Shoot or not to shoot

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algotube
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Shoot or not to shoot

Post by algotube » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:10 pm

Sorry for the novice question............ I have herd and read that when your hunting that you should never shoot a bird without your dog pointing it first...

Well how about if your dog is in-front of you hunting and you see a pheasant and she missed it altogether ...........do you call her back and than shoot it or do you just shoot it and tell the dog to fetch it.....

Or how about when you see birds in trees .............what do you than............ ???????? I would just shoot it and if possible tell the dog to bring it back to you....

Just would like to hear different opinions....

Thank you

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ultracarry
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Re: Shoot or not to shoot

Post by ultracarry » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:39 pm

When I was hunting mine the first season if she was clear out of sight and I saw one I would shoot it. Recover it myself.

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mik
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Re: Shoot or not to shoot

Post by mik » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:47 pm

For me it depends on the age of the dog.....And if you're using a pointing dog or flushing dog...I'll assume pointer....Young dog still learin the ropes I don't shoot.....1 to 2 hunting season in the dog and it misses the bird for whatever reason and the bird goes up..... I'm shootin.....If you could call the dog back or re-route to bring it into the scent cone of the bird you saw that would be best....If you want a pointing dog they have to learn that they are rewarded for that behavior with a shot and hopefully a dead bird to retrieve....Grouse in a tree and the dog is no where near it but you see it, I shoot.....that's me and my opinion :D

codym
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Re: Shoot or not to shoot

Post by codym » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:31 am

The whole idea for me not shooting a bird over a young dog unless it points it is the reward factor. If you have a young dog running around and they bump a bird or miss a bird and you shoot it then they get a reward for an incorrect behavior. My opionion is that I only want a dog to get a bird in it's mouth when it does everything right. If you reward a dog for just running around or bumping birds then it takes them much longer for them to learn they must do things right or they will never get a bird. I have seen several dogs that never became good pointers because thier owner would blast every bird that got up. The dogs never learned to point or handle birds because they never had to. Thats the reason I don't shoot un pointed birds over young dogs.

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Mike50
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Re: Shoot or not to shoot

Post by Mike50 » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:48 am

algotube wrote:Sorry for the novice question............ I have herd and read that when your hunting that you should never shoot a bird without your dog pointing it first...

Well how about if your dog is in-front of you hunting and you see a pheasant and she missed it altogether ...........do you call her back and than shoot it or do you just shoot it and tell the dog to fetch it.....

Or how about when you see birds in trees .............what do you than............ ???????? I would just shoot it and if possible tell the dog to bring it back to you....

Just would like to hear different opinions....

Thank you
If your ground swatting birds and blasting them out of trees. What do you need a dog for they should all be dead after you pull the trigger? The whole point of taking a young dog into the field or woods is expose him to his purpose in life.
For birds on the ground just stop in your tracks and wait for your pup to check in. If the bird stays till he comes around the bird will train your dog for you. Do the same for birds in the trees they'll leave when there's to much commotion going on. It will train your pup to be more diligent in his task. And yes my dog has pointed grouse sitting in trees.

algotube
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Re: Shoot or not to shoot

Post by algotube » Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:19 pm

All excellent replies and will take into consideration when we were out in the field........ hopefully she will be ready this year if not than next year for sure............... thanks again.......

tdhusker
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Re: Shoot or not to shoot

Post by tdhusker » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:47 am

If you are a hunter, shoot the damned bird. If you are a dog trainer/trialer, do whatever you think will be best of rthe dog.

I have yet to see a pointing dog ruined by shooting birds they don't point. Hunt the dog as much as possible, shoot what you can and he'll learn along the way.

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DonF
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Re: Shoot or not to shoot

Post by DonF » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:10 am

Depends on if your a hunter or a dog man. been a lot of time's I've left the guns up and went out to watch the dogs. This past last weekend of chukar season I hunted one day and left the gun up two more. Spent several days down at the John Day, about 15 mi from here, with just the dogs, gun left home.
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!

RayGubernat
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Re: Shoot or not to shoot

Post by RayGubernat » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:34 am

[Algotube -

As has been stated, a lot depends on whether your focus is hunting to fill the bag or hunting to train the dog. Both ways will work, but shooting birds the dog doesn't point will most probably result in a dog that takes longer to get to where you might want their training level to be. If it is well bred, it will very likely get ther, but the path will be longer.

As far as your first question, a passed bird... I would indeed call the dog back into the area and let it hunt it out...for two reasons. First because it may not have entirely "missed'" the bird but ignored a faint scent becasue it wanted to be somewhere else. Second, that is a golden opportunity to work a dog on a bird in a hunting situation where you have a very good idea where the bird is, so you can react quickly and correctly to anything that happens. A third reason could be that it should be a pretty easy shot when the dog does point it.

As far as birds sitting in trees, I don't think that is such a big deal either way. I would whoa the dog, step to the side and in front of the dog, select the choke barrel on my O/U, estimate the distance put the bead the appropriate distance in front of the bird's beak...and take its head off when the bird sticks its head out. THAT my friend, is a plucking bird...no shot in the body. I would not let the dog retrieve, again for two reasons. First, the dog did nothing to deserve the retrieve and second, there ain't no holes in the skin. Why take the chance??

Of course, I would never, ever do such a dastardly thing myself. :P :twisted: :lol:

The way I see it, the bird hunter's life is a continuum and what makes for a great day can and often does change over time. When I was in my teens and twenties I measure my success by the heft of the gamebag. A full gamebag was a good day. I would hunt three to five days a week dr=uring the season, often from dawn to dusk. As I got into my thirties and forties, carrying a brace of pheasants in my gamevest for hours started to lose some of its appeal. When I started hunting with my son in my early forties, my desire to shoot was far less than my desire to watch my son shoot. As time went on, I got less and less enjoyment out of killing birds and more and more enjoyment out of watching the dogwork. In my fifties, I started field trialing and my actual hunting time dropped off. My time messing with the dogs filled that time right back up. Now as I am in my sixties, I still enjoy going afield with the dogs, but I could care less if I shoot something. I want to watch and enjoy the hunt. I have a great deal of fun messing with the dogs and training them for competition.

A hunter's life is a journey. There is no set path and the way you do things depends on what is right for you.

Enjoy the journey. Have fun with your dog.

Sorry for the long winded response.

RayG

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asc
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Re: Shoot or not to shoot

Post by asc » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:19 pm

^^^ not long winded at all but is right on target.
I enjoy watching my friends shoot birds over my dogs. I do hunt but I like watching the dogs.
Good whiskey,good dogs, no BS!

algotube
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Re: Shoot or not to shoot

Post by algotube » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:15 am

Ray,

I always look forward in receiving advice from you either in a private message or on this forum ......... you are right..... things change as you go I can see that in myself............thanks again for your input............. :o

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