Greg I wish you could have met Bill West, you would have liked him.. He was a great friend to me. His way with dogs influenced me and changed my way of thinking about training... Bill was in his 80's and really lived a good life. He was also a good christian, he loved the lord.. I know now he suffers no pain and is in a better place.. Bill encourage people and dogs to be thier very best, he touched alot of people in his life journey and had friends all over the U. S. He was the real deal that's for sure.