Gun Dog Forum

Didn't want to take away from the other thread, looking for opinions on running finished dogs in Amateur Limited stakes. Seems like I see it more in OLGD but what are the thoughts on ALGD?

Sure, why not? There is no rule about where finished dogs may or may not run, but traditionally they are entered in the limited stakes. Now and again someone's chasing DOY or some such, maybe just wants the groundtime or whatever, and enters a finished dog in the 'regular' stakes, you might hear some yelping about it, but it's perfectly 'legal'.

It was explained to me by a pro that as an amateur its up to you where you want to run your own dog limited or not even if they are finished. As a pro they will not run a finished dog in a non limited stake (except AA). As an owner who will be running his dog a month or two this year, I'm running in everything. ALGD would be a great stake to have but the entry for the stake may be low and not be worth the judges time and effort.

shags wrote:Sure, why not? There is no rule about where finished dogs may or may not run, but traditionally they are entered in the limited stakes. Now and again someone's chasing DOY or some such, maybe just wants the groundtime or whatever, and enters a finished dog in the 'regular' stakes, you might hear some yelping about it, but it's perfectly 'legal'.

I seem to recall it was, and may still be the case. In the AKC Vizsla FT world DOY points come only from OLGD unless there is no OLGD offered at the FT.

Not looking for and not even close for DOY or anything like that, just looking for more experience. He is the first dog I've ever run in broke dog stakes and each time down we learn a little more. Figured if we were going to drive 6 or 7 hours to a 3 day trial why not run him in more than 2 stakes but don't want to pi$$ someone off if by chance he won.

It doesn't matter if your Pro or Amatuer,'it is considered bad form to run finished dogs in stakes other than AA or limited stakes. If you Want experience, start scouting and run in limited stakes. You won't be very popular otherwise. ( even though that may not be a concern for you)

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:It doesn't matter if your Pro or Amatuer,'it is considered bad form to run finished dogs in stakes other than AA or limited stakes. If you Want experience, start scouting and run in limited stakes. You won't be very popular otherwise. ( even though that may not be a concern for you)

You may want to reread the title of the post and the question, I was asking about the limited stakes not non-limited. If it wasn't a concern I wouldn't have asked.

Wyndancer wrote:
I seem to recall it was, and may still be the case. In the AKC Vizsla FT world DOY points come only from OLGD unless there is no OLGD offered at the FT.

I believe only OLGD points are used towards Open rankings. Never OGD, even if OLGD is not offered at the trial.

ALGD points are used for Amateur rankings.

There is nothing wrong with running a finished dog in either. Some folks still might not like it, but that's their problem, not yours.

In your second post you mentioned running more than 2 stakes but didn't wanna "pi$$ someone of if you should win. Nobody will get pissed if you enter any Limited stake because that is where finished dogs should run. They do get upset at guys running finished dogs in AGD or OGD though.

Sorry, I didn't word that correctly. He has his AFC, working towards the FC so am running in OGD & OLGD already.

Absolutely. OGD, OLGD and ALGD. Sometimes my light bulb doesn't always come on.lol

I was riding around in the gallery and the subject came up. A fella, who happens to own the top English setter shooting dog in AF was taking a beating from the gallery about the very topic. It was Friday, OLGD, and he wasn't even there to defend himself.

He had a couple finished dogs in OGD, as he was WORKING on Friday, so he was unable to enter the OLGD. The gallery was on fire, a local pro planted the seed.

I took the side of the person not present. "Hey, what's the big deal? It's not like he called the pro and told him to run the dog. He's an amateur, has a job and can't be here on Friday. I get more heartburn when a pro enters a finished dog in OGD, even though it may be at the owners direction, then the amateur owner, who can't be there, running a finished dog in OGD."

Really though, at the end of the day...just win. And a win by a unfinished dog in any stake is nice, more so when the stake is made of finished dogs.

stlgsp wrote:Sorry, I didn't word that correctly. He has his AFC, working towards the FC so am running in OGD & OLGD already.

Run the dog...get the experience, enjoy yourself, enjoy the dog.

I never understood the ire of those who get too up in arms about this stuff; especially if it is a hobby. The Brittany folks can have some major challenges in culture clash between show and field, and the whole point deal with Brittany majors is always an argument...but to qualify a dog for the Nationals you have to win or have placements every year (depending on the stake). That piece does keep the sniping down about who runs what where, and it keeps the National Championship from being watered down with dogs that may not belong.

Peggy when are you going to post your brag for a super successful last weekend?

I run my pointers in whatever darn stake I want.

If it is GSP trial, somebody ain't happy. If it is a vizsla trial, somebody ain't happy. If it is a brittany trial, somebody ain't happy. If it is an AKC pointer trial there may be quite a few people that ain't happy. When a cross registered longtail shows up at an AKC trial, you can bet that someone there is not going to be a happy camper. Why?? Because they know they had better bring their A game or they are gonna get whupped.

Not my problem.

Pays your money and runs your dog. If they can't beat your dog...they need to work harder. if you can't beat theirs, you are the one that needs to work harder.

In American Field trials, especially championships and classics where there are Purina points, you are, very often, going up against multiple champions and not just one dog, but several. The level of competition can be positively intimidating because of the quality of the dogs and handlers in the stake. However, if you came prepared and your dog has what it takes...it can be done.

Losers whine and complain and look for ways to minimize or eliminate the competition. Winners don't complain. When they get beat, they go home and work harder.

RayG

Ray
That is a great post!!!
I have come to realize and just my observation... Seems that someone always has something to say . I ran a dog in AGD that was finished last year( SALLY). We traveled 10 hours to a trial one way, so I figured why not run what we brought. She beat out her own daughter(Raven), which needed the points. Raven took second. I was approached by a pro asking why would I run a finished dog in a non-limited stake. I put a brag up on here( this forum) stating that we had a great weekend. We took home 3 blues and a red. I was then questioned on this forum on why I would brag about a win with a finished dog....
Seems to me the very same people who questioned and made comments are doing the same thing now. Running finished dogs in non-limited stakes. I dont hold it against them at all, however it does tell you a little bit about those individuals that change the rules as it accomodates their situation.

In the GSP breed if you are going for Amateur rankings for DOY, you need to run AGD as well as ALGD. Open offers OLGD as well as OGD, but in amateur it is lumped into one, so someone trying to achieve this ranking would not be able to once the dog was finished, if you abided by this "UNWRITTEN RULE" or EDIQUETTE...
I guess what I want to say is RUN WHAT YOU GOT . Why would you water down a title by keeping quality dogs out of the competition.
So to answer your question there is no UNWRITTEN rule against running your AFC in ALGD. Have fun and make it worth your trip!!!
Jen

Pros want to have a place to separate their finished dogs from the unfinished ones - they get paid to finish dogs and win. They can't finish dogs if the better ones are still running. For the rest of the folks - run what ya brung and hope you can win some. If you don't/can't I hope you can at least have fun trying. Anyone who complains is simply that - a whiner and complainer and not a competitor. Watering the competition simply makes for lessor quality dogs.

Didn't want to take away from the other thread, looking for opinions on running finished dogs in Amateur Limited stakes.

Run 'em in whatever you want. If you as a handler need experience then put 'em in every stake they're qualified to run in - it's about you, not about dogs at that point and completely understandable/acceptable. If you win, then great, you're learning how to win!! It's a competition to evaluate for top dogs for hellsakes, not a competition to find the top dog minus the real top dogs!! What the hellz that prove?? I totally understand where a professional comes from, or even an amateur trying to finish multiple dogs, gaming the system so to speak, but then you really just gotta take the title for what it is...or maybe more appropriately what it ain't. It is largely why most folks consider an AKC FC/AFC "merely" a jumping off point to really go accomplish something. I think the basic premise of the system is fantastic - a dog is theoretically required to earn enough points, ideally at different venues, ideally under the eyes of different judges, ideally against a significantly different set of dogs, ideally against any dog regardless of prior accomplishments, to the extent of satisfying/acruing a number of total points deemed Field Champion. Freakin' beautiful...except when it gets manipulated/manufactured/monkeyed with...then it is what it is. Could mean greatness, could mean little to nothing.

When a cross registered longtail shows up at an AKC trial, you can bet that someone there is not going to be a happy camper. Why?? Because they know they had better bring their A game or they are gonna get whupped.

When a cross registered GSP shows up an at AF championship you can bet that someone there is not going to be a happy camper. Why?? Because they know they had better bring their A game or they are gonna get whupped...again!!

What's the web address for the American Field trials homepage?

Thanks everyone for the replies, good food for thought.

Andy, for the brag and a laugh - This past weekend he placed first in OLGD & OGD. Sunday he was a bit pumped with the cool temps and lasted about 2 minutes into ALGD when he made a nice stop to flush, watched the birds fly off to the right but dove into the cover on the left before I could get my gun out the holster Guess we won't make anyone mad if we can't even make it around...