Retrieving and Backing, From Hunters' Perspectives

[Stoneface]

For you hunters out there, not talking in context of trialing or testing, how important is retrieving and backing to you? I mean, if you had a dog that wasn't fond of retrieving or backing (force fetching aside), would that be a dog you gave to the farmer down the road or would you not care as long as he found the birds?

On a kindly similar note, how far does natural backing and retrieving go with you? I mean, does it carry much weight if a dog loves to fetch and throws up a back the first time he sees a dog on point?

[campgsp]

For retrieve definitely important. What if you're out and you shoot a bird that lands in the water how are you supposed to get it. Or it lands in the thickest of cover how are you going to find it without ruining a half hour of a hunt. Anything can happen. Plus that's part of the joy of having a dog to hunt over. He finds the birds and I shoot them he brings them back less work for me.

Backing depends. But since we are just talking hunting testing aside. If you hunt with two dogs yes. Having a dog steal anothers point can spook a bird into a wild flush. But if its just one dog you're constantly going to be hunting with. Then not so important.

Natural backing and retrieve is nice makes training easier. My past litter are all natural. So I know from experience.

That just my opinion on things though.

[Meller]

Both are important to me; I hunt with friend's and don't want my dog steeling any points or messing any body's dog up while on point by flushing thier birds.
As far as retrieving, well thats the icing on the cake, the finish to a job well done.
Both of these can be tought, but I prefer it to be bread in them, my dogs had this bread in them, to do both naturally.

[cjhills]

A dog that doesn't retrieve is worse than useless to me. Pheasant hunters without retievers lose 25% or more of the birds they shoot. Backing is extremely important when you hunt multiple dogs, it keeps the dog from busting other dogs birds,makes it easier to find the pointing dog and is the most beautiful part of running pointing dogs.
Natural is best especially in the honor. trained honors don't seemed to get the reining horse sliding stop like natural dogs do. I like natural retrieve, but it is not as important. CJ

[Ruffshooter]

Retrieving and backing both are important.

It is very difficult to find a dead Ruff that you shoot out of the sky. They blend in with the ground to well. Need the retrieve.
Honoring is important only if you hunt multiple dogs, (I guess that was a stupid comment. ) But the honor when I hunt two dogs need not be perfect. As long as they stop. If I see them and I can just whoa them up then that is okay.

[jimbo&rooster]

I wont have a dog that wont retrieve. Plain and simple..... I dont mind to FF one to clean up or polish a natural retrieve, but any dog that shows no inclination to retrieve after a year is gone.

As far as backing goes, it was something that never really mattered to me one way or another, until I hunted with a couple of dogs that did it. Like was mentioned before, I dont look for a hunting dog to back with any kind of style or beauty as long as it doesnt run over the pointing dog to steal point or bump the bird.

And I dont want one that will steal a retrieve either.

Jim

[3Britts]

I too like my dogs to back and retrieve.

That being said. I wouldn't send a good hunting dog down the road if it stole point, as long as it didn't steal the retrieve. The dog that finds the bird first should always get the retrieve unless it refuses to do so.

[slistoe]

Unless you are hunting where there is water, finding the dead birds is what is important. I have only owned one dog that wouldn't retrieve but it was a small thing when the dog would find the birds and stand on them till I got there to pick it up. I have never trained a Brittany for formal retrieving - they just pick up birds and bring them to me when I call them.

[Trekmoor]

I want my dogs to be very keen natural retrievers but I add a lot of work on dummies on top of that natural retrieve. I like to able to handle a dog onto a retrieve if I have to, without having to walk out to the fall area to control my dog. I would not keep a dog more than a couple of months unless it really wanted to retrieve.

I like natural backers too and so far my own dogs have all been natural backers. A couple did it right away a few more needed a bit of encouragement from me but all of them backed eventually. I don't value backing as high as I do retrieving for I could stop a non backing dog by voice or whistle if I had to.

Bill T.

[RayGubernat]

Unless you are hunting where there is water, finding the dead birds is what is important. I have only owned one dog that wouldn't retrieve but it was a small thing when the dog would find the birds and stand on them till I got there to pick it up. I have never trained a Brittany for formal retrieving - they just pick up birds and bring them to me when I call them.

That is exactly how I feel. I hate losing dead and wounded birds. I insist that my dogs hunt dead until the bird is found, or I decide to continue the hunt. The dog does not have any part of that decision process. It hunts dead untilthe bird is found, or until i say it is time to go.

If the dog points the dead bird, I am fine with that. I had one that would not retrieve but would point dead like a champ. On the very few occasions where a dog refused to enter water(pointers are not the most willing cold water retrievers out there), or where the bird was down in a swamp and the dog was pointing dead... we got it done, one way or another. Just another reason to hunt with a brace of dogs. I never had two at the same time that would not retrieve.

As far as backing is concerned, when I was hunting I let the dogs sort that stuff out themselves if possible. Usually a younger dog will try to steal point on an older campaigner...but usually only once. If the youngster gets a whuppin' from the older dog, as happened with a few dogs, it generally respected the older dog's points from then on. If not...that is what e-collars are for.

RayG

[orbirdhunter]

From a hunting standpoint i want the dog to pickup the bird and at least bring it close to me....Recovery of game is of paramount importance. I won't own a dog that won't naturally at least find the downed bird and get it to where i can recover it, period.
Backing is nice, but not a deal breaker for me as a pure hunting dog...

[Fester]

I hunt 2 dogs so backing is a must, having said that I hate a dog that hangs on a fertilize sack at the end of the field until you go get him, retrieve is a must as well I hate swimming
Fester

[birddogger]

That is exactly how I feel. I hate losing dead and wounded birds. I insist that my dogs hunt dead until the bird is found, or I decide to continue the hunt. The dog does not have any part of that decision process. It hunts dead untilthe bird is found, or until i say it is time to go.

Ray, how do you keep your dog in the area until the bird is found?? Just curious because I know it can sometimes take some work and time for a dog to find a dead bird, especially if it is buried in some nasty stuff or just crippled and running.

Thanks,
Charlie

[RayGubernat]

Charlie -

I start on hunting dead in the yard with puppies. I drop a small handful of puppy milkbone type treats in the grass and call the puppy over then tell them "hunt dead" until every single morsel is found and eaten. I will do this with a dog until it is fairly well grown. As the dog gets older they get hungrier for those treats and really search them out with urgency(especially if there are other dogs in the area doing the same thing).

I found that this transfers pretty well to the field and the enthusiasm level stays pretty high.

As for how to keep the dog in the area...they learn right away that they don't go anywhere until that bird is found. If they attempt to head off, I call them in, right to my feet and order "hunt dead". If they stand there or just mill around, I may just sit down in the field and wait. I might put the dog at heel and walk it around commanding "heel...hunt dead!"

I am convinced that most of my dogs would almost always prefer to head out and find another bird, rather than casting about and snuffling around for a dead or wounded one. They learn that is not one of the choices. They learn that they are going to be stuck there until they find me that bird, even if it takes an hour.

The funny thing is, once I convince them that they ain't gonna go nowhere until they produce a bird, the rotten SOB's usually find the downed birds pretty darn fast so they can get back to what they really enjoy.

To be honest, most of my dogs have been fairly good about hunting dead over the years. However, there were a couple that needed convincing that my way was the way it was going to be.


RayG

[birddogger]

Thanks Ray, I appreciate it.

Charlie

[cjhills]

From a hunting standpoint i want the dog to pickup the bird and at least bring it close to me....Recovery of game is of paramount importance. I won't own a dog that won't naturally at least find the downed bird and get it to where i can recover it, period.
Backing is nice, but not a deal breaker for me as a pure hunting dog...

If the dog don't back what does it do. I guess one could probably live with it going off and hunting elsewhere, but more likely it steals the point or accidentally or intentionally busts the bird. That is definitely a deal breaker. If you hunt more than one dog they need to back.When I give it some thought maybe a dog that won't honor is worse than one that won't retreive. I have no use for either, and see no reason for either. CJ

[slistoe]

[I guess one could probably live with it going off and hunting elsewhere,

The only one I ever owned that wouldn't back would do just that. I got used to it because it didn't make busted birds and often made more birds for the gun - but I was never able to finish her FC.

[slistoe]

Backing is nice, but not a deal breaker for me as a pure hunting dog...

If you are hunting 2 dogs, backing is pretty much essential.

[ezzy333]

Unless you are hunting where there is water, finding the dead birds is what is important. I have only owned one dog that wouldn't retrieve but it was a small thing when the dog would find the birds and stand on them till I got there to pick it up. I have never trained a Brittany for formal retrieving - they just pick up birds and bring them to me when I call them.

Right on!!!

[Ron R]

I have/had two real nice dogs that hated to back. Both of them would blow by and look them off. I would do many drills where I would hit them with the collar first (fairly high) and then say whoa. So at best they were about 75% true and I will say that they were two of the nicest dogs that I've owned. From my experience (with english pointers) hunting dead seems to come more natural.

Why not add some pics,