BDC question??

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Re: BDC question??

Post by Cajun Casey » Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:06 pm

KwikIrish wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote: Volunteering to work the ISCA NWFT in March? :D
Hope to have my girl ready too, but always there to lend a hand. See you there?
God, I hope not, but I may run out of excuses. :D

Getting together some raffle items, you know, to raise money for therapy for those misguided delusional rehead owners. :D
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Re: BDC question??

Post by romeo212000 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:49 am

ezzy333 wrote:
romeo212000 wrote:I don't necessarily disagree with anything you've said and I've acknowledged that there are almost certainly some good dogs in those venues. However, if you can honestly tell me you believe that a format that makes no attempt to judge quality of work in any way is a good venue for proving quality dogs you're not nearly as knowledgeable as I thought you were.
What is your definition of quality work and how is it judged?

Ezzy
I'll break down different pieces of work. Most of this is also taken from the nstra rule book, but I find it to be a good list of expectations.

Find:
The judging of the find should begin when the dog makes game. Not just when it establishes point.

Desirable factors: if a dog does any of these exceptionally well the judge should reflect that in their scoring of the work.
Exceptional style
Exceptional intensity, even through a long flushing attempt
Remains steady regardless of interference or pressure from other dogs
Remains steady on walking birds
Hits point hard
Works scent intelligently
Remains steady throughout the flush

Undesireable factors: if a dog does any of these during the find it should be reflected appropriately in their scoring depending on the severity of the infraction. All these should cause the dog's work to be scored down, but keep in mind some infractions and their severity are worse than others.

Flagging
Lacking intensity
Creeping (should be cut hard as a dog creeping after establishing point is greedy)
Laying down (also should be cut hard)
Re locating on its own (also should be cut hard)
Continuing to road in on the scent after it has a good location on the bird

The retrieve:

Desirable factors:
Marks downed birds well if view is not obstructed and locates the bird quickly
Quick pick up
Blind retrieve
Water retrieve
Snappy return to handler
Direct path to handler
Easy release to handler
Tender mouth

Undesirable factors:
Poor mark if view is unobstructed
Slow pick up
Hard mouth
Indirect return
Unwilling release
Dropping bird on way back to handler

Back: begins when the dog has an opportunity to see the pointing dog

Desirable factors:
Backs immediately upon seeing pointing dog
Exceptional style and intensity
Remains intense until held so pointing dog can complete the retrieve.

Undesirable factors:
Lacks intensity
Lays down
Roads in after seeing dog

Ground coverage:

Desirable factors:
Quick and thorough search for birds
Works the field intelligently with sharp classy movements
Covers entire field with speed and enthusiasm, leaving no patch unchecked
Remains in field during the entire brace

Negative factors:
Pottering with ground scent
Excessive marking
Ground racing or running and not hunting
Spending time out of bounds
Lacking enthusiasm

Obedience:

Desirable factors:
Displays immediate response to handlers commands
Calls off of marked birds or safety birds easily
Turns sharply on command

Undesirable factors:
Ignoring handler
Trying to stay away from handler
Refusal to call off marked birds or safety birds
Delayed response to commands


I'm not saying this is an all inclusive list by any means, but it does take into account multiple aspects of what separates quality work from average or shoddy work and therefore dogs, and should be taken into consideration if a format is to be considered a legitimate proving ground. Bdc and like formats simply do not and that cannot be argued.

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Re: BDC question??

Post by smoothbean » Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:55 pm

Romeo can't you give your own opinoin with your vast wealth of knowledge? Don't you have any other knowledge besides what teh NSTRA rule book says??

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Re: BDC question??

Post by romeo212000 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:35 pm

smoothbean wrote:Romeo can't you give your own opinoin with your vast wealth of knowledge? Don't you have any other knowledge besides what teh NSTRA rule book says??
I feel like the nstra rules give a pretty good example what quality dog work is. Seeing as how nstra rules and my feelings agree on what quality dog work is it seemed better to use their organized format than for me to write a paragraph that might be harder to understand. I did however, add a couple of my own things to the list. Just because I agree with what nstra has determined to be quality work doesn't mean I'm not knowledgeable on the matter.

But alas that wasn't the point of your post as you've made yet another snippy post in an attempt to distract from that fact that you've been shown to be wrong yet again, and that your format in fact does not make ANY attempt to judge quality of work in any way. Therefore, it is not a valid proving ground to distinguish and evaluate dogs and their lines.

Nice try though. Your flailing attempt to distract from your being shown up are getting sad though.

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Re: BDC question??

Post by birddog1968 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:40 pm

The one quagmire in the nstra guidlines that gets me is "a dog must hit point hard" but yet "work scent intelligently" and creeping is greedy LOL......someone work all that out for me..... :lol:

Ever see someones dog hit scent from a distance, turn to work scent intellegently but have a judge call point on the dog and say its creeping :lol:
Last edited by birddog1968 on Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BDC question??

Post by Winchey » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:42 pm

birddog1968 wrote:The one quagmire in the nstra guidlines that gets me is "a dog must hit point hard" but yet "work scent intelligently" and creeping is greedy LOL......someone work all that out for me..... :lol:
You forgot not relocate on their own.

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Re: BDC question??

Post by romeo212000 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:50 pm

birddog1968 wrote:The one quagmire in the nstra guidlines that gets me is "a dog must hit point hard" but yet "work scent intelligently" and creeping is greedy LOL......someone work all that out for me..... :lol:
It says hitting point hard is worthy of an increased score. Not that it must. You know, where a dog is running cross wind at full bore, hits scent hard spins and skids to a stop while never losing intensity. Not that a dog that turns and works scent intelligently should receive a downgrade, but slamming a point should receive an upgrade.

Also, there's a difference between working scent intelligently and roading in. A dog is roading in when it has essentially established point without stopping and should have stopped, but is essentially roading up to the bird because it is greedy and wants to get closer.

Creeping is another matter entirely where a dog has established point, stopped and is advancing towards the bird or "creeping". This is another example of a greedy dog and the work should be differentiated from dogs that do not do this.

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Re: BDC question??

Post by romeo212000 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:51 pm

Winchey wrote:
birddog1968 wrote:The one quagmire in the nstra guidlines that gets me is "a dog must hit point hard" but yet "work scent intelligently" and creeping is greedy LOL......someone work all that out for me..... :lol:
You forgot not relocate on their own.
Oh really? What's your point of contention there?

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Re: BDC question??

Post by Winchey » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:57 pm

I would rather a dog relocate on his own on running birds rather then continualy have non products. Relocate is good work imo and any trial I have been to doesen't penalize it so long as the handler hasn't stepped infront of the dog.

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Re: BDC question??

Post by romeo212000 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:04 pm

Winchey wrote:I would rather a dog relocate on his own on running birds rather then continualy have non products. Relocate is good work imo and any trial I have been to doesen't penalize it so long as the handler hasn't stepped infront of the dog.
That's a difference of opinion, but the idea is that the dog should only relocate in command and shouldn't relocate due to a long flushing attempt. To me this is a sign of an unbroken dog, and I haven't seen an issue with non-productives in nstra trials. It's also worth mentioning that non-productives are not penalized in nstra. What I've actually seen more is a dog losing a find altogether because it is in motion when the bird pops from the pressure of the dog moving around it during relocation.

I could see arguments both ways, and its something I could concede as a less important issue in the grand scheme of things. However, personally I don't want my dogs relocating on their own.

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Re: BDC question??

Post by Winchey » Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:09 pm

They are picked up in the trials I go to if they relocate during a flushing attempt. My point is if you aren't there why would you want your dog standing there when the birds gone. Non products aren't penalized either, well sort of, but to many and your not going to win a big trial.

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Re: BDC question??

Post by romeo212000 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:14 pm

Winchey wrote:They are picked up in the trials I go to if they relocate during a flushing attempt. My point is if you aren't there why would you want your dog standing there when the birds gone. Non products aren't penalized either, well sort of, but to many and your not going to win a big trial.
Like I said. It's something I could see argued both ways. Standards for that game say that a dog on point should remain on point until told to relocate by its handler. It is what it is, but I can see where you're coming from.

The issue is the judge would have to determine whether the dog is relocating because the bird has walked away, or if it is relocating because it is greedy. That may be the reason for the rule was to take that judgement process out of the equation to avoid dogs getting slighted because of incorrect judgement on something like that.

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Re: BDC question??

Post by smoothbean » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:41 pm

A dog that's got smarts will move on it's own. WHy would they stay and point nothing. Just what I want, to go hunting and get to the dog that is on point to have nothing there when I get there. Waist of time for a dog to be standing there pointing grass.

Unfortunately Romeo you are proving nothing other than you know what the NSTRA rule book says. You obviously have very little knowledge of any other birddog subjects if they do not pertain to a NSTRA trial. I am sure that you are a true bird dog man though.

I have nothing against NSTRA and have had some good times at those trials but it is not the only thing to do with bird dogs. Maybe you should try hunting sometime. It is kind of fun but I don't know where you can get a Hunting Dog Rule book that tells what the dog should do when hunting.

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Re: BDC question??

Post by romeo212000 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:10 pm

smoothbean wrote:A dog that's got smarts will move on it's own. WHy would they stay and point nothing. Just what I want, to go hunting and get to the dog that is on point to have nothing there when I get there. Waist of time for a dog to be standing there pointing grass.

Unfortunately Romeo you are proving nothing other than you know what the NSTRA rule book says. You obviously have very little knowledge of any other birddog subjects if they do not pertain to a NSTRA trial. I am sure that you are a true bird dog man though.

I have nothing against NSTRA and have had some good times at those trials but it is not the only thing to do with bird dogs. Maybe you should try hunting sometime. It is kind of fun but I don't know where you can get a Hunting Dog Rule book that tells what the dog should do when hunting.
Buddy. I've proven I know far more than you. You've been looking for something this entire thread to pick apart and this is the best you can do? I've already acknowledged I can see the argument either way on that, but you didn't read that did you? The fact of the matter is that one little tid bit doesnt hurt my argument one bit. You were just so excited you thought you found something, but you've only succeeded in making a bigger fool of yourself.

And I hunt plenty son. Trust me. All wild birds too, and I'll put my best wild bird dog up against yours anytime.

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Re: BDC question??

Post by DGFavor » Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:02 pm

I'll put my best wild bird dog up against yours anytime
Now yer talkin'!! There are sanctioned, organized, judged "for quality dog work", competitive venues that you can certainly come do just that. Be glad to direct ya' to the premiums. :wink:

Reg. 9 Am. SD Ch - sharptail:
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Idaho Open SD Ch - sharptails:
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Reg. 14 Am. SD Ch - sharptail:
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Reg. 11 Am. AA Ch - Cali's:
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Montana SD Ch - phez:
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Cascade Open AA Ch - hungarians:
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Nat'l Am Chukar SD Ch - sage hens:
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U.S. Open Chicken Ch - phez:
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All American Ch - chickens:
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The venue folks look to to get dogs for their venues. Just add a shotgun and you'd be huntin'. :wink: :lol:
Being a feller that has tried every one of them I can tell ya there is fun and crap in each!
I ain't seen ya' at any of these!! :lol: :lol:

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Re: BDC question??

Post by smoothbean » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:32 am

I could say the same friend. Problem is with all the politics and good buddy clubs in those games what kind of chance do you think an outssider will have? Haven't seen you at my neck of the woods either. You wouldn''t have the good buddy barrier to break through there so it would be a fair for you. If the events are so easy that we run in you should be able to beat us for fun. I too will "AGAIN" galdly give you some events that you could go to to beat us for fun and make alot of money. I think that there will be between 250 to 300 entries at our National FInals. That would be easy pickn's for you guys with good dogs. Come on down.

I think everyone has seen those guys at the trials that has a dog that could beat any of the dogs there. Funny thing when they never bring a dog around.

This is turning into to big of a pi$$'n match that is highly unproductive. Too bad some people are some on sided and can't see the forrest through the trees.

Nice chatting with you fellows

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Re: BDC question??

Post by romeo212000 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:52 am

smoothbean wrote:I could say the same friend. Problem is with all the politics and good buddy clubs in those games what kind of chance do you think an outssider will have? Haven't seen you at my neck of the woods either. You wouldn''t have the good buddy barrier to break through there so it would be a fair for you. If the events are so easy that we run in you should be able to beat us for fun. I too will "AGAIN" galdly give you some events that you could go to to beat us for fun and make alot of money. I think that there will be between 250 to 300 entries at our National FInals. That would be easy pickn's for you guys with good dogs. Come on down.

I think everyone has seen those guys at the trials that has a dog that could beat any of the dogs there. Funny thing when they never bring a dog around.

This is turning into to big of a pi$$'n match that is highly unproductive. Too bad some people are some on sided and can't see the forrest through the trees.

Nice chatting with you fellows
I hope this buddy system you're complaining about isn't in reference to nstra. If you come run in a nstra trial and your dog finds enough birds and does good enough work you'll place. It's pretty simple.

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Re: BDC question??

Post by DonF » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:35 pm

"bleep" Doug, you must have a good camera! Don't ya just hate hearing that? lol I think that something that is very true is that any dog that can compete in broke dog formats, can compete in formats like NSTRA. And while there are some dogs in formats like NSTRA that might, might, be able to compete in broke dog formats, the vast majority of them can't! With many I am sure it's nothing more than training. Other's just don't have the run weather from lack of desire or lack of ability. I don't know that one format is really better than the other but one certainly require's a much higher degree of training and dogs that can't take that training will wash out.
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Re: BDC question??

Post by romeo212000 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:52 pm

DonF wrote:"bleep" Doug, you must have a good camera! Don't ya just hate hearing that? lol I think that something that is very true is that any dog that can compete in broke dog formats, can compete in formats like NSTRA. And while there are some dogs in formats like NSTRA that might, might, be able to compete in broke dog formats, the vast majority of them can't! With many I am sure it's nothing more than training. Other's just don't have the run weather from lack of desire or lack of ability. I don't know that one format is really better than the other but one certainly require's a much higher degree of training and dogs that can't take that training will wash out.
I think you severely underestimate the amount of training it takes to keep a nstra dog broke and run for a long career. Those dogs have to handle so much pressure that a lot of them wash out.

I can see your point about the nstra venue not showcasing enough run needed for horseback. As others have stated I'd say plenty of them could, but its just a matter of what they were trained to do. Nstra is designed to produce a different kind of dog, more for foot hunters.

However, I can see where you'd say you'd have a hard time judging whether you'd be interested in a nstra dog for a horse back dog because the format doesn't showcase enough run for your format. It reasonable to say you'd have to see that dog in person to see if its going to have the run you would want.

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Re: BDC question??

Post by DonF » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:42 pm

I don't underestimate it at all. I ran two broke dog's in NSTRA. And it is simply another format but I would not say that is for another kind of dog, just a dog trained to a lesser standard. which is not necessarily bad. If you take an untrained dog and train it, there is a lot you can do. On the way up to the broke dog is the unbroke dog that works well as a hunting dog. NSTRA is obviously avoiding the broke dog for a broke dog will not get you one more point. a dog that does not retrieve until sent will not get you one more point and the broke dog has a lot more pressure on it than an unbroken dog. None of this is good or bad but simply the way things are. There are a lot of gun dogs that can come play NSTRA with no more training at all. There are few if any NSTRA dogs that could do the same. Please remember I have done both and like both but I also recognize the finished dog as the better dog. I would like to see what would happen in NSTRA if every brace had the same amount of birds on the ground. Say only re-plant the field with the number of birds that the last brace took out. Nobody likes the first and second brace. By the fourth or fifth, the field is loaded and it's no indication of one dogs ability to find more birds than a dog than ran an early brace with far less birds in the field.
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Re: BDC question??

Post by slistoe » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:43 pm

romeo212000 wrote:Nstra is designed to produce a different kind of dog, more for foot hunters.
This is the ultimate in stupid comments that keeps being bandied about in these types of threads. Every single person I ever knew and still know that was/is competitive in Amateur Horseback trials hunted with their dogs and NONE of them hunted from horse - they all hunted from foot. So if those folks are not foot hunters, then :?: :evil:

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Re: BDC question??

Post by romeo212000 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:53 pm

DonF wrote:I don't underestimate it at all. I ran two broke dog's in NSTRA. And it is simply another format but I would not say that is for another kind of dog, just a dog trained to a lesser standard. which is not necessarily bad. If you take an untrained dog and train it, there is a lot you can do. On the way up to the broke dog is the unbroke dog that works well as a hunting dog. NSTRA is obviously avoiding the broke dog for a broke dog will not get you one more point. a dog that does not retrieve until sent will not get you one more point and the broke dog has a lot more pressure on it than an unbroken dog. None of this is good or bad but simply the way things are. There are a lot of gun dogs that can come play NSTRA with no more training at all. There are few if any NSTRA dogs that could do the same. Please remember I have done both and like both but I also recognize the finished dog as the better dog. I would like to see what would happen in NSTRA if every brace had the same amount of birds on the ground. Say only re-plant the field with the number of birds that the last brace took out. Nobody likes the first and second brace. By the fourth or fifth, the field is loaded and it's no indication of one dogs ability to find more birds than a dog than ran an early brace with far less birds in the field.
Good post with some valid points. I don't agree 100% with all of them, but that's ok. We could discuss that amicably some other time over a beer.

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Re: BDC question??

Post by romeo212000 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:54 pm

DonF wrote:"bleep" Doug, you must have a good camera! Don't ya just hate hearing that? lol I think that something that is very true is that any dog that can compete in broke dog formats, can compete in formats like NSTRA. And while there are some dogs in formats like NSTRA that might, might, be able to compete in broke dog formats, the vast majority of them can't! With many I am sure it's nothing more than training. Other's just don't have the run weather from lack of desire or lack of ability. I don't know that one format is really better than the other but one certainly require's a much higher degree of training and dogs that can't take that training will wash out.
My point is your average foot hunter isn't looking for dogs that make 1/2 mile casts.

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Re: BDC question??

Post by DonF » Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:00 pm

slistoe wrote:
romeo212000 wrote:Nstra is designed to produce a different kind of dog, more for foot hunters.
This is the ultimate in stupid comments that keeps being bandied about in these types of threads. Every single person I ever knew and still know that was/is competitive in Amateur Horseback trials hunted with their dogs and NONE of them hunted from horse - they all hunted from foot. So if those folks are not foot hunters, then :?: :evil:
Your a hard man! lol I do know of a very successful AKC trialer that has never hunted a wild bird in his life, or so he say's. That takes in over 30 yrs of trialing. I also know a very successful NSTRA trialer that by his admission has never hunted a wild bird in his life. He told me at a trial years ago that the trial season was his hunting season, he didn't hunt wild birds. Some of you might know the AKC guy and I'd bet over 90% of you know of the NSTRA guy. As for AKC guy's that do hunt wild birds, I know of none that do so from horseback. I have hunted really big running dogs from horse but only because otherwise i'd never keep up with them.
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Re: BDC question??

Post by nikegundog » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:58 pm

DonF wrote:I don't underestimate it at all. I ran two broke dog's in NSTRA. And it is simply another format but I would not say that is for another kind of dog, just a dog trained to a lesser standard. which is not necessarily bad. If you take an untrained dog and train it, there is a lot you can do. On the way up to the broke dog is the unbroke dog that works well as a hunting dog. NSTRA is obviously avoiding the broke dog for a broke dog will not get you one more point. a dog that does not retrieve until sent will not get you one more point and the broke dog has a lot more pressure on it than an unbroken dog. None of this is good or bad but simply the way things are. There are a lot of gun dogs that can come play NSTRA with no more training at all. There are few if any NSTRA dogs that could do the same. Please remember I have done both and like both but I also recognize the finished dog as the better dog. I would like to see what would happen in NSTRA if every brace had the same amount of birds on the ground. Say only re-plant the field with the number of birds that the last brace took out. Nobody likes the first and second brace. By the fourth or fifth, the field is loaded and it's no indication of one dogs ability to find more birds than a dog than ran an early brace with far less birds in the field.
Keep in find Don, Romeo has been a dog owner for 4 years now, he's seen it all and done it all. :D

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Re: BDC question??

Post by nikegundog » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:55 pm

romeo212000 wrote:
nikegundog wrote:
DonF wrote:I don't underestimate it at all. I ran two broke dog's in NSTRA. And it is simply another format but I would not say that is for another kind of dog, just a dog trained to a lesser standard. which is not necessarily bad. If you take an untrained dog and train it, there is a lot you can do. On the way up to the broke dog is the unbroke dog that works well as a hunting dog. NSTRA is obviously avoiding the broke dog for a broke dog will not get you one more point. a dog that does not retrieve until sent will not get you one more point and the broke dog has a lot more pressure on it than an unbroken dog. None of this is good or bad but simply the way things are. There are a lot of gun dogs that can come play NSTRA with no more training at all. There are few if any NSTRA dogs that could do the same. Please remember I have done both and like both but I also recognize the finished dog as the better dog. I would like to see what would happen in NSTRA if every brace had the same amount of birds on the ground. Say only re-plant the field with the number of birds that the last brace took out. Nobody likes the first and second brace. By the fourth or fifth, the field is loaded and it's no indication of one dogs ability to find more birds than a dog than ran an early brace with far less birds in the field.
Keep in find Don, Romeo has been a dog owner for 4 years now, he's seen it all and done it all. :D
Do you have any idea how pathetic you look right now? You can't contribute one bit of substance to this thread, so just stop posting.
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Re: BDC question??

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:57 pm

nikegundog wrote:Keep in find Don, Romeo has been a dog owner for 4 years now, he's seen it all and done it all.
Hmmmm, maybe.....that was in dog years?

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Re: BDC question??

Post by V-John » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:22 am

romeo212000 wrote:
My point is your average foot hunter isn't looking for dogs that make 1/2 mile casts.
Don't you think that dogs know the difference between a trial and hunting?

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Re: BDC question??

Post by romeo212000 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:45 am

V-John wrote:
romeo212000 wrote:
My point is your average foot hunter isn't looking for dogs that make 1/2 mile casts.
Don't you think that dogs know the difference between a trial and hunting?
I don't disagree, but that's not what a horseback trial showcases.

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Re: BDC question??

Post by bb560m » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:59 am

V-John wrote:
romeo212000 wrote:
My point is your average foot hunter isn't looking for dogs that make 1/2 mile casts.
Don't you think that dogs know the difference between a trial and hunting?
I think it depends on the cover more so than trialing vs. hunting.

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Re: BDC question??

Post by V-John » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:22 am

I can tell you that my dogs, know the difference between a trial and a hunting trip.
RIght when I pull up, not when they are on the ground. The horses, all of the different dogs, there is a bit of an excitement in the air, much different atmosphere, and I think that they recognize that.

Some may think I'm anthromorphizing, but not in this case.

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Re: BDC question??

Post by slistoe » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:25 am

romeo212000 wrote:
V-John wrote:
romeo212000 wrote:
My point is your average foot hunter isn't looking for dogs that make 1/2 mile casts.
Don't you think that dogs know the difference between a trial and hunting?
I don't disagree, but that's not what a horseback trial showcases.
A horseback trial showcases those inherent qualities that are the underlying backbone of a high class pointing dog. The willingness to get out and search for game being one of them.

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Re: BDC question??

Post by romeo212000 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:59 am

slistoe wrote:
romeo212000 wrote:
V-John wrote:
Don't you think that dogs know the difference between a trial and hunting?
I don't disagree, but that's not what a horseback trial showcases.
A horseback trial showcases those inherent qualities that are the underlying backbone of a high class pointing dog. The willingness to get out and search for game being one of them.
Again, I don't disagree with any of that.

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Re: BDC question??

Post by romeo212000 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:02 am

V-John wrote:I can tell you that my dogs, know the difference between a trial and a hunting trip.
RIght when I pull up, not when they are on the ground. The horses, all of the different dogs, there is a bit of an excitement in the air, much different atmosphere, and I think that they recognize that.

Some may think I'm anthromorphizing, but not in this case.
I don't doubt that one bit. I believe mine also know the difference.

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northern cajun
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Re: BDC question??

Post by northern cajun » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:13 am

ultracarry wrote:I hunt chukar, quail, and ducks with Kimber.

We play horseback field trials, AKC hunt tests, and train with the president of the inland empire NAVHDA and a few other members on occasion.

Why do you ask?

I also use her as a guide dog at a hunt club and use her at youth hunts hosted by the DFG and Quail unlimited.

What kind of duck search does Kimber have??
HAVE A GREAT DAY!!
GOD BLESS

DOGS COULDNT LIVE WITHOUT EM!!
NORTHERN CAJUN

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ultracarry
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Re: BDC question??

Post by ultracarry » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:28 am

We don't practice a "duck search" all the hunting out here is off of preserves with pretty clean shores and a few tulies, not really your duck searching type terrain.

Now her water retrieves she will go arse over elbows jumping in and getting it.

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