Gun Dog Forum

So my wife and I are trying to make a decision on what to do with our older dog. We had an incident with him yesterday when my brother in-laws neice and nephew wanted to come over and see our dogs. My 7 month old GSP is an absolute angel around people and kids, but for some reason my 2 and a half year old male mix dog has had a couple of incidents nipping at little kids. We got him from the pound when he was about 6 months old, so I dont know if that has anything to do with the reason why he gets so wierd around them or what, but yesterday when they came over, he was sitting on the ground and their 2 year old boy went over and sat by him and pet him. i noticed he started getting a really weird look in his eye and before I could do anything, all of the sudden he just snapped at him and bit him right below the eye and above the lip. Like I said he has nipped before but nothing serious like this, before it seemed like it was more out of play, even though I never let him get away with it. My question is, does this dog need to be put down or placed in another home where there wont ever be kids around? He is a great dog, but a very fearful dog and I think that is why he did this. It is extremely embarrassing, and even embarrassing just to write about this on the forum. How do you correct this? I am not going to use someone's kids as guinea pigs to teach him that he cant do this, and it scares me to death about having kids of my own, because I dont know how he would act around them. He really is great dog and it kills us trying to make a decision on what to do with him. It was just so wierd yesterday, like his pupils dialated and he just zoned in and went for it, and trust me, he didnt get away with it! That is my other question too, what should I have done to punish him? Please any advice would be great. I already know what my dog did was bad and we feel terrible about it, and the last thing we want to do is put him down or give him away, so please, only advice one what to do or any experiences anyone has had with this type of situation. Thank you in advance.

those nips should have been a red flag and the weird look should have initiated a direct response with consequences. You know he's a nipper so you should be watching like a hawk and responding
instantly ! if thats not possible than its your responsibility to manage his problem and keep him away from children.


As much as i hate to make the reference check out some Cesar Milan videos, I've seen a couple with him dealing with fear biters or fear based aggression, that were pretty good to watch.
go to youtube and search Cesar Millan fearful dog and dog agression......some good insight. but in the end you need to manage the dog and situations he gets put in until (or if) you find a solution.

Crate when kids come over.

snips wrote:Crate when kids come over.

Presuming you want to keep the dog, then this ^


Your description of the dog as a "very fearful dog" definitely shows valid concerns. I would not have a dog around that I couldn't trust 100% with everybody in my house - but that's me.

Good luck!

Yes, he got away with it. He bit the kid who should NEVER have been around the dog in the first place. You knew he is hot and let it happen. Do not make this mistake again.

I usually recommend Dr. Ian Dunbar's material on bite inhibition. However, this dog does not need to be around kids. If you want to kill him, that's your choice, but he will never be safe with kids and it's your responsibility to oversee that.

By the way, I have dogs that are not kid safe. I have a couple whose purpose on Earth is to guard and I make sure they are under control.

Your liability - emotional and other wise - surely increases with a dog like that. You could always crate when company visits but it's hard to be 100 % observant. i had the same kind of dog once. The dog grabbed a kid by the head who was jumping on the couch behind him. Also he grabbed a full grocery bag out of a pedestrian's hand once because the white bag frightened him. You can't predict when a fearbiter will lashout. I put that dog down at 3

edited the age.

www.siriuspup.com

The dog gave a warning and pulled his punch with the kid, another warning. He could have hurt the child a lot more. When you punish after the event, you may create a situation where the dog neglects the warning in future events. What the dog did was a fear aggression response.

I would have taken that dog outside away from everyone and shot it. I seen firsthand what a dog can do to a baby or toddler. It aint pretty. Some dogs are just that way, some are made to be that way, might be able to break it but can you ever trust it again?

markj wrote:, might be able to break it but can you ever trust it again?

True words !

I've had this exact problem. We have a 10 year old chessie that has never been good with kids once she hit maturity. We don't EVER allow her to be with kids. It's not that big a deal for us as we don't have our own kids. We just can't take her to fun events like sportshows or seminars. When we do youth hunts, she has to be watched over carefully and we don't allow kids to approach her. We've managed her like this since she turned 3, so it's definitely possible. Crating when kids come over is certainly an option. It's all on you at this point - you have a known fear biter and you just need to manage it. Euthanasia is an option, just not one I was comfortable with. We committed to dealing with our dog - you might not feel that is the best option for you, but it can be done.

Thanks everyone for the replies. It kills me that we are in this situation. When out in the field or anytime he is off leash and independent he shows no interest in anything other than running free, and has never shown any interest in kids, the only time it has ever happened is while on leash or like yesterday in our home. I know it is now on me since I know what kind of dog I have on my hands now, but we are not ready to make the decision on putting him down yet. We will just have to be very careful and make sure he is put up anytime there are kids in the home or around him in a stressful environment. Any other advice anyone has is appreciated. Thank you!

Most of the desensitization techniques you will find are going to involve getting the dog to turn away from the stressor (child) and come to you for a reward (treat). You can do this from a distance in places like parks. The goal is to make the child a visual cue to seek a safe place. The dog should never be trusted with kids, but I'd say about half the dogs I've encountered that were not in daily contact with kids show some apprehension.

I'm no canine behavior expert, but if those that are think it's possible to reduce or eliminate the issue, you might consider their advice for training and putting a muzzle on the dog when children are present for added insurance.

Dogs that cannot be trusted around people do not belong in a family setting. Period...end of story. Do the world a favor, put the dog down and move on. You tried, but it ain't worth the risk.

What if there is a next time? Can you live with that? If you give the dog away, what if it bites someone else's kid?

When I was faced with those questions regarding my new grandson and one of my dogs, the decision was easy. Doing it was hard, but it was what needed to be done.

RayG

If this dog is a good dog and I liked him I would'nt kill him I would just keep him away from kids.

Cajun Casey is correct, the dog presented a fear aggression response. But what starts as fear biting can turn into forward aggression if the dog thinks nothing happens. The dog will show aggression every time it's in a stressful situation because the dog believes aggression is what makes the stressor go away. My guess is that when the dog bit the child, everyone rushed to the child (as they should have) and by the time the dog was addressed too much time had passed to dole out much punishment, other than separating the dog from the situation. I'll tell you that if the dog is put up AFTER any type of biting incident, the dog learns that aggression gets it away from whatever is stressing it one way or another. You won't fix a fear biter. In my experience, most people think they're the Dog Whisperer when it comes to fear biters. They think they can save it, change it. They can't. Fear biting is based in weak nerves and a lack of confidence. You can build confidence, nerve is another story. As much as I hate to say it, I have to agree with Ray. You may want to consider putting it down.You'll never be able to trust it around people. Although I agree you can manage the issue by crating the dog, the tendancy will always be there, under the surface. Fear biters are unpredictable. You'll never know what might be the trigger. I've been around high powered aggressive dogs for a long time now and learned and trained with some of the most respected K9, Special Ops, and bite sport trainers in the country and we all have the same opinion when it comes to fear biting . You'll never change it.

snips wrote:Crate when kids come over.

Yes HIGHLY AGREE Crate when children are there...You have no idea what this dog did in the past ..maybe that is the reason he was at the pound in the first place. If you allow this dog around another child and that child gets nipped to the point of needing medical attention..Point blank legally your post alone makes you completely responsible since this dog has had previous nipping and you have already indicated the nipping is getting worse.
I wouldn't allow this dog around any of my grand kids Period end of sentence