Gun Dog Forum

Vision wrote:

jcbuttry8 wrote: I can see trying to bring in some new blood that is quite possibly free of pointer blood.

Joe

Spending the money importing new blood to add to the tainted blood in the Rusty, Clown lines that he already owns, makes no sense to me.

How do you know if his Rusty or Clown breedings are tainted? You only assume so. Where's your knowlege or expertice.

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote: In AF the topn2 finishers in an Open or amateur stake must submit DNA samples within 30 days.

This isnt quite correct.

http://americanfield.villagesoup.com/p/ ... id=3699724

Ken

I personally saw 2 orange puppies out of a Brown L Spot litter in the early 90's. Plus I also know that the "e" in Rockin Rollin Billy came from Roxy Roller via Jigs White Smoke. Brown L is the common sire in Spot and Jigs.

It's factual that Rusty and Clown have pointer blood in them, don't be naive. Most GSP's in the US have pointer in them as far back as Tri State Trooper in the 60's and 70's.

I have been around GSP's and Trialing since 1976 so I think I have some experience, and knowledge.

Vision wrote:Most GSP's in the US have pointer in them as far back as Tri State Trooper in the 60's and 70's.

Ditto !!!

I'd say quite a ways back farther then that!!

Ahumphers91a wrote:Ok, wow.. The guy I have been talking to has titles on his bitch, and the sire has been tested at the Kleeman. I am certain I wouldn't have an issue if I did have to have the DNA test done. I know what I want from the line's i'm looking at, just asking about shipping. The dam is about 10% german lines and the rest is Danish. The to be sire is between the one pictured (German Bred) to an all danish bred male solid liver as well.
Here's some pic's of the dam and possible sire.

This is one of the most beautiful Dogs Ive seen.

Id love to own a DK such as this one day..

V-John wrote:

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote: In AF the topn2 finishers in an Open or amateur stake must submit DNA samples within 30 days.

This isnt quite correct.

http://americanfield.villagesoup.com/p/ ... id=3699724

May not be 100 % correct but when kona placed at the AF futurity we had thirty days to submit dba or forfeit the placement. All four placed dogs were swabbed at the placement ceremony.

Joe

jcbuttry8 wrote:

V-John wrote:

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote: In AF the topn2 finishers in an Open or amateur stake must submit DNA samples within 30 days.

This isnt quite correct.

http://americanfield.villagesoup.com/p/ ... id=3699724

May not be 100 % correct but when kona placed at the AF futurity we had thirty days to submit dba or forfeit the placement. All four placed dogs were swabbed at the placement ceremony.

Joe

Ok? I'm just correcting a mistake, that's all. I know the bigger stakes require it but the weekend trials don't.

Vision wrote:Ken

I personally saw 2 orange puppies out of a Brown L Spot litter in the early 90's. Plus I also know that the "e" in Rockin Rollin Billy came from Roxy Roller via Jigs White Smoke. Brown L is the common sire in Spot and Jigs.

It's factual that Rusty and Clown have pointer blood in them, don't be naive. Most GSP's in the US have pointer in them as far back as Tri State Trooper in the 60's and 70's.

I have been around GSP's and Trialing since 1976 so I think I have some experience, and knowledge.

Tell me what breed hasn't had something other than what they are supposed to be hasn't been crossbred with something they aren't. But to call them tainted, no.

kensfishing wrote:

Vision wrote:Ken

I personally saw 2 orange puppies out of a Brown L Spot litter in the early 90's. Plus I also know that the "e" in Rockin Rollin Billy came from Roxy Roller via Jigs White Smoke. Brown L is the common sire in Spot and Jigs.

It's factual that Rusty and Clown have pointer blood in them, don't be naive. Most GSP's in the US have pointer in them as far back as Tri State Trooper in the 60's and 70's.

I have been around GSP's and Trialing since 1976 so I think I have some experience, and knowledge.

Tell me what breed hasn't had something other than what they are supposed to be hasn't been crossbred with something they aren't. But to call them tainted, no.

And this includes the pointer as well.

So what do we call folks who look us in the eye and tell us their crossbred dog is a GSP??

JKP wrote:So what do we call folks who look us in the eye and tell us their crossbred dog is a GSP??

I've heard GSP s called pionthairs, brits called setters, V's called pionters. They're all out there. If you doubt it you're in another world. I commend Adam for wanting to do this importing. I've talked to him a number of times about it.

Importing dogs to incorporate into your breeding program can be a great thing.. I live with a pretty special dog out of an imported bitch

When were talking tainted lets remember that it can't go just one way, if shorthair has pointer in them , well pointer has shorthair in them; it can't go just one way! And besides I seen with my own eyes breeding between a shorthair and a pointer to try to put handle in thier pointer line; this happened around 1965.
Thier not all in a ditch somewhere.

Meller wrote:When were talking tainted lets remember that it can't go just one way, if shorthair has pointer in them , well pointer has shorthair in them; it can't go just one way!

Are you saying folks take half the litter and reg. as GSP and half reg. as Pointer.

Are you saying Rusty was the only dog of the litter registered?

kensfishing wrote:

Vision wrote:Ken

I personally saw 2 orange puppies out of a Brown L Spot litter in the early 90's. Plus I also know that the "e" in Rockin Rollin Billy came from Roxy Roller via Jigs White Smoke. Brown L is the common sire in Spot and Jigs.

It's factual that Rusty and Clown have pointer blood in them, don't be naive. Most GSP's in the US have pointer in them as far back as Tri State Trooper in the 60's and 70's.

I have been around GSP's and Trialing since 1976 so I think I have some experience, and knowledge.

Tell me what breed hasn't had something other than what they are supposed to be hasn't been crossbred with something they aren't. But to call them tainted, no.

IMO tainted is an accurate description when it is done under the table. What would you call it?

Are there any lines of German Shorthaired Pointers in the United States that are not suspected of being cross bred with English Pointers? From what i have gathered over the last month on this forum and according to the people on this forum, is that GSP's in the USA are pretty much gsp x english pointer mixes registered as either.

Man, some good comments and some that have gotten out of hand..LOL.. I did however find out that the parents of an imported pup do NOT have to be DNA'd, just the pup when registered into AKC and before it's first breeding in the USA. So there's that. Here's the link: http://www.akc.org/pdfs/foreign.pdf

i guess I should chime in a bit here, I've imported 7 DK's over the years and can shed some light on the process and European take to importing- the following may be of use:

The DK registry is quite substatiated in notes and test histories that are readily available as historic information about confirmation, test ratings, progeny and other documentation up and to current DNA records for all ancestry back numerous generations sometimes decades and decades of lineage.

If breedings are not controlled directly by a breed warden they are only approved by the parent club to animals that have proven themselves to be breeding specimans by conformation and testing levels that are deemed acceptable to the registry standards

Pups are tattood traditionally in their right ear by a breed warden or witness who conducted the breeding approval and oversaw the litter before during and after whelping

The tattoo number will be the registry number for the "future" registration of the pup when and if it completes testing to become breedable

All of that being said-the DK system is very different in training and testing from US usage even compared to NAVHDA there are fewer birds available in training and fur is a more prevelent venue northern germany has very few birds and most dogs are trained for tests without ever seeing them- style, movement, point are not nearly focused upon as much as in the US and obdience , toughness and versatility are more focal points

Just a very different venue and lifestyle and as so much as we breed in the US for what we desire for our lifestyle they do the same

DK registry animals are recognized in most cases by the AKC and with correct process, documentation and pictures of the animal they can be dual registered AKC and DK however, DK registry animals can only transfer DK registry to offspring by being bred to another DK registered animal - if bred to an AKC or other domestically registered animal the offspring can only qualify for that domestic registry

If the expectation is to influence a current domestic gene pool with an influx of new blood the expectation should also be to engage in the DK system here and test the animal to insure a level of competence and traits that would actually perhaps be of benefit genetically to the pool you wish to have affect on rather than just new blood with a european geneology of ancestors that produced animals with the desired european attributes within that gene pool

Fuel is expensive in europe and folks rarely travel over 100km to do a breeding and are very limited either by availability or breed warden control to which animals they can breed to and maybe of more importance which animals are to be exported and to where Id stringly recommend becoming intimately familiar with the individual animals characteristics before importing anything and being disappointed with an animal of different characteristics than you desire- understand the DK system of testing and analyze what you desire and seek those traits

Air travel is a mute issue in the total cost of importing as a whole cost but remember there is expense in taxes, tarrifs, customs and the issue of transfer fees and boarding if multiple airports and flights are needed beyond international airport destinations

Research and trust are key and good contacts in the area are invaluable in getting what you truly desire

We really havent even touched the surface here but maybe some of this will be of value my appologies in advance for the sloppiness of punctuation and spelling as im on my ipad. Happy to share more if anyone wants to im me

Best,
Outlaw

My Clown is "tainted"? Blasphemy.

outlaw,

your take on the breed warden is incorrect,have you actually bred within the DKV?

Ahumphers91a wrote:Man, some good comments and some that have gotten out of hand..LOL.. I did however find out that the parents of an imported pup do NOT have to be DNA'd, just the pup when registered into AKC and before it's first breeding in the USA. So there's that. Here's the link: http://www.akc.org/pdfs/foreign.pdf

Nice looking dog..Big fan of the crown nose...I checked Rusty ped he has FC-IntCH MOESGAARD IB 13x in a five gen...Does this dog match?

FC-IntCH MOESGAARD IB is a import form Demmark

Clown has Wassersling 2x and IB.

I think i see what you are lookin for..Hope it works out for you.