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Lab or chessie?

Lab or chessie?

Postby Sfd714 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:19 pm

which is better male or female?
Which is easier to train? Black, Yellow, Chocolate?
Should I get a British or American?
I hear chessies are aggressive and stubborn, is it true?
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby Brazosvalleyvizslas » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:45 pm

Well the best labs I have ever witnessed came from Wildrose Kennels. There is a reason why they are Orvis endorsed and Ducks Unlimited gets their maskots from them. With that said there are many good breeders many of which may bs members here so I'm not suggesting that is your only option. The answer to the question about color? The saying many years ago was "you can have any color Lab you want as long as it's black." :D
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby Back » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:56 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:Well the best labs I have ever witnessed came from Wildrose Kennels. There is a reason why they are Orvis endorsed and Ducks Unlimited gets their maskots from them. With that said there are many good breeders many of which may bs members here so I'm not suggesting that is your only option. The answer to the question about color? The saying many years ago was "you can have any color Lab you want as long as it's black." :D


Are you sure you didn't get that confused with Henry Ford and the Model T...?
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby Double Shot Banks » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:01 pm

I have heard the same about chessies, i hear they are more serious, work dogs, and i know from past dogs labs work to please you, fromt he heart
all the colors are the same with training, but yellow is harder to see in pheasant grass
i like males better because they have big legs. chest, and they look large and they have a nice blockhead, but if you dont nueter it they will be peeing on every stick they see and possible getting your buddies dogs pregnant
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby Brazosvalleyvizslas » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:04 pm

No, it's an old statement that some trainers used when Chocolates first came out. I believe it started with a well known trainer in England. It was a tongue in cheek statement.
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby Doc E » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:51 pm

Personally, I'm not a fan of Ehglish (Wildrose type) dogs.
Lab or Chessie --- just look at the titles on dogs and that will give you your answer.... Labs by a HUGE margin.
Chessie have heart and strength -- Labs have ability.
Color ? Blacks and Yellows have a lot more titled dogs than Chocos.
Male ? Female ? --------- Your choice.
Females come in heat twice a year. Males are in heat all the time. I still prefer males.



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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby Brazosvalleyvizslas » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:15 pm

Doc, don't take this as anything but a question put up for discussion. I agree wholeheartedly with you about labs, chessies and color but have you personally worked with or hunted with any Wild Rose dogs or are you basing your opinion on the English part? The dogs are extremely intelligent, biddable, lots of drive and are titled to the max. Their tests and titles maybe different but the dogs still need all of the qualities to achieve those titles. We are talking hunting and not trialing, right?
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby duckn66 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:28 pm

Color makes no difference, breeding makes all the difference, in a lab or Chessie. Females come in heat twice a year and males are always in heat as Doc said.

Chessies are not stubborn or hard headed. They are actually very intelligent dogs and require a thinking man to train one. It's been my experience with them that once they get something they have it and are ready to move on no need to keep repeating. They actually don't respond well at all to a heavy hand, at least none of mine did. They have big hearts and tons of drive. Born and bred for the water as a lab was and make outstanding upland dogs. Only thing about them is once in a while you will get a water freak that just cannot stay out of the water. My last one was that way. He practically lived in my pond in the front yard. They can be protective which some people translate to aggressive. My last one had to be muzzled at the vet. Did not like to be messed with by a stranger, but who does?

Someone with more experience with them than me will be along to correct my short comings and/or add more. My next retriever will definately be a Chessie. I absolutely love them.

As far as size in either breed I will take the smallest one I can get. My BLF weighs in at a whopping 60lbs but most of that is heart. She knows no quit and unfortunately does not have an "off" switch.
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby jackie916 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:00 pm

Go with the labrador. Chessies are more aggresive (at least the ones i've met.) I find female dogs easier to work with, but thats your call, whatever you choose, get them fixed. I don't think color make much of a difference, but i've heard that chocolates are "quirky"
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby Doc E » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:42 am

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:Doc, don't take this as anything but a question put up for discussion. I agree wholeheartedly with you about labs, chessies and color but have you personally worked with or hunted with any Wild Rose dogs or are you basing your opinion on the English part? The dogs are extremely intelligent, biddable, lots of drive and are titled to the max. Their tests and titles maybe different but the dogs still need all of the qualities to achieve those titles. We are talking hunting and not trialing, right?


I've hunted over a couple WildRose dogs. They are fine -- I just prefer dogs with more "fire" as exhibited by American Field Bred Labs.
As far as "titled to the max" -- yes they are, in their own 'doggie games' ---- virtually none in American Field Trials.



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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby sdsujacks » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:04 am

Look at the picture and determine what one looks best to you, then get that color. There is no difference between them. Yellows look "friendliest." Chocolates look "tough." Blacks look "toughest and determined." They all have the same drive, temperament, etc. Blacks are easiest to see while pheasant hunting. Yellows are tough to spot at times in tall grass while pheasant hunting, but they are easier to spot in water IMO.
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby QuillGordon » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:04 pm

Labrador, American, male, yellow, thee harder the head the better

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby MHWH » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:56 pm

I don't like the protective or aggressive attitude people talk about in relation to Chessies. I also
don't like the oily coat, or the color. They also tend to have straight front legs, sort of peg legged. This
makes it tough on them to run for long periods.

As far as the English look, or the American field lab look, I prefer the American look. I have had three and have one now.
He is a whopping 50 lbs. These dogs can be, as mine have been, very athletic, and have great endurance in the upland field.
I have never seen a big Lab (75lbs or more) that could run with dogs like this. I have friends who said their big Lab could run all day. When we hunted they sometimes did, but the amount of ground they covered was all within 30 yards of the owners all day. My dogs cover much more area than that. The numbers of miles these Labs cover compared to the big Labs
is not comparable.

I prefer black. I like the pads and the nose to be black because it is tougher, less skin problems. I like the idea that in any sort of trail there are always way more black dogs winning than yellows or chocolate, meaning I think you will more likely get a good hunting dog in the black color. All Labs have black genetics.

All this is my opinion and experience your mileage may vary.

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby Sfd714 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:38 pm

Not sure iv seen a English lab. What's the difference between and English and American?
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby deke » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:49 pm

Having both yellow and black, American and english, small and big. I would have to say that the small american black is by far a superior hunter. He covers way more ground, with half as much effort and can go all day.
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby Doc E » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:46 pm

MHWH wrote: I like the idea that in any sort of trail there are always way more black dogs winning than yellows or chocolate, meaning I think you will more likely get a good hunting dog in the black color. All Labs have black genetics.

Mike

More Blacks win because more Blacks are entered.
Percentage wise, Yellows are better.



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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby Waterdogs1 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:40 pm

I have trained for over 17 year and have seen three good Chessies. One was a MH with Derby points, One a field trial dog and the other a gun dog. I pick the breeding the bloodlines, health clearances and so on. I study them and know parents,grand parent and if possible great grand parents. As far as color you are going to find more blacks from better working bloodlines then yellow and next chocolates. I like any good working dog but to me it is just as easy to feed one that looks good and does the work as the other. It is hard if you have nothing to compare to a french poodle might look like a super hero if you have been retrieving your own birds. I am in the market for a good yellow female but havn't found a breeding I like yet. Next is finding a breeder that stands behind their pups.
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby crackerd » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:23 am

Good response, WD - and another clarification that needs to be made for our less enlightened (but gung-ho marketing) responders is that "English" is the euphemism for American show Labs, British Labs is what we call these from overseas who work (and/or run field trials and HTs)

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And Brazos - "best Labs witnessed" at doing what, exactly, when it comes to WailRose? Reckon you've been deprived or sheltered of watching working Labs, whether in a duck blind or at trials, and going by the Orvis and DU stamps of approval, which mean absolutely nothing insofar as bonafides for a working retriever?

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby Brazosvalleyvizslas » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:37 am

MG, I grew up in S.E, Texas owning, hunting, guiding and training labs. I didn't say anything negative about ANY line of labs!!!!! I love watching good trial dogs work. The 2 Wildrose dogs that I hunted with were completely trained by Mike Stewart so maybe that something to do with my impression. They were machines with a huge amount of drive and extremely intelligent. I'm not sure what else someone would want in a hunting dog.
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby crackerd » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:03 am

Appreciate the followup, Brazos. We're not necessarily in dispute here - more a case of agreeing on one thing and maybe being more in agreement on another. Like I think the best college football team in the country at the end of the season resides nearby for you, aTm - but I know the crystal football resides with the national champion Crimson Tide of Alabama. British Labs, Wailrose's included, got plenty of firepower, it's all down to how they're trained for letting them show it. "English" Labs, it's all down to how (much) you feed them - and no matter how they're trained, ain't likely to be much firepower come of it.

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby Brazosvalleyvizslas » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:49 am

Crackerd, your civil response is respected as is your opinion. I would love to hear why you refer to them as Wailrose as I've had a deposit down on one for 6 years now and was thinking about picking a pup. If you have any info or opinion on the dogs I would love to hear it as you may save me the rest of the $1k. Notice in my post that I never suggested "English" over American, I was specific in a breeder that I'm confident could provide what the OP was looking for, a hunting dog. Feel free to provide me with some good American breeders as I'm moving back to Texas and will need atleast one Lab to compliment my pointers. PM if necessary
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby crackerd » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:13 pm

No shortage of good American or British-American breeders out there, Brazos - of the latter, I would look into Dublem Gundogs and Maj. Bud Clouse out in Nebraska, Double TT Kennel in Kansas and especially Tom Hamilton at Bracken Fen Gundogs (who in the opinion of many is the reputable British breeder in Mississippi), and even far smaller "hobbyist" breeders who I'm personally familiar with but won't name here.

American performance Labs, now you're talking about the best-bred dogs (insofar as health clearances and testing - and capability) on the planet, and "no shortage of them" only hints at what's available. And they're the best bargain among gundog breeds too - because most of the breeders ain't in it for the money but for producing quality pups that better the breed. The health guarantees these pups come with are bankable too. You can find a good sampling, for comparison's sake pricewise, in a forum almost "next door" and currently listing a number of outstanding litters from Tejas:
http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?31-Classifieds-Lab-Puppies

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby Brazosvalleyvizslas » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:07 pm

Thanks Brotha. I will do some shopping and may just pick up one of each and see how they come out.
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby Fester » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:40 pm

2010: FC AFC Hunter Runs Booboo
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owners: Kit Johnston & John Straclea

2009: NFC FC Mioak's Fabulous Flipper
Breed: Labrador Retriever (female)
Owner: Gordy Alfter

2008: NFC FC Two Rivers Lucky Willie
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Brady Oman

2007: NFC FC AFC Candlewood’s Somethingroyal
Breed: Labrador Retriever (female)
Owners: Ken Neil & Brenda Little

2006: FC AFC Dr. Copper, PH.D. MH
Breed: Labrador Retriever (female)
Owner/Handler: Wayne Dodson

2005: FC AFC Clubmead's Road Warrior
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Frank Kashevarof

2004: FC AFC Dewey's Drake of Moon Rivers
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Gary McIlwain

2003: FC AFC Five Star General Patton
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owners: Debra Bredeson and Eleanore Muth

2002: FC AFC Cashman's Fat Lady Zingin
Breed: Labrador Retriever (female)
Owners: J. M. DuBose and Lynne DuBose

2001: FC AFC Eagle Ridge Rocket Sam
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: William Bowen

2000: FC AFC Maxx's Surprise
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Sherwin Scott

1999: FC AFC Croppersriverwaterblackteal
Breed: Labrador Retriever (female)
Owners: Marilyn Boatright and Kirk Naisbitt

1998: AFC Abe's Ebony and Ivory
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owners: Sharon Hanvey and Gary Hanvey

1997: AFC Lucyana's Fast Willie
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owners: Laura Parrott and John Parrott

1996: AFC Storm's Riptide Star
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Marilyn Fender

1995: FC AFC Vinwood's Takes A Lick'n
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Christie Farmer

1994: FC Candlewoods Raisa Ruckus
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owners: Matthew Sullivan and Stirling Sullivan

1993: NAFC FC AFC Candlewoods Tanks A Lot
Breed: Labrador Retriever (female)
Owner: Marion Stroud-Swingle

1992: NAFC Candlewoods Super Tanker
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Joyce Williams

1991: NAFC FC AFC Candlewoods Tanks A Lot
Breed: Labrador Retriever (female)
Owner: Marion Stroud-Swingle

1990: NAFC FC AFC Candlewoods Tanks A Lot
Breed: Labrador Retriever (female)
Owner: Marion Stroud-Swingle

1989: FC AFC Otus Of Redfern
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Aurelia Rice

1988: FC AFC PP's Lucky's Super Toby
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owners: Fred Kampo and Charles Hays

1987: AFC Yankee Independence
Breed: Labrador Retriever (female)
Owner: Gunther Rahnefeld

1986: FC AFC Jubilashus T C Malarky
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Martin Clement

1985: FC AFC Dynamite Duke IV
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owners: Marshall Dunaway and Linden Dunaway

1984: FC AFC Wanapum's Lucyana Girl
Breed: Labrador Retriever (female)
Owner: John Parrott

1983: FC AFC Trieven Butch Of Big Jake
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owners: Joe Boatright and Gloria Boatright

1982: FC AFC Westwind Supernova Chief
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owners: D J Esposito and Nancy Esposito

1981: FC AFC Orion's Sky
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: John Martin

1980: FC AFC Risky Business Ruby
Breed: Labrador Retriever (female)
Owner: Gary Thompson

1979: FC AFC McGuffy
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owners: T J Lindbloom and Debby Lindbloom

1978: FC AFC Shadow Of Otter Creek
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Robert Kennon Jr.

1977: FC AFC Euroclydon
Breed: Labrador Retriever (female)
Owner: Cecil Strait Jr.

1976: FC AFC San Joaquin Honcho
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Judith Aycock

1975: FC AFC Wanapum Darts Dandy
Breed: Labrador Retriever (female)
Owner: Charles Hill

1974: FC AFC Happy Playboy's Pearl
Breed: Labrador Retriever (female)
Owners: David Crow and Gretchen Crow

1973: AFC Baird's Centerville Sam
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owners: Mr and Mrs Mahlon B Wallace Jr.

1972: FC AFC Royal's Moose's Moe
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: William Connor

1971: FC Mi-Cris Sailor
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Edith Murnane

1970: FC AFC Creole Sister
Breed: Labrador Retriever (female)
Owner: Donald Weiss

1969: NFC FC Whygin Cork's Coot
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Edith Murnane

1968: NAFC FC AFC Super Chief
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: August Belmont

1967: FC AFC Butte Blue Moon
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owners: Mr and Mrs Bing Grunwald

1966: FC Whygin Cork's Coot
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Edith Murnane

1965: FC Martens' Little Smoky
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: John Olin

1964: FC Ripco's V.C. Morgan
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: J.D. Ott

1963: NFC FC AFC Del-Tone Colvin
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Louis Snoeyenbos

1962: FC AFC Bigstone Hope
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owners: Mr and Mrs Bing Grunwald

1961: FC AFC Del-Tone Colvin
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Louis Snoeyenbos

1960: FC AFC Dolobran's Smoke Tail
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Richard Hecker

1959: NFC FC Spirit Lake Duke
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Mrs George Murnane

1958: FC Nilo Possibility
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: K.K. Williams

1957: FC Spirit Lake Duke
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Mrs George Murnane

1956: FC Massie's Sassy Boots
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: William Cline

1955: FC AFC Cork Of Oakwood Lane
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Dr. Harold Mork

1954: FC Major VI
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Mrs Fraser Horn

1953: NFC FC King Buck
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: John Olin

1952: FC King Buck
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: John Olin

1951: FC Ready Always of Marian-Hill
Breed: Golden Retriever (male)
Owner: Mahlon Wallace Jr.

1950: FC Beautywood Tamarack
Breed: Golden Retriever (male)
Owner: Dr. L.M. Evans

1949: FC Marvadel Black Gum
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Paul Bakewell III

1948: FC Brignall's Gringo
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Cliff Brignall

1947: DC Bracken's Sweep
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Daniel Pomeroy

1946: NFC DC Shed Of Arden
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Paul Bakewell III

1945: Black Magic Of Audlon
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Mahlon Wallace Jr.

1944: FC Shelter Cove Beauty
Breed: Golden Retriever (female)
Owner: Dr. L.M. Evans

1943: NFC DC Shed Of Arden
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Paul Bakewell III

1942: DC Shed Of Arden
Breed: Labrador Retriever (male)
Owner: Paul Bakewell III

1941: Ch. King Midas Of Woodend
Breed: Golden Retriever (male)
Owner: E.W. Dodge


Anybody want to put the colors to these?
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby tdhusker » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:46 pm

Growing up, I got to duck hunt on the North Platte river with my Father and his friends. Nearly all serious duck hunters then had chessies and I've seen some outstanding ones. There is no better water retriever IMO. Fast current, ice, miserable conditions... can't beat em. Until you have to take them home... labs are so much easier to live with.
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby nikegundog » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:27 pm

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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby Grange » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:47 pm

I grew up with chessies and currently own a lab. If I were primarily a waterfowl hunter I'd own a chessie without a doubt. Some dogs like water, some dogs love water and then there is the chessie. If I was more of an upland hunter, which I am, then I'd choose a lab between the two.
Last edited by Grange on Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby eyeonbird » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:33 pm

Great Determination in the video....however i would never put my dogs through that...just plain stupid.
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Re: Lab or chessie?

Postby birddog1968 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:53 pm

video means little, labs can break waves too....I could even dig up one of labs retrieving 200lb seals.....still don't prove nothing. Both are great retrievers.
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