Coyotes and Dogs

slistoe
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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by slistoe » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:46 pm

ACooper wrote:
birddogger wrote:Arround here, almost all coyote hunting is done with dogs. It's a wonder any of the dogs survive. :mrgreen:
Isn't that the truth, now wolves I'd worry about, coyotes? Ehhh not so much.
5 dogs on one coyote is quite different than 5 coyotes on one dog.
But whatever, snub away.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:04 pm

ACooper wrote:
birddogger wrote:Arround here, almost all coyote hunting is done with dogs. It's a wonder any of the dogs survive. :mrgreen:
Isn't that the truth, now wolves I'd worry about, coyotes? Ehhh not so much.
I agree. Even with my poor little Brits the only coyotes I have seen are running away as fast as they can with the dogs right behind them.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by jimbo&rooster » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:35 am

slistoe wrote:
ACooper wrote:
birddogger wrote:Arround here, almost all coyote hunting is done with dogs. It's a wonder any of the dogs survive. :mrgreen:
Isn't that the truth, now wolves I'd worry about, coyotes? Ehhh not so much.
5 dogs on one coyote is quite different than 5 coyotes on one dog.
But whatever, snub away.
I would venture to say that VERY FEW people have actually witnessed 5 coyotes make an attept on one of their hunting dogs. Now, before anyone gets bent out of shape, I agree that yote work in groups, but NEVER once in 20yrs of hunting with dogs from 15lb beagles and Feist dogs, to 100lb walkers, have I seen a coyote make much more than a feined attempt at a dog, and I have never seen more than one coyote team up for a full on attack of a dog. I have however seen coyotes try to decoy dogs away but a trash broke, honest dog should never have an issue with that.

On a side note, while out riding I watched a female try to bait our aussi male away, she would play crippled and lay down, as he worked towards her the 2 sarplaninacs flanked her, by the time she figured out she had been hoodwinked it was to late, I rode up in time to see ONE additional coyote streaking across the land scape, and found one well stretched young female.

Maybe our local coyotes are smarter than most since running them with hounds used to be BIG sport around here.

Jim

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by slistoe » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:45 am

You would probably be more right than wrong with the very few observation, but the fact remains very few is quite different than never. No one on this thread has ever intimated common as a descriptor of behaviors of coyote/dog encounters gone badly, yet there are those who would very much like to poo-poo their experiences and cautions with a "Never, I don't believe it." condescension.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by Cicada » Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:38 am

2 years ago I lost my old 70lb male GSP to 2 yotes I was at the trap club and while in the club house making coffee. He and my smaller female were outside down on a lower bench. About 15 min later I went out and checked on them. 2 big yotes had the male cornered and were taking turns ripping him apart; my female was doing her best to defend him but she was just to small. They bugger off when they saw me but were back as soon as I went to get a shot gun so I had to chase them off a second time. He was missing most of his back side, his face was ripped and his once white hide covered in blood. We put him down right there.

So does it happen yes often no but when a wild animal wants your dog they will get it.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by jimbo&rooster » Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:52 pm

slistoe wrote:You would probably be more right than wrong with the very few observation, but the fact remains very few is quite different than never. No one on this thread has ever intimated common as a descriptor of behaviors of coyote/dog encounters gone badly, yet there are those who would very much like to poo-poo their experiences and cautions with a "Never, I don't believe it." condescension.
I claimed very clearly that I have never had an issue. As far as poo pooing others experiences, yeah, maybe. The fact is that most of us are more likely to lose a dog to being hit by a car or stole, than snatched up by a yote. I have never so much as given a second thought to coyotes. heck we have livestock guard dogs for our livestock and they get more work out of the local stray dogs even with 15-20 new born lambs on the ground in the midst of this freeze.

Most coyotes just aren't that aggressive to actively peruse a healthy full grow dog.

Jim

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by ChetB » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:53 pm

My only experience with a Coyote while hunting my GSP happened this past November. My dog, Miranda, was working a hedgerow bordered by two stubble fields about 25 yards straight out in front of me. I glanced behind us and happened to see a deer running across the corner of the far field towards the woods. Looking back at Miranda, I saw that she appeared to be stalking something, but the hair was standing on the back of her neck and her posture indicated to me that she was on something other than a bird or even the scent of the deer. Scanning the area in front of her, I couldn't identify anything, but when her tail tucked between her legs and she started to make a low growl, I knew I'd better be prepared for something bad about to happen. I don't know if I was correct in doing it, but I gave her the "whoa" command and moved out and slightly in front of her to approach her at a right angle. As I got about ten yards from her she lowered her head and shoulders and her growl intensified, but I still couldn't see anything. In a flash, the Coyote ran from the hedgerow and Miranda bolted after him. She chased him for almost 50 yards before I got her stopped and turned around. The 'yote disappeared into the woods 200 yards away. Running back to me, Miranda had the look of triumph and success for having run the bugger off, but I'm "bleep" glad it turned like it did. I don't know what I'd have done if they'd gotten into a tangle.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by JKP » Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:13 pm

One look at the heads of the cross bred hounds of the coyote hunters we see every year in ND will make it obvious that the little "dogs" take their pound of flesh. They keep fighting til they're dead. Not worried about my dogs being killed but I don't need the vet bills. I'll continue to carry the drilling and take a pot shot when I get the chance.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by markj » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:51 am

slistoe wrote:You would probably be more right than wrong with the very few observation, but the fact remains very few is quite different than never. No one on this thread has ever intimated common as a descriptor of behaviors of coyote/dog encounters gone badly, yet there are those who would very much like to poo-poo their experiences and cautions with a "Never, I don't believe it." condescension.
I wasnt poo pooing anyones exp, but as for me I have never seen any yote even try to go fr any dog I have had. We used to run them with dogs, send in a killer dog, tie the hide off and run another. My shorthairs have got into it with yotes, coons, and skunks. None was hurt by any of them but the skunks have a defense all their own.

Carry a judge 410 and shoot them if you feel the need. Its Ok to do that.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:13 am

markj wrote:I wasnt poo pooing anyones exp, but as for me I have never seen any yote even try to go fr any dog I have had. We used to run them with dogs, send in a killer dog, tie the hide off and run another. My shorthairs have got into it with yotes, coons, and skunks. None was hurt by any of them but the skunks have a defense all their own. Carry a judge 410 and shoot them if you feel the need. Its Ok to do that.
I for one would rather patch up my dog from a scrap with a coyote then deal with a direct hit from a mature skunk.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by Waterdogs1 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:59 pm

I have seen Coyotes go after dogs before. It is only bad when you get multiple coyotes after a dog. The yotes seem to be bigger in our area thann I have seen in the south and areas I have been in the east. Most that I saw in GA, SC,NC, and Michigan were the size of our foxes. They raise alot of heck with our deer and calves in the spring, I have has deer come to the yard light all bloody and face chewed up getting away from them. Last year I saw a bunch of does and fawns running like crazy. I couldn't figure it out for sure. When they came closer it was a coyote getting chase by three does. It was pretty funny and if I would have had a rifle I would have shot him. I have also seen coyotes dog cow elk with calves. Coyotes will kill and eat what they can get, I have been told stories of them killing dogs but mostly smaller dog and coyotes in packs. I really do not worry about them but wolves, bears and lions they worry me.
Last edited by Waterdogs1 on Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by AlbertaChessie » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:59 pm

ACooper wrote:
birddogger wrote:Arround here, almost all coyote hunting is done with dogs. It's a wonder any of the dogs survive. :mrgreen:
Isn't that the truth, now wolves I'd worry about, coyotes? Ehhh not so much.
Im fairly sure the tendencies would be the same down south, but up here what looks like 1 coyote is actually 3 or 4. Often the first yote will 'bait' your dog into just trotting over that next hill or ridge, where the rest of the group is waiting. I already posted this, but I have a 110 lb Chesapeake.....against 1 coyote I didn't sweat it. However he did come away with a few deep knicks I had to patch up. Against 3 or 4, he wouldn't have a chance. Now replace my 110 lb bay dog that are well known to hold their own in a scrap and replace it with the versatile in your profile pic......not a chance pup walks away.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by Sharon » Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:33 pm

N.A.F.A opened to day.
Interesting situation with the weather affects in Russia etc.

http://www.nafa.ca/wp-content/uploads/2 ... WF-CAN.pdf

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by Wagonmaster » Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:49 pm

You should be concerned any time you see a coyote, and especially a single coyote, just "hanging out" and apparently unafraid with dogs around. They employ a decoy strategy where a single animal will just "hang out" in the open. When a dog or other animal goes to check it out, the decoy will drop back into cover, which is where the rest of the pack is waiting. The kill is typically made by taking the prey down with one or two animals on the rear hocks, then biting the prey in the head and eventually grabbing the throat and suffocating the prey. About 4 years ago we had a young pup killed at a local field trial by exactly that means (not my dog, I was judging and should have known better what we were seeing, but I do now).

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by remmy » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:40 pm

That is exactly what happened about a month ago. I let my male out to do his duty. It was dark and I had the front lights on. I can see Mac peeing by a bush then put his leg down and just froze there. I kept watching and wondering what he was doing...there were deer in the area before so I figured they came back and he was just staring at them. After a few minutes a coyote jumps from the other side of the bush and lunged at Mac and started chasing him. I ran toward them with my gun drawn (I was going to work) yelled and the coyote ran off across the way. I got him inside real quick and no sooner heard a few more yotes yapping between my house and my neighbors.

When hunting they always run off. In a different environment like at home when dogs are calm and just walking around in my yard, it does happen!

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by slistoe » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:51 pm

Wagonmaster wrote:You should be concerned any time you see a coyote, and especially a single coyote, just "hanging out" and apparently unafraid with dogs around. They employ a decoy strategy where a single animal will just "hang out" in the open. When a dog or other animal goes to check it out, the decoy will drop back into cover, which is where the rest of the pack is waiting. The kill is typically made by taking the prey down with one or two animals on the rear hocks, then biting the prey in the head and eventually grabbing the throat and suffocating the prey. About 4 years ago we had a young pup killed at a local field trial by exactly that means (not my dog, I was judging and should have known better what we were seeing, but I do now).
I lost a Setter to the coyotes by that technique from in my yard - the dog left after the coyote and I heard the ruckus over the next hill. By the time I got there it was over and I never did find my dog. A neighbor lost a German Shepard the same way when he was seeding - saw the coyote and the dog followed it into a small bush. When the dog didn't come back he ran over there from the tractor and 5 coyotes left the bush but he was too late. His dog died before he even got back to the tractor with him.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by GmanHawaii » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:20 pm

Only good Yote is a dead Yote, don't care if its shot or ripped apart piece at a time by dogs. Yotes are not particular about how they kill, and I am not particular about how they get killed. As a matter of fact we have a lot of them here in WA and they can be a problem, if I know there is a pack near my house I will gut shoot one, usually sends a message to the pack and I don't see them again.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:04 pm

slistoe wrote:
Wagonmaster wrote:You should be concerned any time you see a coyote, and especially a single coyote, just "hanging out" and apparently unafraid with dogs around. They employ a decoy strategy where a single animal will just "hang out" in the open. When a dog or other animal goes to check it out, the decoy will drop back into cover, which is where the rest of the pack is waiting. The kill is typically made by taking the prey down with one or two animals on the rear hocks, then biting the prey in the head and eventually grabbing the throat and suffocating the prey. About 4 years ago we had a young pup killed at a local field trial by exactly that means (not my dog, I was judging and should have known better what we were seeing, but I do now).
I lost a Setter to the coyotes by that technique from in my yard - the dog left after the coyote and I heard the ruckus over the next hill. By the time I got there it was over and I never did find my dog. A neighbor lost a German Shepard the same way when he was seeding - saw the coyote and the dog followed it into a small bush. When the dog didn't come back he ran over there from the tractor and 5 coyotes left the bush but he was too late. His dog died before he even got back to the tractor with him.
Are these isolated cases, because many on here have stated that they have never had any such experience with coyotes and I also have spent plenty of time outdoors as well and some of that time was with dogs. I have only on a few occasions even seen a coyote while hunting and they never stay around long. We hunt out of a camp in northern tier PA, a very rural area and hear coyotes sounding off at night a lot, yet there are dogs at a few of the cabins that run free around some of the properties in the area, never heard of any ever being bothered by coyotes. Sounds like you are saying its a common occurrence???

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by slistoe » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:54 pm

Not sure how you would get that it was a common occurrence from what I posted, but most certainly is something that can and does happen on occasion - verified by eyewitness and not just speculation on where my dog might have gone. The setter I lost is going back some 20 years and the Shepard a good 15. Most folks around here in the past 15 years now have some sort of livestock guardian dog as farm dogs - Pyrs, Akbash, Maremara etc. Some of them wear scars.
A week ago when I drove home from work there were 5 coyotes crossing the field some 400 yards south of my house. Of course by the time I got home, in the house, fetched the 204 and headed back out there was no sign of any of them. Just before Christmas my wife was out with two of the dogs for a walk and a coyote started to circle her. She was worried it was trying to lure the dogs but it paid them no mind. At one point she ran at it and swung the snap of the 6 ft. lead she was carrying almost hitting it, to make it back off. It followed her the full 1/4+ mile back to the house. It hung back at the edge of the yard while she kennelled the dogs and when she went in the house was no more than 25 yards from the front of the house in the open lawn. When she came out with the rifle there was no coyote to be seen - she was sure it was there somewhere but couldn't see it. Anyway, when my son came home we went out with the call and sat 200 yards from the house. I started the call and hadn't really settled in when a coyote came in on the run - at about 30 yards I threw up the rifle and my hood obscured my vision of the scope. I had to flip the hood away, thinking all the while that I really screwed up on that stand, but the coyote just stood there at 20 yards looking at me while I repositioned, sighted and laid him on the ground. A mature male. My wife feels much better about going out for a walk again.

I am in no way afraid of the coyotes, but I certainly would not take their presence lightly and I would never regard them as a totally benign part of the landscape.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by ChetB » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:59 am

Since I've only had the one encounter with a Coyote that I posted about in this thread, I can't say how common these events are. In my case, I think the 'yote we saw had been trailing the deer when my dog came up on it. I don't think he had any interest in my dog, but I can't be sure of that. The thing that got my attention was how well hidden in the hedgerow he was ... I never saw him until he scrambled out of there and Miranda bolted right after him hot on his heels. I can only speculate what might have happened if I had been further away.


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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:26 am

I'm not saying I don't believe these guys its just that I never heard of any such problems in my area. Now Looking at those photos of the dogs hunting in Wyoming and the size of that coyote 20 yds from them, showing little fear of them does make me wonder. It seems that there is really little anyone can do anyway, if say 3 or 4 coyotes have their system down well and move in on a dog say 200 yds or more out. Like mentioned above, they could do real damage before a hunter could intervene. Ever since I have been reading these posts I have to admit that I do think about the possibility when hunting or running my dog.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by jack the dog » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:30 am

The only trustworthy yote is a dead one. You may have never had a bad experience with them, but they aren't stupid, instead they are opportunist and choose their battles. They may just have never felt they had the advantage with their encounter(s) with you, thus appearing harmless or scared. They weigh the risk before committing, let them catch you and your animals at a disadvantage and then their intent will become obvious.
Now that bird season is closed I am a yote hunter from now until October. I am making it my mission to kill as many of them as I can during that time.
Here in NC there is no season, no limit, and no magazine limitations on yotes, hunt in daylight or in the dark with lights is all OK.
I have decoys, calls, ghillie suit, plenty of places to hunt and patience, always had the firearm. Yotes be forewarned, they may be smart and learn from experience, but I also.
I will do my part to make sure there will be a lot fewer yotes in this area by next fall. I have shot two in my yard in the past few years, I am no expert but am working in that direction. But I have seen their damage and am aware that they can be dangerous and their ultimate goal is to survive.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:38 am

Why so much hate for the coyotes, did they get one of your dogs too?

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by JKP » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:00 am

Get you one of these....and even if all you do is kick up some dust when you see one, they won't stick around long. Only what you can't see that will be a problem. The Yote standing ground with those GSPs would have been toast.
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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by ChetB » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:05 am

Bounty_Hunter wrote:I'm not saying I don't believe these guys its just that I never heard of any such problems in my area. Now Looking at those photos of the dogs hunting in Wyoming and the size of that coyote 20 yds from them, showing little fear of them does make me wonder. It seems that there is really little anyone can do anyway, if say 3 or 4 coyotes have their system down well and move in on a dog say 200 yds or more out. Like mentioned above, they could do real damage before a hunter could intervene. Ever since I have been reading these posts I have to admit that I do think about the possibility when hunting or running my dog.

I'll tell you the truth, I was a Doubting Thomas about the tales I'd heard and read about regarding Coyotes down here in Blair County until I saw that one a few months ago. Like you, I spend a lot of time in the woods and fields around here hunting and running my dog. In hindsight, I can recall quite a few times her behavior seemed a bit odd when we were out and about. Now, I'm a believer and I'm always armed when we're in the field. I don't much care about hunting them, but I'm not going to take chances with my dog.


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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by birddogger » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:47 pm

There are exceptions to almost everything.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by ChetB » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:27 pm

birddogger wrote:There are exceptions to almost everything.

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I learned a long time ago that you cannot plan for every contingency, but you can try to be prepared for some of them! :)

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by trueblu » Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:21 pm

Bounty, just come to Texas. I have them in my yard nearly every night. Let me correct that, HAD them. Called for 4 nights, killed 3, a Tom, a coon, and a possum. Now, I don't have them. This all in a neighborhood with only a few homes.

However, I have had so many coyote encounters I can't count. I've also never been on the losing end. I've had two older style fur sharp Greif dogs run them down on two separate occasions, kill and dismember them. Granted both were mangy, old, and near death. I've had a catahoula/cur mix kill three. Ours are typically one of two types, smart/near genius, vary wary, run scared and fast, AND mangy, looking for a place to die. But, we see them and have "encounters" constantly.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:29 pm

trueblu wrote:Bounty, just come to Texas. I have them in my yard nearly every night. Let me correct that, HAD them. Called for 4 nights, killed 3, a Tom, a coon, and a possum. Now, I don't have them. This all in a neighborhood with only a few homes.

However, I have had so many coyote encounters I can't count. I've also never been on the losing end. I've had two older style fur sharp Greif dogs run them down on two separate occasions, kill and dismember them. Granted both were mangy, old, and near death. I've had a catahoula/cur mix kill three. Ours are typically one of two types, smart/near genius, vary wary, run scared and fast, AND mangy, looking for a place to die. But, we see them and have "encounters" constantly.
I don't think anyone is overplaying the risk but I do think there are geographical areas where there are just more coyotes, like your state, and the chance that they would present a problem would be much greater. I also think food availability would play a role as to weather they might team up on a full grown dog or not. Any animal facing hunger can take normal to the next level. I hope my hunting areas only have the very wary ones. I was told by a friend of mine that used to trap them, that its impossible to eradicate coyotes. Kill one and another will move in and take his place. Don't know how true that is but it does make sense because they have few predators. The most I have seen together is 3 and that was at night in the head lights. I will kill any that bother my dog but don't care to hunt them.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by lucky guy » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:56 pm

SCT wrote:A women just last week had her dog snatched off a well used trail just outside of neighboring homes here in Salt Lake. It was a single coyote that took it. They only found the dogs sweater, hours later. Hunting sage grouse one time years ago with my friends wirehair bitch, she disappeared for a spell and eventually came running in as fast as she could with one hot on her heels. And, this November a friends red setter was coming in hard with a coyote closing in on her before it saw him and turned away. I am always watching for them and I would be very careful running pups in areas where they live.

Steve
I always carry a sidearm when out with the dogs for this reason. Shot one a few weeks ago at about 5-7 yds. It was chasing my setter and popped out of the sage brush right in front of me. Oops!

This time of year here they are pretty territorial, gotta watch em!

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by Grousehunter123 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:45 pm

At grouse camp the past October one guy shot and killed a coyote with the birdshot in his gun. 2 guys were hunting with a Springer Spaniel that was being STALKED by a single female coyote. Think about the boldness and close proximity of that coyote.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by JKP » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:37 am

How often are the wolves in the UP munchin' on dogs?? They allowing a hunting season on wolves yet?

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:39 am

This lady seems convinced coyotes rarely bother dogs and she isn't big on hunting them either. :?:



http://www.pressherald.com/news/Biologi ... alone.html

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by jimbo&rooster » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:47 pm

Bounty_Hunter wrote:This lady seems convinced coyotes rarely bother dogs and she isn't big on hunting them either. :?:



http://www.pressherald.com/news/Biologi ... alone.html
I'm inclined to agree with her.

Jim

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by Nutmeg247 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:30 pm

Grousehunter123 wrote:At grouse camp the past October one guy shot and killed a coyote with the birdshot in his gun. 2 guys were hunting with a Springer Spaniel that was being STALKED by a single female coyote. Think about the boldness and close proximity of that coyote.
There are a few in areas I frequent here that a couple times have kind of shadowed me and my dog. I am sure in some cases they are stalking the dog, as you relate. In our case, I actually think they're looking to pick off rabbits that he might move. There are some issues here with smaller dogs getting picked off, but I actually heard more instances of this when I lived in the northeast. The northeast or other areas might carry a bigger load of coyotes than NV, so have more chance for bad interactions? Or, I might not socialize as much out here, and not hear as much for that reason. :P

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by Grousehunter123 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:11 pm

Nutmeg247 wrote:
Grousehunter123 wrote:At grouse camp the past October one guy shot and killed a coyote with the birdshot in his gun. 2 guys were hunting with a Springer Spaniel that was being STALKED by a single female coyote. Think about the boldness and close proximity of that coyote.
There are a few in areas I frequent here that a couple times have kind of shadowed me and my dog. I am sure in some cases they are stalking the dog, as you relate. In our case, I actually think they're looking to pick off rabbits that he might move. There are some issues here with smaller dogs getting picked off, but I actually heard more instances of this when I lived in the northeast. The northeast or other areas might carry a bigger load of coyotes than NV, so have more chance for bad interactions? Or, I might not socialize as much out here, and not hear as much for that reason. :P

Hadn't thought about picking off rabbits. I didn't actually see the event. They told me about it that night. To hear them tell the story I believe in this case it was definitely the dog the coyote was after. Also it was in Ontario, Canada which may or may not be relevant.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by Nutmeg247 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:27 pm

Grousehunter123 wrote:... Also it was in Ontario, Canada which may or may not be relevant.
May well be relevant -- some of the coyotes at least in New England and Quebec are supposed to be bigger and have some wolf in them. Could well be the same in Ontario.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by HUNT 24/7 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:39 pm

Nutmeg247 wrote:
Grousehunter123 wrote:... Also it was in Ontario, Canada which may or may not be relevant.
May well be relevant -- some of the coyotes at least in New England and Quebec are supposed to be bigger and have some wolf in them. Could well be the same in Ontario.
I live in New Brunswick, the coyotes here can be very large, I have a couple friends that trap, so far this winter they have gotten 43 coyotes so far, they have gotten several over 40lbs, the heaviest was 49lbs & another at 48lbs. This isn't uncommon at all, they have gotten them over 50lbs a few times over the years as well.

I know I don't want my dog to tangle with one, let alone a pack!

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:27 pm

134.JPG
Those mean ole coyotes can't get me in here!
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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by Sniper John » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:25 pm

Interesting thread. My older Vizsla was trained for passive decoy dog work. There would be a nip here and there, but the best way to describe what would go on would be more "dances with wolves" encounters. Most times Coyotes would show in pairs, but only one would try to engage my dog at a time. I hunted with a shotgun and used the dog to toll the coyote into close range. It does take a lot of control and a strong recall for this kind of hunting. Training was frustrating, but once it was figured out, it was some kind of fun hunting for both the dog and myself. Unfortunately it was short lived due to my dog losing her sight secondary to a tick disease she contracted during a goose hunting trip. Even in the past I have never really worried about Coyotes. They have shadowed my Vizsla before in the past during upland hunts. I always just ignored them, though I did have to shoot one that charged my dog during a Turkey hunt. Which is what caused me to learn about coyote decoy dogs and training for same. During my coon hunting years I often used to see coyotes in the dark trailing us on night hunts. They never bothered me, they were just curious and once a hound was broke from trash, it ignored the coyotes. Left along a coyote is no harm to a dog IMHO, but a dog not trained for dealing with them or not broke from running them, should be recalled and not allowed to engage them no different than you would do for a porcupine, bear, or skunk. Cornered or injured Coyotes can be quite dangerous.

Image

The safest way to deal with coyotes is to train the dog to do the calling so your free to do the shooting.

Image

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by jimbo&rooster » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:33 pm

My buddy had a big Airedale male he used as a decoy dog and would work as a catch dog when we ran hounds. It deffinateky takes a special dog to play deke.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by mask » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:12 pm

In all my years of hunting, and that includes hunting coyotes, I have never seen a pack. The closest was three dogs following a gyp in heat. I have had dogs kill coyotes and never the other way around although a couple of dogs did get ate up a little. Now those fifty lb. coyotes in the north east would be a horse of a different color but I have never seen one close to that out here and I'm glad.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by JKP » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:59 am

I have personally seen dead coyote in NY State that weighed 54, 56 and 64 lbs....all laid out in a big chest freezer waiting to be skinned out. They are a different animal here in the east.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:42 am

I, also being from the northeast have read in our local newspapers that organized hunts by our volunteer hose companies produce coyotes in the 50lb class but I would associate those animals with being healthy and living in areas that provide abundant natural foods and that (they) are more likely to be the ones that would be most weary of both hunters and full grown dogs. I would be more concerned with an underweight coyote that hangs around residential areas and is seen regularly during daylight hours.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by cjhills » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:27 am

We used to see a lot of articles about eastern coyotes being crossed with domestic dogs. That may account for the size. A fifty pound coyote in Minnesota would be really big. Never heard of coyotes and wolves crossing. Coyotes are pretty much lunch for wolves. When big dogs move in small dogs move out. The big dogs are taking over in our area now...................Cj

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by dan v » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:38 am

cjhills wrote:We used to see a lot of articles about eastern coyotes being crossed with domestic dogs. That may account for the size. A fifty pound coyote in Minnesota would be really big. Never heard of coyotes and wolves crossing. Coyotes are pretty much lunch for wolves. When big dogs move in small dogs move out. The big dogs are taking over in our area now...................Cj
Jerry, PBS or some other station did a documentary on the eastern coyotes. They are a hybrid, wolve x coyote. This wiki link explains it pretty well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_coyote

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by cjhills » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:18 pm

Wyndancer wrote:
cjhills wrote:We used to see a lot of articles about eastern coyotes being crossed with domestic dogs. That may account for the size. A fifty pound coyote in Minnesota would be really big. Never heard of coyotes and wolves crossing. Coyotes are pretty much lunch for wolves. When big dogs move in small dogs move out. The big dogs are taking over in our area now...................Cj
Jerry, PBS or some other station did a documentary on the eastern coyotes. They are a hybrid, wolve x coyote. This wiki link explains it pretty well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_coyote
I guess if it is on the internet it has to be true. It makes a good documentary, But I'm not sure I believe it. Plus one sentence says in 2010 there is no wolf influence on the eastern coyote. Wolves were nonexistent in the and southeast for the last hundred years or so. We didn't have them in central Minnesota until they were put on the endangered list. I'm still liking the domestic dog theory
Incidentally, Dave Mech don't Think there was enough samples to prove much................Cj

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by markj » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:22 pm

I go a pack behind my place now. I hear thm running and yipping in the early morning when I go out to let my dogs out of their kennels for the morning run. I usually holler real loud, I can hear them running away from me until the yipps go silent in the distance. All it took is me hollering to run em off :) they know me too well lol. Soon as it warms up I will call them in and kill every one I can :) Last time was 4 years ago, they came back this winter tho so it is time to clean it up.

This is a pack of mom and babies, I never see them in a wolf type pack. Up north they get bigger, I would just get a bigger dog like a good ol bull mastiff :) my neighbors mastiff will listen on the back deck, jump to his feet, run off and he brings back a dead yote, or a coon or a ......

Fear them? no, fear is for sissies, be a man.. :) out smart them.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by slistoe » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:43 pm

Although you may have lots of coyotes living in close proximity with each other, they do not form a pack or exhibit pack behaviors like wolves do. They do gang up on the hunt though - that I have witnessed.

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Re: Coyotes and Dogs

Post by Nutmeg247 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:50 pm

Just did some Googling, and apparently even down in VA some of the coyotes there have Great Lakes wolf DNA? FWIW, I think there probably are a fair number of coy-dogs out there, too; and, I am sure DNA testing has its limits still, too. Just some interesting animals, and interesting to have seen them spread back over the country the last few decades.

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