really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

larue
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really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by larue » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:36 pm

this is why trials should not be limited to a breed.

http://www.akc.org/events/search/index_ ... ed_breed=N

edit subject by admin to be more descriptive

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Re: really!

Post by Saddle » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:38 pm

How would a guy put a championship on these breeds if he had to compete against the big boys? :D

I agree. Closed breed trials are a joke.

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Re: really!

Post by Luisia02 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:48 pm

I am not sure the qualifications to become an AFC or FC for the Spinone Italiano but for the Brittanys you have to get a major in a Brittany Trial to recieve either you AFC or FC. Due to the limited number of trials it can sometimes be difficult to finish you dog and could go a long time waiting for that brittany win. I believe this is why different clubs will close the stakes to brittanys only.
I belong to North Jersey Brittany Club and we have all stakes open to all breeds. I Agree they should all be open to all breeds may the best dog win. The brittany club should change the rule about getting a major in a brittany trial. JMO

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Re: really!

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:49 pm

larue wrote:this is why trials should not be limited to a breed.

http://www.akc.org/events/search/index_ ... ed_breed=N
So what are you saying, only certain breeds should be allowed to have trials, all trials should have to be run to your standards, or are you just upset that you can't enter? I think it is great we have trials where most anyone can enter but there sure isn't anything wrong with any breed wanting to have trials for their breed like Britts and GSP's do. And I also am a believer that ever club should be able to do what they can handle both physically and monitarily without someone else deciding for them.

Ezzy

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Re: really!

Post by Chukar12 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:01 pm

My trials are open and I am involved in two Brittany Clubs. However, if the Brittany entries exceeded my ability to service a trial with the days and judging resources I have I would close them to the breed only. We are not entitled to the work and efforts of others. I suppose in the spirit of the First Amendment I cannot complain about those that care to impugn this breed or that but common sense tells me that i don't need to go round up points running against a breed that's considerably less popular and against people whose purpose may be the advancement of their breed...
I either start my own trial or jump up to AF ... but that's my opinion.

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Re: really!

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:26 pm

The event is being put on by the Spinone Club of America. Think about that.

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Re: really!

Post by Chukar12 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:28 pm

Luisia02 wrote:I am not sure the qualifications to become an AFC or FC for the Spinone Italiano but for the Brittanys you have to get a major in a Brittany Trial to recieve either you AFC or FC. Due to the limited number of trials it can sometimes be difficult to finish you dog and could go a long time waiting for that brittany win
I wish it was gone too...because I hate this excuse. I find no shame in the following reasoning...

You active breed clubs fill the available time and resources for a trial so you cannot accommodate everyone or...you openly acknowledge that you only want to run against your breed because that's what you want to judge your dogs performance by...

Again, I can only speak personally I would not hesitate to do the former and though i don't subscribe to the latter I am not here remark about those that do. To me it is the trialing/hunting/testing argument in different skin. I am not going to pretend that if I see an AKC FC/AFC title on a Spinone that ran only in its own breed trial I believe that the dog is equal in performance to a GSP ...different yes, special in its own right ok... I like open trials and even limited trials because I prefer to watch better dogs but there are lots of reasons for closing one and I am not sure the most descriptive way to describe it is a joke...

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Re: really!

Post by Winchey » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:31 pm

I think it is a good idea, are there really any spins that would be really competitive in all breed competition? I think it is a great way to get as many spins entered as possible, who may have otherwise stayed home for fear they had no chance.

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Re: really!

Post by Doc E » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:33 pm

There's plenty of room for both.
Specific breed trails/tests are fine as are the come one come all trials/tests.

How many folks that have Pointers or a V-dog breed or a Spinone like to have a Pointing Lab title :roll: :roll:



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Re: really!

Post by ultracarry » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:35 pm

Guessing its for their nationals like Brazos pointed out..... Interesting that they would have a HB stake though.

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Re: really!

Post by Chukar12 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:37 pm

I didn't see a HB stake?

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Re: really!

Post by Cajun Casey » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:38 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:The event is being put on by the Spinone Club of America. Think about that.
It's a National, duh. We have one coming up for ISCA in March at my dogs' trainer's. Breed national trials are always limited. Sometimes they open the hunt tests to all breeds, but not always.
Last edited by Cajun Casey on Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: really!

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:03 pm

Glad someone else caught that.

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Re: really!

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:07 pm

Doc, my V is training to attempt to be the first pointing breed to get his Senior Hunt Retrieving title. Does that count? :D

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Re: really!

Post by ACooper » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:11 pm

Winchey wrote:I think it is a good idea, are there really any spins that would be really competitive in all breed competition? I think it is a great way to get as many spins entered as possible, who may have otherwise stayed home for fear they had no chance.
This^

Several pointed out it is their national trial. I look at it this way, if a spin dog was what I was after I would be looking for the best Spinone to bred/or get a pup from. You just would find out much about the best Spinone in an all bred trial.

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Re: really!

Post by RoostersMom » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:43 pm

Maybe the Kentucky Derby should be open to all breeds? Those quarter horses are FAST.....

Why can't each breed put championship titles on dogs within the breed? Admittedly, I've only run in one FT, and it was a walking FT, not a horseback event, but I do know many folks that compete in different dog venues. I don't see why there has to be such division among sporting dog enthusiasts. Can't we admit that there is no "one trial" that can determine the best of many breeds? We don't breed for the same things, so why should a Spinone or a GWP be expected to compete against an EP?

To each his own - we spend a lot of time volunteering for our respective breeds in many different ways....why can't a breed club hold breed-only events? How does that harm anyone? I ran with a Spinone at a hunt test - I assume it was a good example of the breed, but it would never have been under consideration at any field trial I've ever attended. I'd hate to have the owner opt out totally of any field trialing because they had to run to EP standards.

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Re: really!

Post by dan v » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:11 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:The event is being put on by the Spinone Club of America. Think about that.
Here's the deal. Many many FT's are put on by parent clubs. Unless your local club is a member of AKC your FT is a parent club event. For instance. The North Country Gordon Setter Club of MN puts on a FT...and we get to print on the premium, North Country Gordon Setter Club of MN, Member AKC. Whereas a Gordon Setter Club based in central Wisconsin, who is NOT a member of AKC, puts on a FT (or HT) that event premium has Gordon Setter Club of America printed on it.

I'd doubt there are very many independent Spinone clubs in the US.

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Re: really!

Post by dan v » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:16 pm

Winchey wrote:I think it is a good idea, are there really any spins that would be really competitive in all breed competition? I think it is a great way to get as many spins entered as possible, who may have otherwise stayed home for fear they had no chance.
They have to figure out a way in which to identify the best dogs in THEIR breed. And they aren't likely to do that in all breed competition. Then one of two things will happen, they will develop a closed system of FT'ing, modeled after the Brit model, or a the Weim model...and maintain the uniqueness of their breed.....or as they identify the better animals they will breed dogs in which to compete in all breed events, and probably change how they see their breed.

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Re: really!

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:32 pm

They are having their "National Specialty Celebration" that same week so I'm pretty sure this is their Nationals and is being held in conjunction with that event. They only have 500 members nationwide and 3 clubs so I HIGHLY doubt that this trial would Be allowed compete against that. Yes REALLY!

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Re: really!

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:33 pm

Confirmed, both events are in IL within miles of each other.

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Re: really!

Post by Doc E » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:42 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:Doc, my V is training to attempt to be the first pointing breed to get his Senior Hunt Retrieving title. Does that count? :D
EXCELENT ! ! !
Which venue ? AKC ? HRC ? NAHRA ?



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Re: really!

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:48 pm

Doc, The AKC made the retrieving titles available to the versatile breeds. A Vizsla named Grant became the first pointing breed to get it's JH so I have to raise the stakes on him. :D

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Re: really!

Post by Doc E » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:07 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:Doc, The AKC made the retrieving titles available to the versatile breeds. A Vizsla named Grant became the first pointing breed to get it's JH so I have to raise the stakes on him. :D
HRC and NAHRA allow them too.................... Thus my question.



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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:40 pm

Maybe those will be titles number 25& 26. :D

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by orbirdhunter » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:00 pm

I have no problems with any club putting on any kind of trial or event however they want to.....Its their club they can set it up as they see fit...
If i was a Spinone owner/breeder and i wanted to evaluate breeding stock one easy way to evaluate field work would be to be at a closed trial....

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by bb560m » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:08 pm

i hope they get the 4 entries required to run each stake!

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:11 pm

That's why they're holding the trial in conjunction with their Specialty. They have events listed for that whole week so I'm sure they won't have any problem getting the minimum.
Last edited by Brazosvalleyvizslas on Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by jcbuttry8 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:14 pm

I have much more respect for a club that closes there trial for their own reasons then a club that runs an open all breed trial and then tells you that they are full and your pointer can't run. Then you show up at said trial and find they are only running six dogs in the said event. It happens, been there done that.

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by bb560m » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:25 pm

jcbuttry8 wrote:I have much more respect for a club that closes there trial for their own reasons then a club that runs an open all breed trial and then tells you that they are full and your pointer can't run. Then you show up at said trial and find they are only running six dogs in the said event. It happens, been there done that.

Joe
GSP Club of Middle Tenn - calling them out. Told full - a bunch of stakes had odd # of dogs and only 70 or so running total.

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Re: really!

Post by Winchey » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:36 pm

Wyndancer wrote:
Winchey wrote:I think it is a good idea, are there really any spins that would be really competitive in all breed competition? I think it is a great way to get as many spins entered as possible, who may have otherwise stayed home for fear they had no chance.
They have to figure out a way in which to identify the best dogs in iTHEIR breed. And they aren't likely to do that in all breed competition. Then one of two things will happen, they will develop a closed system of FT'ing, modeled after the Brit model, or a the Weim model...and maintain the uniqueness of their breed.....or as they identify the better animals they will breed dogs in which to compete in all breed events, and probably change how they see their breed.
I am all for all breed competition as I have expressed before, and like what you are doing with your gordons.

In this instance it makes perfect sense to me why they would close the trial. I also hope that if they were to develop a few special animals that would be competitive in an all breed trial that they be campaigned in all breed trials.

I have a Small Munsterlander and wish they did that.

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by shags » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:55 pm

As I understand, the spin folks have no desire to be competitive against all breeds. They want to protect and preserve what makes Spinones, Spinones.

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by cjuve » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:06 pm

I feel closed breed trials are a good thing, there is no reason that a test should be looked down upon just because they restrict entry to other breeds as long as they are judging against the specific breed standard. I feel that it shows that the people have the betterment of their breed in mind.

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by Cajun Casey » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:08 pm

shags wrote:As I understand, the spin folks have no desire to be competitive against all breeds. They want to protect and preserve what makes Spinones, Spinones.
Spinoni is the plural.

It is my understanding that the breed exhibits some characteristics in the field that makes all breed competition a poor choice for them. After all, it is about breed first.

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by Neil » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:21 pm

There are a number of American Field trials that are open to pointers and English setters only, the Alamaba and Continental Ch. come to mind. Are they a joke? Do you think they are afraid of the competition?

A slight clarification on Britt FCs, they must have a 3 point win in a trial held by a Britt club, in can be open to other breeds. Same is true for qualifying for the nationals.

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:46 pm

How many breeds open their National Trial to other breeds. It doesn't work real well to have a GSP be the pointer National Ch. and the same is true of every other breed.

Ezzy

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Re: really!

Post by AHGSP » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:46 am

ezzy333 wrote:
larue wrote:this is why trials should not be limited to a breed.

http://www.akc.org/events/search/index_ ... ed_breed=N
So what are you saying, only certain breeds should be allowed to have trials, all trials should have to be run to your standards, or are you just upset that you can't enter? I think it is great we have trials where most anyone can enter but there sure isn't anything wrong with any breed wanting to have trials for their breed like Britts and GSP's do. And I also am a believer that ever club should be able to do what they can handle both physically and monitarily without someone else deciding for them.

Ezzy
I may be wrong Ezzy, but other than National Parent Club Events; I'm not familiar with, nor can I think of a single GSP Club in the Country that closes any of its weekend type Stakes to GSP's only.


Personally, I don't have a problem with closed, or partially closed Breed Trials and understand both the need of the Brittany's to earn their way to their National's; as well as having the ability to compete against ones own Breed to determine the best for breeding purposes. What I do have a problem with and I brought up here a couple weeks ago that few seemed willing to touch on, is when those closed Breed points are used toward ALL BREED Ranking in AKC. That, I call BS.

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by Karen » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:27 am

jcbuttry8 wrote:I have much more respect for a club that closes there trial for their own reasons then a club that runs an open all breed trial and then tells you that they are full and your pointer can't run. Then you show up at said trial and find they are only running six dogs in the said event. It happens, been there done that.

Joe
Joe, your stake may not have looked full, but with some clubs, adult stakes get priority over juvenile stakes. The clubs I belong to will only accept entries equal to 20 (or 22, I don't remember which) adult braces per day.

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by dan v » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:00 am

I think part of the confusion comes when you go to the AKC link. You don't see the event listed as a National Championship. Now, you may wonder why that is......AKC requires a breed club to hold a FT (designated as their FUTURE NFT) for something like 4-5 years...before AKC will recognize it as a Championship. I'm sure some of the Irish FT'ers can attest to the length of time the ISCA has been working towards a Walking NFT. I think 2013 it will be recognized by AKC as a National Championship...after some 4-5 years.

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by jimbo&rooster » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:03 am

it doesn't bother me that they run closed stakes. what does bother me is when they listed on the AKC site as open to all breeds and then the week beforehand they call you and tell you " oh we're sorry we have a full steak and we're going to close it to Britts only".

Jim

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by shags » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:33 am

This is the Spins' first AKC field trial.

Best wishes for a successful event and good luck to all participants.

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by KwikIrish » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:38 am

Spinoni will never perform to a level competitive with an all breed trial AND be able to exist as they were intended. This breed was meant to be extremely mythodical in their performance. They have had hunting dogs fail in hunt tests because the judge didnt understand the breeds hunting characteristics. I hope they never will become competitive in AB trials, as this means they have become everything they are not meant to be.

National trials can always be held as limited to that breed- as it shoul be IMO
Hunt tests can be breed limited ONLY if they are held in conjunction with their show national.
A club can only hold a championship after they achieve entries which achieve a major for multiple year in a row, I want to say 3, might be 4... That is why the Irish walking national has only been a waking national and not a championship in years past.

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by larue » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:25 am

This is my spin.The fc is a performance based title,not a standard based title.
There should be a minimum standard of performance to get championship points,and the best way to ensure this is to have enough entries to have a dog clearly perform at the level required.
I ask you this,is a breed who was bred to not run fast,but to lope around at a very slow pace a breed that is an example of what we want in a trial dog?
I have no doubt that there will be a fc sp some day,by running in breed specific trials only,and that is my issue.

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by V-John » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:38 am

larue wrote:This is my spin.The fc is a performance based title,not a standard based title.
There should be a minimum standard of performance to get championship points,and the best way to ensure this is to have enough entries to have a dog clearly perform at the level required.
I ask you this,is a breed who was bred to not run fast,but to lope around at a very slow pace a breed that is an example of what we want in a trial dog?
I have no doubt that there will be a fc sp some day,by running in breed specific trials only,and that is my issue.
You have to have some sort of standard on which to judge the animal's performance.
As you said, there should a be a minimum standard of performance. As each breed is different, why should they all be held to the same standard? Just because they are different breeds does not mean that one is better then the other... They are simply different.

I imagine that your example of what you want in a trial dog is very much different what the Spinoni folks want. Two different sets of opinions. Does it make your opinion better then theirs? No, it just makes it different.

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by jimbo&rooster » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:28 am

Ive read through this thread and several others discussing these breed trials....

Here is how I see it. There are a million athletes out there, but only some of them choose to play basketball. However basketball takes a specific set of skills, but ALL basketball players are essentially evaluted on the same field (within reason). Shouldnt a field trial be a field trial? My assumption is that if you choose to COMPETE in a trial you are making that decision, based on the confidence that you feel your dog is good enough to compete with ALL comers. I will put my dogs on the ground against anyone (not saying Ill win, but I WILL try) and Im sure most here feel the same way. If a specific breed is not capable of being competitive in an all breed FT maybe the owners should play another game, or choose a more suitable breed for the game they like.

I dont feel that a dog who has gained an FC or AFC in closed trials has really proven much.....

Jim

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by KwikIrish » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:36 am

Should every pointing breed be expected to perform the same in style, mechanism, performance, etc?

IMO though all pointing breeds were created to produce game birds, not all of them are supposed to perform the same way, just as they shouldn't all look the same.

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by Karen » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:42 am

The AKC has set SOME standards...the parent breed clubs have set some standards. They are NOT the same for all breeds per the AKC rule book. This is no different.

Why would you want to demand a Spin run like a pointer or a Brittany? If I wanted a dog that ran like a pointer, I'd get a pointer.

Hats off to the Spin Club of America for putting on their first field trial! Hoping there will be MANY MORE in their future! And hoping they don't allow the FT purests to change their breed, the way so many other breeds have.

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by RayGubernat » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:47 am

larue wrote:This is my spin.The fc is a performance based title,not a standard based title.
There should be a minimum standard of performance to get championship points,and the best way to ensure this is to have enough entries to have a dog clearly perform at the level required.
I ask you this,is a breed who was bred to not run fast,but to lope around at a very slow pace a breed that is an example of what we want in a trial dog?
I have no doubt that there will be a fc sp some day,by running in breed specific trials only,and that is my issue.

As you may know, I want a certain type of performance out of my dogs, which is why I run pointers from American Field all age and shooting dog parentage. That said, I completely understand that folks from a specific breed, which has been selectively bred to hunt in a certain manner...want to keep it that way. i want that too.

In all breed competition, whether it is AF (shooting dog or all age) or AKC all age(not necessarilty Gun Dog), the gold standard is that of the AF pointer and setter. In terms of a specific breed or group of breeds which perform in a similar manner, that gold standard may not apply. Pointing dog trials are closed to flushing dogs and vice versa. Why? Probably mostly because they hunt differently and a different standard of performance is applicable.

It makes perfect sense to me to have a trial or stake closed to all but those breeds which hunt in a similar manner. It makes perfect sense to me, for example, to have a gun dog stake in a Weimaraner or Vizsla trial limited to continental breeds only and then to have judges who will judge according to the AKC gun dog standard. In many breeds there are simply not enough viable contenders to run a trial without the spoonsoring club losing its shirt so there has to be accomodation made.

I am not necessarily suggesting that we "level the playing field" just for the sake of doing that. I am suggesting that, depending on the breed, it may make sense to compare apples to apples, in terms of performance characteristics.

Folks do tend to like different things, for lots of reasons. Different is not necessarily bad or good...it can be, simply...different. Why not value and respect the diversity, even if it is not your personal choice?


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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by V-John » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:53 am

jimbo&rooster wrote:Ive read through this thread and several others discussing these breed trials....

Here is how I see it. There are a million athletes out there, but only some of them choose to play basketball. However basketball takes a specific set of skills, but ALL basketball players are essentially evaluted on the same field (within reason). Shouldnt a field trial be a field trial? My assumption is that if you choose to COMPETE in a trial you are making that decision, based on the confidence that you feel your dog is good enough to compete with ALL comers. I will put my dogs on the ground against anyone (not saying Ill win, but I WILL try) and Im sure most here feel the same way. If a specific breed is not capable of being competitive in an all breed FT maybe the owners should play another game, or choose a more suitable breed for the game they like.

I dont feel that a dog who has gained an FC or AFC in closed trials has really proven much.....

Jim
Um, no, basketball players are evaluated differently. Centers/big men are evaluated on different skills then say a guard is.
Dwight Howard isn't known for his ability to handle the ball or shoot threes or find the open shooter. But Steve Nash isn't evaluated per se, on his ability to block shots, shoot from the paint, etc,etc. that Howard is. Both are attempting to find an end result of winning, but both do it differently.

Dogs, same thing. Pointers are held to a different standard that some other breeds are.

Either way, good for the Spin Club for attempting to set a standard for their own breed.

Would it make folks happier if those in breed groups with championship titles that are breed specific were somehow designated as such?

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by dan v » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:57 am

jimbo&rooster wrote: I dont feel that a dog who has gained an FC or AFC in closed trials has really proven much.....

Jim
The dog has proven to be one of the top tier dogs within the breed. The following is part of a small article I wrote maybe 10 years ago.
The Spinone Italiano recognized by the AKC in 2000, has been characterized as a
dog "...that does not hunt for themselves but for their master" and is "not too fast in their speed while
searching out game." (source SCOA) While the AKC breed standard states, “He has a remarkable tendency
for an extended and fast trotting gait.” Now, how will that measure up to the unwritten standard applied in
an all-breed stake? Well the answer will be, it doesn’t. Should people that have Spinone’s really care if
their dogs can win in all pointing breed competition? I rather think, they don’t.

Are restricted breed trials the answer? Well, yes and no. Conceivably restricted breed trials face a problem,
lack of dogs in the area. What does a person do if the their area of the country doesn’t have enough of
“their” breed to hold a trial, or maybe there is a small group of dogs but not enough to make a major stake?
In the AKC a dog needs a win in a stake that has 13 or more starters, without a major a Championship
cannot be awarded. All-breed trials would then be their only venue. Yes, there will be individuals that
manage to hold their own in all pointing breed competition and these very dogs, when entered in restricted
breed trials, can help keep the bar high when entered in the restricted breed trial.

Looking back at the Spinone example, how will they fair in all-breed competition? It’s quite possible that
in an area of a larger population of dogs, enough to have Spinone only trials, dogs of lesser caliber could become Field Champions. Dogs of higher caliber in areas with smaller populations competing in all-breed
trials may not be able to finish titles. The dog world is pretty fickle when it comes to breeding dogs. Most
people seem unable to see the quality of the dog unless it has a title. I’m not advocating making it easier to
finish Field Champions, just that in the scope of dog breeding, advances may be brought about faster by
breeding to the better dogs and a restricted breed stake can identify those animals and help accomplish that
goal.

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Re: really! (why trials should not be limited to a breed.)

Post by Chukar12 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:25 am

Wait...how do I become a moderator person?
I am banning all human sports to dog sports analogies...
There are so many different and valid points of view here...I have no doubt that people close trials because they yearn for a title on a dog and they want to limit competition...it will still be a mediocre or below dog after it has its title and anybody who cares to have involvement with the dog will know it by observation or reputation. That dog will never really be a factor in breed performance venues, too many eyes out there. A dogs body of work does not end with an AKC title for anyone that I know that is serious about breeding and performance... and those of us who believe that we can make a rule or control anybody else's values and morals via a rule need to pay more attention to life not just dog games.

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