Concept collars.

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:35 pm

Here are some collars I've made recently. They're just concepts right now, but I think we've got some real home run ideas here and wanted to thanks a couple of the folks on this board for suggesting the ideas.

Jim K suggested we do a broader collar in high-visibility as an upgrade to the reversable high-visibility collars a lot of folks use in field events. He said they use a 3/4 inch collar with them so they have something to clip the lead to. Well, I've just finished making the 3" Competitor concept collar. It will come with a stainless steel buckle and D ring and down the line will try to offer it in a reversible option. Thanks, Jim! Here are some media on the collar.

Here's a video. This was shot with my cell phone, so the distance shots are not that great, but you get the idea. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=47 ... =2&theater

Here are some photos of it on Moxy. Doesn't have a D-ring on it yet. Three-inch D-rings are hard to find! Got one coming in the mail. I can't believe how much more three inch hardware is. You have to have a small fortune to place a decent-sized order.

Then Crazy Boy also showed a lot of interest in a Competitor with a center ring, so I had to concede and find a way to make it work. He suggested using a halter square which is an absolutely phenomenal idea, but you just can't find 1.5" halter squares anywhere (if you have a source, please PM me!). So, with the new line of collar - the SofTouch - we're going to be introducing a square center ring and on the Competitor we're going to start attaching a ringing ring. The ringing ring doesn't look hefty enough, but I can loop the collar over the ball on my pickup and pull my dad's car 50 ft. with my check cord. Can't thank you enough, man!

Here is a photo of the SofTouch collar with the square ring (After a suggestion with AHumphers, we're also making a blaze orange SofTouch check cord out... probably one of my favorite products in our line up):

Here's a photo of a Competitor with the ringing ring (I would go with a center-ring, but this is less expensive and will keep the cost down for our customers) - The increased size of the ring was also a new concept, but I think it's overkill:

Ghosted3 · Post by **Ghosted3** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:56 pm

Looking great as I expect everything you make! Have you thought about making the full neck collars that are pretty thick aimed at dogs that are used in boar hunts. I know the demographic for that might not be as large, but might be worth checking into.

Corry

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:00 pm

I use the 1.5 inch collars from Dogs Unlimited and I think they are the perfect size. 3 inch looks kinda ridiculous to me!

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:49 pm

Elkhunter wrote:I use the 1.5 inch collars from Dogs Unlimited and I think they are the perfect size. 3 inch looks kinda ridiculous to me!

Looks like a cut collar.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:05 pm

ACooper wrote:
Elkhunter wrote:I use the 1.5 inch collars from Dogs Unlimited and I think they are the perfect size. 3 inch looks kinda ridiculous to me!
Looks like a cut collar.

Too narrow and they have multiple buckles.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:07 pm

I believe they are aimed at some of the AA and Shooting dog guys who want high visibility from a long distance if I remember correctly after speaking with Rowdy.

Looking good Rowdy. Don't know how crazy I am about the look of the 3 inch collar but ,visually, it sure stands out. I would like to see some of the collars and leads if you have any made and chance to post some pics.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:16 pm

Just out of curiosity, wonder how the 3 inch collar works as a training tool to help dogs point with a higher head or if you could rig an adapter for a collar receiver and use it as a wider belly collar?

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:29 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:I believe they are aimed at some of the AA and Shooting dog guys who want high visibility from a long distance if I remember correctly after speaking with Rowdy.

Looking good Rowdy. Don't know how crazy I am about the look of the 3 inch collar but ,visually, it sure stands out. I would like to see some of the collars and leads if you have any made and chance to post some pics.

Tommy, you're right on. The three-inch collars are not meant to be a daily-worn collar. I've got it on Moxy right now to get an idea of how much it restricts her, but this was designed strictly for field use, for high visibility at long distances. I think it looks a little rediculous too, but she sure is easy to see coming through the woods or along way off.

I'll try to get some photos up of the check cord and leads. The cool thing about the SofTouch is that you can get it all muddy, run over it, grease it and mark it up, then just give it a wipe with a wet rag and it's fully restored to a bright blaze.

Big Dave · Post by **Big Dave** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:17 pm

I like the halter square for a center ring collar.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:53 pm

I also look forward to seeing the checkcord. Collars look good.

Vision · Post by **Vision** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:06 pm

There is no room for a tracking collar with the 3" wide collar

mudhunter · Post by **mudhunter** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:47 pm

3" looks like she is suffering from a neck accident !!

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:19 pm

Haha. Moxy's a smaller dog, about forty pounds. I was afraid after seeing how big the collar was to see how much room she had. I left it on her for a couple hours this afternoon and she managed just fine. I'm going to finish the collar and try it a little more before I decide if it's actually going to be used. I really like the 1.5" collars, but there was so much interest in one that I had to make it. I was thinking of a 2", but that's so close to 1.5" that it seemed redundant. Three inches seems big enough to meaningfully differ from the 1.5" and is definitely visible. Not sure. Maybe I'll take it to some events and let people put it on their dogs to try it out and get more opinions.

Ghosted3 · Post by **Ghosted3** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:36 pm

Maybe a nice happy middle place like 2 1/4 or something?

Corry

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:52 am

Maybe...

Here are some photos of the leads. They also come in brown and in a few weeks they'll come in black, too. Nickel or brass hardware.

Snap lead:

Slip lead:

I'm working a thirteen hour shift the next two days, so I won't be able to get photos of the check cord up until Saturday. Stay tuned.

Post by **jcbuttry8** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:23 am

One issue I see with the three inch is the inability to throw on a tracker collar also. Even though the two inch seems redundant, I think that you still get a little more color on the dog and still have the room to put the garmin collar on. I won't run a dog in competition without one. Especially in the Northeast woods, and near some of the major roads that we run next to.

Just my thoughts, Keep up the good work Rowdy. Really like the clip rings on the collars. Makes me want to send mine back for the addition.

Joe

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:07 am

i have garmin alpha.do to the shock pins you cant hook leash to alpha.
so you have to use another collar for your leash.
so the 2 inch elastic high vis collar i most likely will not use as you cant hook your leash to it.
a lot of folks are going to astro 220/320 and now alpha.

how things can change quick.without a e-collar i think 2 inch high vis is very nice and i STILL USE IT ON MY LAB AS HE IS CLOSE WORKING, DOES NOT POINT . so i dont need a e-collar or gps on lab.so i still use high vis elastic collar on my lab with small 3/4 inch collar for leash behind it.

but on my SM , i dont.
i have garmin alpha.

what i would like too see NOW, things change so fast is way to hook leash to garmin alpha.
this would allow only alpha on whiskers neck ,not 2 collars.

THAT WOULD BE BIG STEP FORWARD .the shock pins will pull into dogs throat if you just hook leash to alpha.THERE HAS TO BE WAY TO ONLY USE THE GARMIN ALPHA WITH LEASH ON DOGS NECK.

THIS WOULD BE GREAT STEP FORWARD. ONE THAT I HOPE SOMEONE FINDS A SOLUTION.
I hate putting 2 collars on dogs neck.if this could be done,THEN 2 INCH WIDE HI-VIS COLLAR would be nice behind the alpha on neck.make the hi-vis collar elastic and very light .

alpha collar is 1 inch wide.

3 inch collar is too big, 2 inch high vis is perfect in my opinion ,bbut with the gps/e-collar i believe most will be using them down road more and more .
but on close working dogs, no they will still use only collar and i feel the 2 inch one made very light will work nice.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:25 am

jcbuttry8 wrote:One issue I see with the three inch is the inability to throw on a tracker collar also. Even though the two inch seems redundant, I think that you still get a little more color on the dog and still have the room to put the garmin collar on. I won't run a dog in competition without one. Especially in the Northeast woods, and near some of the major roads that we run next to.

Just my thoughts, Keep up the good work Rowdy. Really like the clip rings on the collars. Makes me want to send mine back for the addition.

Joe

good info. maybe the elastic one is not way too go.
i like it because its LIGHT around dogs neck. but you cant hook leash to it.
so maybe we need 2 inch LIGHT , feather light collar that can handle leash behind the astros/alphas.

alpha only has 1 inch collar exposed on right side as the rest is covered somewhat with the gps feature and antenna.

sooooooooooooooooo,we need 2 inch, VERY LIGHT,VERY THIN hi-vis collar that can handle a leash on dog to be put behind the astro/alpha.

that i would buy in minute. but if its not LIGHT,THIN ,i would not like it.
heavy collar behind a astro/alpha is not good.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:01 am

I use 2" running collars with a Garmin. You get 3" of hi viz color and still use a leash on the 2" collar.

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:19 pm

I wonder if you could put the 3" on your dog then just strap the Garmin to the collar itself. Or, what if the 3" collar had a few D rings attached around the collar so you could thread the Garmin strap through the D rings so it strapped right over the 3" collar? Or, one last thought, what if the collar had two slits, one on each side of the 3" collar where you would slide the strap of the Garmin underneath the 3" collar so the Garmin strap was concealed by the 3" collar?

Does anyone have any ideas? The 3" visibility does look just stupid when it's on a dog like Moxy and she's standing still, but there's no denying that it's DEFINITELY visible at long distances. I think on a beef cake of a birddog it would look good, but aesthetics aside, I think it is functional. Any opinions on this?

Post by **jcbuttry8** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:31 pm

I see what you are saying but my collar is black. Sooo, If I strap my collar on top of a three inch collar then i get two inches of orange. Plus If I try to catch a few braces before our brace to get a handle on the course or just to watch the competition then I now have to struggle to run my straps through a collar or D ring? Just does not sound sufficient or time saving to me, but hey that's me. Again, not everyone will have a dog that runs with a tracking collar. So, you have it made, you know how it looks, and you have a 1.5" that you know is good. Make a two inch and market all three. The 1.5 is a great collar. Bama wears it all the time. I do however like the soft touch collar with the square ring above and may have to get one, and use this orange collar for running trials.

"bleep" you!!! stop making great stuff already.

Joe

Ghosted3 · Post by **Ghosted3** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:36 pm

Could you cut a section out large enough for the Garmin Alpha box to fit snugly through your 3 inch collar and then work out something for the collar for the alpha to still hook up (if needed), maybe find a way to bracket it into the center of the collar?

Corry

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:43 pm

That's a good idea. Just cut a square section right out of the collar so you could put the Garmin on then strap the orange collar right over it. Definitely something to consider.

Ghosted3 · Post by **Ghosted3** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:50 pm

I thought it sounded simple, but making it work could be a different story, but I have faith in ya Rowdy.

Corry

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:00 pm

Stoneface wrote: Does anyone have any ideas? The 3" visibility does look just stupid when it's on a dog like Moxy and she's standing still, but there's no denying that it's DEFINITELY visible at long distances. I think on a beef cake of a birddog it would look good, but aesthetics aside, I think it is functional. Any opinions on this?

It would look better just spray painting the whole dog orange than putting that big ugly collar on it and shaming it to death.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:23 pm

being that most use e-collar ,now a lot are going to astro/alpha we need more color on our dogs neck .but astro is gps then you add e-collar.too much on neck of dog to add anymore.
with astro/alpha we are not using bells anymore.but in future you most likely will only see the GARMIN ALPHA on dogs neck ,not astro-e-collar.
so bright collars that can be seen i believe may save dogs life without bells letting folks know your pup is around in woods.

so, we have to find a way to put more color on dogs neck. something that is not heavy or huge or just looks bad .
if astro/alpha could handle a leash,it would be easy.
all you would need is high vis elastic very thin 2 inch collars that are out now.

putting another heavy collar behind the astro/alpha for leash is not good idea.
too much on pups neck .
maybe nylon 2 inch collar high vis for leash may be answer.something that is light but strong enough for leash.
i dont know.
my opinion is we want less on dogs neck than more on it.
we want bright hi-vis something on the pups neck .1 inch collar does not cut it .
but we dont want a lot of collars on neck to get a lot of visibilty on our dog.

there has to be way to do it that a pup can be seen and not have a lot of material on their neck.

if garmin would have put a 2 inch collar on alpha instead of 1 inch and way to use your leash on the alpha,THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD SOLUTION.
1 collar with extra inch of hi-vis and able to handle leash.

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:02 pm

Maybe we could manufactuee the first field dog spray paint. The slogan would be, 'kill ypur dog with either shame or fumes.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:51 pm

Your collars look nice and the square D seems a really good idea.

Been getting by tho, from the apps to the U.P. to the plains, with a standard nylon collar for ID and an Astro or e-collar as needed, for decades.
Not sure I would want to hunt if I needed more color than that standard collar provides....plus the dog itself, of course.
Guess trialing adds a much more important dimension...otherwise, seems all a bit overblown.

Saddle · Post by **Saddle** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:58 pm

All this work on these collars you may not even be allowed to run them in field trials anyway.

Ghosted3 · Post by **Ghosted3** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:23 pm

Why not be glad that we the consumer have someone who actually takes notes and makes an item that a person suggests and then puts it out there for others to check out and see how much interest there is. Is this new collar my style or would I get it, most likely not, but I personally feel great to know that if I have an idea for a collar that might not follow the popular styles that Rowdy would not just chat with me about it but he would most likely make me a great one. Good luck getting something like that done with 99.9% of the other companies out there that make collars.

Corry

Saddle · Post by **Saddle** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:39 pm

I'm glad you feel good corry. The concept of this collar was for better visibility a field trials if I'm not mistaken. My whole point was they are pretty particular about what you put on your dog at a trial and this may not go over.

Ghosted3 · Post by **Ghosted3** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:53 pm

Saddle wrote:I'm glad you feel good corry. The concept of this collar was for better visibility a field trials if I'm not mistaken. My whole point was they are pretty particular about what you put on your dog at a trial and this may not go over.

I wasn't aiming my comment at you, what you said was a valid point, but there are a few other comments on that were not really that nice or needed.
Sorry if I made you feel like I was pointing you out or something like that, it was not my intentions.

Corry

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:56 pm

Saddle wrote:I'm glad you feel good corry. The concept of this collar was for better visibility a field trials if I'm not mistaken. My whole point was they are pretty particular about what you put on your dog at a trial and this may not go over.

Another thing to think about is where are the e-collar, tracking collar, and identification collar going to go?

Ezzy

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:38 pm

I may have been guilty of a me complex in designing this collar. I never run my dog with anything other than an ID collar and eCollar and often times just leave the eCollar at the pickup. When I starting thinking about building this collar, I didn't even consider any of that stuff because I never use it.

Corry, thanks for the kinds words, man. That's my whole concept. In business school they preach that the objective to any business is to increase owners' wealth, or to make more money. I disagree with this in a MAJOR way. In my opinion, the objective of any business is to achieve the goals of the owners. If the owner just wants to make more and more money, then that's the point of the business. That's not my objective. I want to make money, sure, but I'm more concerned with making ENOUGH money - I have no intention of becoming rich. The other goals I personally have are doing something I enjoy, achieving independent freedom and helping and all that that entails. I think you can measure a person's worth with an equation (Person's Worth = Amount of good done - amount of bad done). I take a whole heck of a lot of pride in great service in any venture I've taken on and believe in a premium value which, according to the business school, is worth divided by price. Give them more than they paid for and expected.

Saddle · Post by **Saddle** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:18 pm

Good point ezzy.

Ghosted3 · Post by **Ghosted3** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:27 pm

ezzy333 wrote:Another thing to think about is where are the e-collar, tracking collar, and identification collar going to go?

Ezzy

I mentioned in an earlier post about the possibility, since the collar is so large, to maybe make cut outs and mount the garman alpha part of a collar in there. There is probably enough material there to remove a small enough section to mount both the GPS and Ecollar on a collar and it still be sturdy.

Corry

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:47 pm

Rowdy -

Seems to me that 3" might be a little wider than some folks are comfortable with, for one reason or another. I have seen 2" hi Viz collars and they don't look out of place to me, especially on a larger dog.

One other thought... It might make sense to trim the tag end of the dollar down to 1 1/2" or even 1" and use standard hardware. That would keep the costs down and the weight of the iron should keep the buckles low on the dog's neck(as long as the collar isn't on too tight) so the cutout section wouldn't compromise visibility.

RayG

crazyboy · Post by **crazyboy** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:01 pm

The softouch material is awesome! It really is much softer than I would've ever imagined, yet repels water and has the durability needed for sporting dogs. That halter square looks awesome too!

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:02 pm

If you offered both a 2" and a 1" of the same colors you could cover all markets. 2 collars create a "hinge" for ease of movement and more airflow. The tracking/training device can go on the 1" and both could have rings for leashes. You already have the 1.5" for the everyday person so why not cover the competition market by offering a 2" and a 1" of the collors that we run? No need to make a 3" that accepts a tracker/ trainer when there is much more flexibility as a company to offer more simpler products.

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:10 pm

Is the soft touch collar 1"?

Ghosted3 · Post by **Ghosted3** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:12 am

Don't hold me to it, but I would imagine that it is 1.5 like his other products, but I could be wrong. I am sure Rowdy will chime in soon with the correct answer soon.

Corry

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:23 pm

The SofTouch products are all just one inch for now. We may have them available in two inches in brown and black before long, but for now just gauging to see what kind of reaction we get to it. So far, though, the reaction has been great and a lot of people like it. It's actually a PVC gel coating around a nylon mesh. The stuff is the essence of the word "supple." It's hard to describe until you hold it, but it handles like silk and holds up like hide. I took a lead and collar into work on Thursday to pass around and get opinions and critiques (my co-workers are my test group) and had three orders to fill by yesterday.

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:53 pm

Here's a video of the SofTouch from our workout tonight.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=47 ... =2&theater

Here's a photo of it.

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:10 pm

I like the 1.5" look. But the soft touch in a check cord is an idea that might be interesting. I am getting early onset (

dont disillusion me here...humor me) arthritis in my pinkie fingers and the rope CC is tough for me to hold sometimes.

I agree the 3" collar is strange looking but I also agree the taper and using 1.5" hardware could be a good idea. Might also allow a bit more freedom of movement under chin.

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:14 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:If you offered both a 2" and a 1" of the same colors you could cover all markets. 2 collars create a "hinge" for ease of movement and more airflow. The tracking/training device can go on the 1" and both could have rings for leashes. You already have the 1.5" for the everyday person so why not cover the competition market by offering a 2" and a 1" of the collors that we run? No need to make a 3" that accepts a tracker/ trainer when there is much more flexibility as a company to offer more simpler products.

Also think this could be true. You could perhaps taper the 2" to the 1.5 hardware also.