Cryptorchidism

[cbump]

So my twelve week old Vizsla still only has one testicle descended. I don't know much about the condition but I have had one vet tell me it's genetic and that it can cause cancer so he will need to be neutered. She recommended neutering at 6 months.
What do you guys think?
I'm not too happy about having no choice but to neuter due to a genetic disorder when I paid 1000 for a dog. Should I contact the breeder?

Thanks for the help.

[DougB]

Yes, you should.
http://www.akcchf.org/research/funded-r ... /0882.html
http://www.petwave.com/Dogs/Dog-Health- ... ptoms.aspx

[Ghosted3]

I agree that you should as well.

Corry

[MOOSE]

Can you ever feel it? Or can it be descended down? The only reason I ask is because some boys like to hide them and pull them up and then when they are relaxed they can be brought down. Until everything closes up and it can't drop down I would wait it out. I have known many male dogs who will hide one "boy part" and then when they get closer to that 5 months age or so it drops down and stays down. But if it is way up in the abdominal versus just on the edge then it more than likely won't drop on its own. Either way if it doesn't drop by 6 months I would suggest neutering as well.

[cjhills]

Definetely contact the breeder. If you got the puppy at 8 or 10 weeks a vet can usually tell. If you can feel it it may drop a bit late. If it is in the abdomen he should be neutered. Cj

[Susie]

I had a CBR pup and his other testicle didn't fully descended until he was five months old! I was so obsessed and worried I had everyone feeling the poor guy up every few days...one second it was there and the next it would disappear. Sure happy I didn't have any one talk me into having him altered...he ended up being a very nice stud dog. Give the pup some time.

[cbump]

Thanks, I will definitely contact him. How should I approach the subject? We've had the pup a month now so we are too attached to give him back, so I'm not sure what I want done in the situation. Should I just give him a heads up that his dogs are breeding a genetic disorder and leave it at that or ask for money back or...?

[cbump]

I had a CBR pup and his other testicle didn't fully descended until he was five months old! I was so obsessed and worried I had everyone feeling the poor guy up every few days...one second it was there and the next it would disappear. Sure happy I didn't have any one talk me into having him altered...he ended up being a very nice stud dog. Give the pup some time.

Thanks Susie, we definitely won't be doing anything drastic until at least 6 months so hopefully it will drop.

If it doesn't what is everyone's thoughts on neutering a young bird dog? Will it effect anything?

[cbump]

Hi, in. this link posted above http://www.akcchf.org/research/funded-r ... /0882.html
It says they are akc disqualified in the abstract. Can someone explain this? Does that mean they can not do hunt tests?

[Crystal kennels]

I would wait until this puppy was 5 months old. If the testicle hasn't descended into the scrotum at that point, its not going to. Neutering him will not affect him as a bird dog. I would at this point let the breeder know that he is monorchid and you are 'watching' it but if its doesn't descend you are going to castrate him. Did you buy him as breeding stock?


Judy

[cjhills]

Thanks, I will definitely contact him. How should I approach the subject? We've had the pup a month now so we are too attached to give him back, so I'm not sure what I want done in the situation. Should I just give him a heads up that his dogs are breeding a genetic disorder and leave it at that or ask for money back or...?

I guess if it was one of our puppies we would want a heads up and would at least pay for neutering. if you wanted to return the puppy we would reimburse your purchase price. Most people don't want to do that. because they are too attached. Pretty tough to get back the purchase price and keep the puppy both. Maybe a little different if this pup was sold as a breeding prospect. If not there is very little reason not to neuter.
I have seen neutered dogs in hunt test. Don't know what in the abstract means. Cj

[cbump]

Hi Crystal Kennels,
No I bought him as my first hunt test/upland dog but did think studding him would have been something to look into if he can get some titles.

[cbump]

Thanks, I will definitely contact him. How should I approach the subject? We've had the pup a month now so we are too attached to give him back, so I'm not sure what I want done in the situation. Should I just give him a heads up that his dogs are breeding a genetic disorder and leave it at that or ask for money back or...?

I guess if it was one of our puppies we would want a heads up and would at least pay for neutering. if you wanted to return the puppy we would reimburse your purchase price. Most people don't want to do that. because they are too attached. Pretty tough to get back the purchase price and keep the puppy both. Maybe a little different if this pup was sold as a breeding prospect. If not there is very little reason not to neuter.
I have seen neutered dogs in hunt test. Don't know what in the abstract means. Cj

Thanks, good to know. I wouldn't feel comfortable even approaching the subject of money back if I plan to keep the dog, I just didn't know what was standard in such a situation. We will just keep an eye on it and see what happens.
Does anyone know if neutering cryptorchid dogs is more expensive than regular neutering?

[Karen]

They can do everything an altered dog can do in AKC (hunt tests, field trials, obedience, rally, etc.). The ONLY thing they are disqualified from are dog shows.

Did you purchase this pup with a contract that guaranteed it free of genetic and congenital disease? If so, recourse should be included in the contract.

As far as how to approach this with the breeder, much depends on why you purchased this puppy and what you think is a fair resolution to the issue. You say you're already too attached to return the pup, so that isn't an option.

If it were a pup out of my breeding, and the buyer didn't want to return the pup for a full refund, I would offer 2 options:

1. A free pup from our next litter (which could be as little as a year from now, or as much as 3 yrs from now), or
2. I'd pay to have the pup neutered at my vet if the buyer is local, or I'd refund an amount equal to what my vet would charge to neuter the pup at 6 months of age.

And yes, neutered cryptorchid dogs is more expensive.

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

I agree, most Vizsla breeders that I know have some kind of health guarantee but I'f I was you I would call a Repro Vet and ask if there is anything that can be done. We had one that we weren't going to let leave until it dropped. Our Repro Vet gave him a shot of something (I will try to find what it was) and it dropped within days. She did warn u's that it MAY work so take that for what it's worth. But please don't call the breeder and tell them he's breeding defective dogs. Our Vet told u's that you can't predict when it could happen or which side caused it so unless it keeps showing up in multiple litters of the same combination, they wouldn't worry about it.
There are a few vets on here that you could PM for more opinions. Get as much info and options before contacted the breeder about options.

[cjhills]

I would wait until this puppy was 5 months old. If the testicle hasn't descended into the scrotum at that point, its not going to. Neutering him will not affect him as a bird dog. I would at this point let the breeder know that he is monorchid and you are 'watching' it but if its doesn't descend you are going to castrate him. Did you buy him as breeding stock?


Judy

One other point. If this Dog is a true Monorchid he will only have one testicle anywhere in his body. Not very likely but occasionally happens. In any case if It don't show up he should be neutered. Cj

[mactrout]

I recently had a male that I thought I would have to find a different home for and he finally dropped the second at 7 months old.

[Wildweeds]

Yes you should contact the breeder and yes the breeder if a good one should refund some of the money,you got a pet,pet prices do not command top dollar,Top dollar should mean that IF you WANT to use the dog for breeding you CAN.I wouldn't even bother registering that dog as it serves no point to keep track of a sterilized competitor.

[Munster]

Soooooooooo, then do we have to weigh the option of the damage early spay and neuter can do to a dog, with the possibility of cancer. I think that you can still wait until the dog is 18 months to get him altered. BUt I am pretty sure the pup will need what the testosterone brings to the table with bone and muscle growth. So make sure you ask several vets about it. I truly think some vets have agendas.

[cbump]

Soooooooooo, then do we have to weigh the option of the damage early spay and neuter can do to a dog, with the possibility of cancer. I think that you can still wait until the dog is 18 months to get him altered. BUt I am pretty sure the pup will need what the testosterone brings to the table with bone and muscle growth. So make sure you ask several vets about it. I truly think some vets have agendas.

I know this is old but I wanted to update. Blue is 11 months old now and his testicle never descended. You can see the other on under the skin just to the side of his shaft (sorry). Got another vets opinion that imo knows more than the first one and he said to wait 18-24 months before neutering. He's an awesome dog (see my post in brags forum) so we are still testing and gonna trial him anyways just for the fun.
Thanks for all the info.

[ultracarry]

If you paid 1k for a (vizsla you will get what you pay for.

[cbump]

If you paid 1k for a (vizsla you will get what you pay for.

I don't really know what that is supposed to mean as that is the going rate around here but thanks for the bs comment. I think I got a pretty "bleep" good dog.

[ultracarry]

You obviously didn't get what you thought you paid for. Nicely bred vizslas go $1500-2000, ones health garanteed, titled parents, they usually come with breeders that will take care of this way before you go on a forum posting about problems.

Not a BS comment. Just don't sugar coat.

[shags]

I'm not sure if you mean he has one testicle descended, or both are up in the abdomen somewhere. If one is normal, you might think about asking your vet to remove only the undescended one. That way your dog will have the benefits of testosterone without the possible health problems from the undescended gonad later. My vet did that for one of my dogs; the cost was the same as a full castration with complications of having to dig around looking for that short-corded one

[ezzy333]

You obviously didn't get what you thought you paid for. Nicely bred vizslas go $1500-2000, ones health garanteed, titled parents, they usually come with breeders that will take care of this way before you go on a forum posting about problems.

Not a BS comment. Just don't sugar coat.

I have never seen a Vizsla sell any where near that price around here. There really was no need for that kind of a comment no matter what you coated it with.

Ezzy

[RoostersMom]

Enjoy your dog, I hope you visited with the breeder and have passed the info on to him/her. You got a good price for a "V" - my breeder is in the "above $1,000" range as well.

All of my dogs are spayed or neutered and it absolutely does not negatively affect performance from what my sample size of 10 dogs says. After much research, I might not neuter my new male (nothing to do with breeding - as I am not a breeder and have no plans to put that kind of time into campaigning and showing a dog - much less dealing with breeding them). If I do, I will wait until at least 18 months. If I had concerns (testicle concerns like yours) I wouldn't hesitate to neuter the dog. I really can't discern a difference in my neutered males and intact males I hunt with (well - mine do pay more attention to hunting and less to marking - plus I can run them with females of all kinds with no grab a$$ing).

[V-John]

Good luck with the problem. I would think that it is something that the breeder would take care of.

I've seen one litter go for 1500. The rest, not that high.

[fuzznut]

This is a good food for thought thread for others looking to purchase a puppy. IF, IF you have any thoughts whatsoever of the possibility of breeding a male ( or female) down the road, check and make sure the puppy you are interested in has both testicles descended when you take them home, check the bite, and find out what the disqualifying faults are in that breed.

This is a conversation (the breeding the dog discussion) you should have had with the person you bought the dog from, before you took the puppy home. If you are like the vast majority of people looking to purchase their first dog, most will tell a breeder they are looking for a hunting dog/pet and aren't interested in breeding/show/competition. I guess they think they will save some money? Not saying this was your conversation with your breeder.. but it's one I've have with many buyers over the years. And most will tell you right up front that they plan to neuter them.

Buyers need to understand some things breeders have no control over... bites change, testicles drop or don't, all sorts of genetic stuff can pop up and be a surprise. If I had sold a puppy to someone who was a show propect/competition dog and something like this happened we would have had a plan set before the puppy ever left my property.

As a breeder I sure would want to know about this problem so the breeding can be evaluated.

I see no problem with competing or testing an altered dog. It's still good to know what the breeding produced work wise as well as health wise...... and its just a fun way to spend time with your dog.
Fuzz

[cbump]

Definitely testing for fun and to keep him active. Honestly, I have no clue about breeding and probably would have never done it. Was just a fleeting idea that looking back was not very smart.

[fuzznut]

glad you are having fun with him! Never know, the next one could be the Champ!!!! (For sure there will be a next one!!!)

I think everyone who gets their first Real Dog thinks they will make millions breeding them... then reality sets it. Sounds good on paper

[kninebirddog]

As for neutering I would wait till the dog is fully mature.
Contact the breeder so they know.

Good Luck