Dew Claws?

[reba]

On a GSP are the dew claws removed or kept intact?

Why?

Thanks

[hunterw/newhobby]

My gsp's dew claws are gone. I got her that way but i think its better to take them off on purpose when they are young then have one or more come off during hunting trip and cause a bigger problem/ ruin trip. Just my 2 cents.
Ross

[Allin13]

If its done when they are about two weeks old its a simple process but when they get older its more of a surgery. I would leave them if the dog is much older then 8 weeks. In worst case the nail will get broke off.

If it ain't broke dont fix it.

[Aslowhiteguy]

There was some research suggesting for working dogs the dew claw does add some stability to the joint. Supposedly, keeping them intact is slowly gaining support.

Apparently, the dew claw does make contact with the ground when the dog is running. Removing them may result in some instability. According to at least one study, there is a higher incidence of arthritis in agility dogs whose dew claws have been removed.

IMO, you can make a case either way.

[Bberry20]

my pups were removed when the tail was docked.

[Cajun Casey]

It's usually done to prevent later tearing and for cosmetic reasons and should be done at 2 - 5 days old, same as the tails.

[ezzy333]

If its done when they are about two weeks old its a simple process but when they get older its more of a surgery. I would leave them if the dog is much older then 8 weeks. In worst case the nail will get broke off.

If it ain't broke dont fix it.

They are done when 1 to 3 days old. The longer you wait from that point the harder on the pup and probably more expensive. At a couple of days they are easy to remove by yourself but I wouldn't want to try it after a few days.

Ezzy

[Sharon]

Differing opinions on whether they should be removed or not. Tradition says yes but some vets believe the claw stabilizes the foot when running. My dogs have always had them left on and I've never had a problem.

for discussion sake:

"In the last several years, while doing sports-medicine consultations for performance dogs across Canada and the United States, I have seen many canine athletes with carpal arthritis. Interestingly, this condition is much more common in dogs that have had their front dewclaws removed. To understand why, it is helpful to understand the structure of the carpus. This joint consists of seven bones that fit together like fieldstones that are used to build the walls of a house

The carpus joins to the radia and ulnar bones (equivalent to our lower arm), and to the metacarpal bones (equivalent to our hand). Each bone of the carpus has a convex or concave side that matches a curve on the adjacent bone. Unlike the bones of the elbow, for example.

The elbow bones have ridges that slide into interlocking grooves the bones of the carpus do not have ridges that slide into interlocking grooves on the adjacent bone. The relatively loose fit of the carpal bones is supported by ligaments that join each of the carpal bones to the adjacent bones.

With so many carpal bones that don't tightly interlock with the adjacent bones, the ligaments of this joint can be easily stretched and even torn when torque (twisting) is applied to the leg. The dewclaws have the important function of reducing the torque that is applied to the front legs, especially when dogs are turning at a canter (the main gait used in agility." quote

http://www.nzva.org.nz/policies/9d-ampu ... claws-dogs

[Tyler S]

Differing opinions on whether they should be removed or not. Tradition says yes but some vets believe the claw stabilizes the foot when running. My dogs have always had them left on and I've never had a problem.

for discussion sake:

"In the last several years, while doing sports-medicine consultations for performance dogs across Canada and the United States, I have seen many canine athletes with carpal arthritis. Interestingly, this condition is much more common in dogs that have had their front dewclaws removed. To understand why, it is helpful to understand the structure of the carpus. This joint consists of seven bones that fit together like fieldstones that are used to build the walls of a house

The carpus joins to the radia and ulnar bones (equivalent to our lower arm), and to the metacarpal bones (equivalent to our hand). Each bone of the carpus has a convex or concave side that matches a curve on the adjacent bone. Unlike the bones of the elbow, for example.

The elbow bones have ridges that slide into interlocking grooves the bones of the carpus do not have ridges that slide into interlocking grooves on the adjacent bone. The relatively loose fit of the carpal bones is supported by ligaments that join each of the carpal bones to the adjacent bones.

With so many carpal bones that don't tightly interlock with the adjacent bones, the ligaments of this joint can be easily stretched and even torn when torque (twisting) is applied to the leg. The dewclaws have the important function of reducing the torque that is applied to the front legs, especially when dogs are turning at a canter (the main gait used in agility." quote

http://www.nzva.org.nz/policies/9d-ampu ... claws-dogs

Really good post Sharon! 3 of my dogs have their dew claws the others don't. I can tell no difference in performance, but you have enlightened me on the subject.... Thanks!

[ezzy333]

I am not disputing what Sharon has posted but do stop and remeber that of course there has been more problems with dogs that have had their dew claws removed since 95% of dogs have had them removed. Also problems with that area of the leg is not common and there is the chance that they will get caught and tear which is a serious problem for an older dog. Also dew claws are also on the back feet of some dogs and they do not seem to have any connection to performance or joint injury.

After so many years of having them removed from hundreds od dogs without ever seeing an injury compared to the few that didn't have them removed and witnessing several injuries I just can not make the connection of this newer opinion. I think in the future we will find it tied closely to the opinion that tails and ears shouldn't be altered either.

JMO
Ezzy

[Tyler S]

really its been a non issue with me. ive had more problems with pads and other stuff more than ive ever had with dew claws. ive had a couple of dogs loose the nail, but no serious tears or anything debilitating. There is even an old wives tale about dew claws and snake bites in the south. i just thought Sharons post shed some light on the subject.

[Jrclmn18]

Dew claws were a big problem for me. Both lost the outer portion of the nail in the first year hunting. Fortunately it was at the end of the season and my dog only lost one day of hunting and didn't indure too much pain before surgery was a must. Surgery and, most notably, recovery was truly a pain and the potential for infection afterwards seemed higher due to the location of the inscison and the bacteria most commonly encountered on the lower leg and foot. Ended up with minor infection... Took weeks in a cone.... Bad experience for sure. I'm certain even worse for the dog. I am convinced from experience that it is better to just have them removed on time but wouldn't do it afterwards unless it was absolutely necessary.

[Tom L.]

I was not aware of the pro dew claw side until the purchase of my pointer. The owner of the kennel gave me his insights and pointed me to some research. If you look at the physiology of the dogs ankle and the purpose of the tendons that are anchored to the dew claws it makes perfect sense to keep them.
IMO the injury argument is not very strong. While playing football i saw a lot of grusome injuries to lesser appendages. This never led players or medical staff for the team to the conclusion that preventative amputation was the answer.
I think the benefits of the dew claw out weigh the risk. Sharon's explination points this out, the following article also illustrates the tendons and the support they give that area of the ankle.

http://www.caninesports.com/uploads/1/5 ... nation.pdf

Since having my eyes opened to this other perspective it is interesting how many older dogs exhibit tenderness to touch of their front ankles after being worked hard.

[Sharon]

If you do keep the dew claws on it is ESSENTIAL to cut them back short often. It is when they are neglected that injury is more likely. I would definately have rear foot claws removed at 1-3 days old.

[slistoe]

There was some research suggesting for working dogs the dew claw does add some stability to the joint.

Has there really been research? I haven't seen it. All I have seen is the personal opinion of one person whom I have read a number of articles by and based on some of those measured against my own personal experience I tend to give very little credence to her opinion.

[Tom L.]

Sharon what is the deal with rear dew claws, is it a deformity that is bred to in certain breeds, kind of like the features of brachycephalic dog breeds?

[ezzy333]

Sharon what is the deal with rear dew claws, is it a deformity that is bred to in certain breeds, kind of like the features of brachycephalic dog breeds?

Rear are just as natural as front but have been bred out of many breeds. I too have never seen any research about dew claws but I have years of experience and if you look at how the dew claw is nit connected to the leg any more than our thumbs are or any other animal. If there was a problem I have never seen it and it was never reported on except by one individual. I still think it is tied to the same group we all are familiar with that also report a dog needs a tail for balance and agility.

I have no problem with any ones opinion on this but I do know none of my dogs come in with tender legs when they are pressed and not one them have ever suffered any problems other than tearing them. That is why they have been talen off for years, experienced people saw the problem and did what they could to correct it and keep the dogs from suffering if it tears. Always amazes me how smart we think we have become instead of learning from the people who know from experiece.

Ezzy

[Sharon]

Sharon what is the deal with rear dew claws, is it a deformity that is bred to in certain breeds, kind of like the features of brachycephalic dog breeds?

From what I read rear claws are only attached by skin , unlike the front ones. Much more likely to get torn .

[Sharon]

Sharon what is the deal with rear dew claws, is it a deformity that is bred to in certain breeds, kind of like the features of brachycephalic dog breeds?

.................................................... Always amazes me how smart we think we have become instead of learning from the people who know from experiece." quote

Ezzy

I assume you are talking to me . :roll:

I'm old too Ezzy but there is always more to learn. One of the downfalls of being old is that we usually say, "This is the way we've always done it." When it comes to dogs there are MANY things that used to be done that are frowned on to day. It's important to think outside the box too.

[ezzy333]

Sharon what is the deal with rear dew claws, is it a deformity that is bred to in certain breeds, kind of like the features of brachycephalic dog breeds?

.................................................... Always amazes me how smart we think we have become instead of learning from the people who know from experiece." quote

Ezzy

I assume you are talking to me . :roll:

I'm old too Ezzy but there is always more to learn. One of the downfalls of being old is that we usually say, "This is the way we've always done it." When it comes to dogs there are MANY things that used to be done that are frowned on to day. It's important to think outside the box too.

I agree Sharon but there is an old theory that you don't need to fix something that isn't broke. And taking the dew claws off hasn't produced a problem. has reduced the possibility of another problem so why are we even thinking of changing a procedure that people found was necessary or at least helpful for the past 70 years. No need to look outside of the box when you have everything you need in the box.

Ezzy

[Sharon]

LOL... Touche'

[Aslowhiteguy]

I agree Sharon but there is an old theory that you don't need to fix something that isn't broke. And taking the dew claws off hasn't produced a problem. has reduced the possibility of another problem so why are we even thinking of changing a procedure that people found was necessary or at least helpful for the past 70 years. No need to look outside of the box when you have everything you need in the box.
Ezzy

Years ago you could have made the same argument about removing tonsils in children. Eventually, it was learned you're better off keeping them. We may just now be learning dew claws do have a function and are better left intact.

[ezzy333]

I agree Sharon but there is an old theory that you don't need to fix something that isn't broke. And taking the dew claws off hasn't produced a problem. has reduced the possibility of another problem so why are we even thinking of changing a procedure that people found was necessary or at least helpful for the past 70 years. No need to look outside of the box when you have everything you need in the box.
Ezzy

Years ago you could have made the same argument about removing tonsils in children. Eventually, it was learned you're better off keeping them. We may just now be learning dew claws do have a function and are better left intact.

In my life time tonsils were removed when a child had problems and did not remove them just for cosmetic concerns.\\

Ezzy

[slistoe]

We may just now be learning dew claws do have a function and are better left intact.

Still waiting for any real evidence to lend credence to the assertion.

[Aslowhiteguy]

We may just now be learning dew claws do have a function and are better left intact.

Still waiting for any real evidence to lend credence to the assertion.

Have you looked for it? There isn't much, but there is some.

IMO, it's just a matter of whether you are more concerned about the dew claw getting torn or your dog developing problems because it was removed.
I think you can make a case either way.

I have a setter whose dew claws were not removed. I haven't had a problem. All of my other dogs, past and present, had them removed. No problems with them either.

I kind of lean towards leaving them with what God gave them.

[slistoe]

We may just now be learning dew claws do have a function and are better left intact.

Still waiting for any real evidence to lend credence to the assertion.

Have you looked for it? There isn't much, but there is some.

This is somewhat circular isn't it. You are the one claiming such evidence exists. Show me. I am betting you won't because of the simple fact that none exists. We have been through the one opinion paper.

[gotpointers]

Other than DVM Zinks report there's not a whole lot out there written. But I think leaving them alone is gaining momentum. Judging by the responses on this current thread its already become more accepted than when I proposed it a few year's back on this same forum. I have dogs here from numerous big leauge competitors that have dew claws intact. Including a few that are at Ames right now.

Blood letting was a popular medical option for ailments not so far back. I think they took a while to figure out the treatment was worse than the ailment back then too.

[ezzy333]

Other than DVM Zinks report there's not a whole lot out there written. But I think leaving them alone is gaining momentum. Judging by the responses on this current thread its already become more accepted than when I proposed it a few year's back on this same forum. I have dogs here from numerous big leauge competitors that have dew claws intact. Including a few that are at Ames right now.

Blood letting was a popular medical option for ailments not so far back. I think they took a while to figure out the treatment was worse than the ailment back then too.

You have to be right but tell us again which of your dogs have suffered from having them removed. Stuff like pictures of the dogs stumbling, reciepts for the vet bills to get them back on their feet, maybe show us the ribbons of the trials they have won because they had their dew claws grabbing the turf when they make a sharp turn.

I am not against progress and sometimes that may include changing our mind on something but I do think there needs to be the requirement of reporting with evidence that there is a problem that needs fixing. To date, all we have is talk about fixing a problem that doesn't exist. That just doesn't make sense. Think about neutering, we found that early neutering was causing more problems than it solved and the results are we are changing. Whole different ball game with dew claws since there is no evidence that removing them causing a problem and limited evidence they can cause problems when left intact.

Ezzy

[jimbo&rooster]

Ive seen dogs with more chronic issues from leaving their tail intact than from leaving dew claws.....

Jim

[Tom L.]

I have seen several older dogs that suffered from sensitivity to their forelegs (their dew claws had been removed); I know there is no way to prove based on my observation that the dew claw removal was the culprit. Sharon also made similar observations on various dogs.
Most changes or realizations that something we have been doing for a long time is wrong begin with one person pointing it out (or writing one opinion paper) and then others approaching it with an open mind and testing it against observations.
For me the starting point was taking the time to really look at the physiology of a dogs front ankle it seems quite clear to me the purpose of the dew claw, God put it there for a reason. (I do believe that keeping them trim is essential, and some dogs have dew claws that don’t fit as tightly against the leg, which can cause problems, I think that is a breeding issue and another discussion). I’m not part of the don’t cut it off crowd, my next shorthair would have tail docked and dew claws left on.
I know dew claw injuries can be messy, but I would rather deal with that then cut down on the amount of staying power my older dogs have in the field. I hunt wild quail on public land in Florida, older dogs don’t scorch the earth like the younger ones, but boy they sure have a knack for coming up with birds, to me having sound legs will help increase productive life in the field. We cover lots of ground between finds and dogs have to hold up.
The guy I bought my pointer from has a very large pointer kennel and has been dealing with hunting dogs for a long time. His observation has been to leave the dew claws on. I don’t think he is the only one in the AA world that is leaning in that direction.
All I’m saying is it merits some serious consideration. Just because a vet college or Purina has not done a bunch of research to prove or disprove something doesn’t mean we should not consider what others are observing and pointing out.

[ezzy333]

I have seen several older dogs that suffered from sensitivity to their forelegs (their dew claws had been removed); I know there is no way to prove based on my observation that the dew claw removal was the culprit. Sharon also made similar observations on various dogs.
Most changes or realizations that something we have been doing for a long time is wrong begin with one person pointing it out (or writing one opinion paper) and then others approaching it with an open mind and testing it against observations.
For me the starting point was taking the time to really look at the physiology of a dogs front ankle it seems quite clear to me the purpose of the dew claw, God put it there for a reason. (I do believe that keeping them trim is essential, and some dogs have dew claws that don’t fit as tightly against the leg, which can cause problems, I think that is a breeding issue and another discussion). I’m not part of the don’t cut it off crowd, my next shorthair would have tail docked and dew claws left on.
I know dew claw injuries can be messy, but I would rather deal with that then cut down on the amount of staying power my older dogs have in the field. I hunt wild quail on public land in Florida, older dogs don’t scorch the earth like the younger ones, but boy they sure have a knack for coming up with birds, to me having sound legs will help increase productive life in the field. We cover lots of ground between finds and dogs have to hold up.
The guy I bought my pointer from has a very large pointer kennel and has been dealing with hunting dogs for a long time. His observation has been to leave the dew claws on. I don’t think he is the only one in the AA world that is leaning in that direction.
All I’m saying is it merits some serious consideration. Just because a vet college or Purina has not done a bunch of research to prove or disprove something doesn’t mean we should not consider what others are observing and pointing out.

I think our point is no one has pointed out any research that even indicates there is a problem with dew claws. Go back and do some anatomy studies and I think you will find out the dew claw is like our thumb but is only attached with a smaller tendon that has nothing to do with the ankle strength or flexibility. Our cows and horses also have a similiar appendage that has no present day use either.
I am not saying they should or shouldn't be taken off except for the safety of the dog as it gets older. If there is another reason you still haven't pointed us to the reports that show it is a problem. Read the new post put up by Wems and show us the work that saYS THEY SERVE ANY PURPOSE. WE WANT TO SEE IT SO WE CAN MAKE A CASE FOR OR AGAINST IT WITH OUT JUST SAYING A DOG HAD A TENDER FRONT LEG ONCE BUT YOU HAD NO IDEA AS TO WHY.

Ezzy

[Aslowhiteguy]

[
I think our point is no one has pointed out any research that even indicates there is a problem with dew claws. Go back and do some anatomy studies and I think you will find out the dew claw is like our thumb but is only attached with a smaller tendon that has nothing to do with the ankle strength or flexibility. Our cows and horses also have a similiar appendage that has no present day use either.
I am not saying they should or shouldn't be taken off except for the safety of the dog as it gets older. If there is another reason you still haven't pointed us to the reports that show it is a problem. Read the new post put up by Wems and show us the work that saYS THEY SERVE ANY PURPOSE. WE WANT TO SEE IT SO WE CAN MAKE A CASE FOR OR AGAINST IT WITH OUT JUST SAYING A DOG HAD A TENDER FRONT LEG ONCE BUT YOU HAD NO IDEA AS TO WHY.
Ezzy

Actually, there are five tendons that attach to it.

The actual function is the point of the debate. It has been demonstrated that the DC does make contact with the ground when a dog is running.

I am not advocating that everyone keeps the dew claws intact. But I am saying there might be a reason to do so. A few years ago I would not have thought so.

[slistoe]

Have any of you guys actually played with/manipulated the dew claw on a dog? I have not found one on any dog ever where the dog had any type of muscular control of the dew claw. And when we were running a grooming shop I had more than ample opportunity to do this with a great variety of different dogs. So it makes contact with the ground - big whoop-de-do - the dog has no muscle control of it so what would be the function of it?

I did see a dog eating a carrot once where the carrot was held in the front legs seemingly wedged against the dew claw and I thought hmmm... that dog is holding the carrot. Then I looked over and saw another dog lying there eating a carrot and holding it in exactly the same manner but he did not have a dew claw and there went my one and only observation of a useful function for them. (dogs don't eat vegetables, do they???)

[gotpointers]

The other thing I'm experiencing is a near 100% survival rate on pups now that I stopped with the dews. The previous pups were most likely already weak but that slight trauma likely threw them over the edge. IMO

As previously mentioned in this thread about our thumb being their dew and like I have previously said the rest of our forearm would experience muscle loss with our thumb removed. But I acknowledge we don't have the same anatomy as our canines.
Also there is supposed to be a you tube video of a dog pulling himself out after falling through the ice using his dew claws. I would lean towards that falling under them being there for a reason.
There have been a few dogs including Rapidan and Erins tin soldier that were out due to ACL injuries. And if Dr Zinks information is correct on how the tendons and muscles run I believe that could have been a contributing factor to their injuries. Studying and proving this would be extremely hard to duplicate with a control group . and having the equal exposure to trauma to the control group would be impossible.

[slistoe]

I have seen that video. I have observed many dogs over time that were very successful at getting out of ice to make retrieves - they did not have dew claws. No different than some dogs that learn how to pull themselves up over the top bar of a high fence and others can't seem to figure it out.

Anyway - ACL is a rear leg injury. You do have some information that the two dogs you referenced had rear dew claws in the first place and they were removed? Of the thousand or so pups we whelped there were a couple that had rear dews. I guess they must have all been genetically predisposed to ACL injuries then?

A study showing a statistical correlation in the general population would be at least something more than an "I think" by someone who has demonstrated in a number of articles on different topics that their thinking does not correlate in any way with my real world experience. But you are right - given the relative rarity of carpal tunnel arthritis in dogs it would be difficult to do such a statistical analysis because coming up with a statistically significant number of dogs with the condition would prove difficult.

[SCT]

I prefer taking the dew claws off for aesthetics, which really doesn't mean much. But, when running my three pointers a couple of weeks ago in WY I noticed my female had a few spots of blood on her feet. On further inspection I noticed one bleeding sore was at the exact location the dew claw was removed. My two male pups still have their dew claws and they showed no sign of problems. The snow was frozen but they could break through it and I suppose that's how she got it. She also had a couple spots on the sides of toes that were bleeding and it's possible cactus had done the damage. A week later running her again on frozen snow it started bleeding again. I highly doubt it's anything serious, but I do wonder if She'd have the problem if she had dew claws in tact. I'll never know and I will always remove them on my own litters. Just one observation.

[jimbo&rooster]

I prefer taking the dew claws off for aesthetics, which really doesn't mean much. But, when running my three pointers a couple of weeks ago in WY I noticed my female had a few spots of blood on her feet. On further inspection I noticed one bleeding sore was at the exact location the dew claw was removed. My two male pups still have their dew claws and they showed no sign of problems. The snow was frozen but they could break through it and I suppose that's how she got it. She also had a couple spots on the sides of toes that were bleeding and it's possible cactus had done the damage. A week later running her again on frozen snow it started bleeding again. I highly doubt it's anything serious, but I do wonder if She'd have the problem if she had dew claws in tact. I'll never know and I will always remove them on my own litters. Just one observation.

The only dew claw injury I have ever seen was a coyote hound running in crusted over snow. he musta stepped through the snow and hung on the dew cause it broke the dew claw. It appeared to be extremely painful for the dog and If I remember correctly not cheap for the owner.

Jim

[ezzy333]

I have seen that same problem several times and it is a major problem for adult dogs. Happened twice with crusted snow being the culprit as far as I could tell. Once also catching it in a wire with a couple lesser injuries from wire.

Ezzy

[wems2371]

I prefer taking the dew claws off for aesthetics, which really doesn't mean much. But, when running my three pointers a couple of weeks ago in WY I noticed my female had a few spots of blood on her feet. On further inspection I noticed one bleeding sore was at the exact location the dew claw was removed. My two male pups still have their dew claws and they showed no sign of problems. The snow was frozen but they could break through it and I suppose that's how she got it. She also had a couple spots on the sides of toes that were bleeding and it's possible cactus had done the damage. A week later running her again on frozen snow it started bleeding again. I highly doubt it's anything serious, but I do wonder if She'd have the problem if she had dew claws in tact. I'll never know and I will always remove them on my own litters. Just one observation.

Like you, I prefer the look, but I'm not sure if the benefit is real regarding injury. Both my shorthairs have them removed, but it was interesting that you posted this. We went hunting in mid-December with some friends. My 5.5 year old dog was down for about 1.5 hours. It was not a hard hunt, but she kept busy. The cover was everything from weeds sticks, small milo plot, brome grass, and a little bit of tall grass prairie type of vegetation. At about an hour, I noticed both of her declaw scars were bleeding. Being the color that she is, I suspect I didn't spot it right away. Blood wasn't trickling down her leg, but it was definitely welling up over the scarred area and spotting the snow occassionally. After the hunt, both scars swelled some and scabbed over, and of course she's fine now. I've never had that happen before with either dog. There was snow on the ground, and while it wasn't hard/crusty enough to support much weight, I too suspect it caused some unilateral abrasion to the scar tissue.

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

I have yet to see a dog that has any walking or balance issues that can be traced to dew claw removal. I'm not a Vet but mine told me that they aren't connected to much at 3 days old. That makes sense to me since there is a big difference between performing the procedure at that age versus doing it at adulthood. I'm all for the wellfare of these animals but I've seen more problems from people who didn't remove them and zero problems that I can even dream of relating to their removal so personally, I'll keep removing them.

[slistoe]

Crusted snow is an issue for any animals living/working outside. Currently it is one of the main issues for the survival of the deer herd in our area - the crusted snow greatly limits their mobility which decreases access to food supply and increases predation losses. Dew claws exacerbate the issues dogs have with working in crusted snow. This is from personal experience with a number of dogs with and without dews. The worst injuries I have seen from dew claws have been dogs that caught them on the wire.

[Sharon]

I have seen that same problem several times and it is a major problem for adult dogs. Happened twice with crusted snow being the culprit as far as I could tell. Once also catching it in a wire with a couple lesser injuries from wire.

Ezzy

Crusted snow is a good reason for your dog to need TPLO surgery too . The dog makes that quick turn , the leg catches and .....................

[buckeyebowman]

Interesting thread. When my buddy raised Labs, primarily for waterfowl hunting, he never removed dew claws and never had a problem with it. Now, he raises GSP's and has the dew claws removed as a matter of course. I think a lot of it depends upon the application for which you will use the dog. We hunt pheasant at our club with the GSP's. This is hardly what you would consider classic, upland hunting cover. Much of the place is just horrible, nasty thickets that, quite frankly, the Labs had a tough time with while the Shorthairs sail through them like ghosts. But, there are a lot of hazards in there, and he felt that dew claw removal was a prudent decision.

[Tom L.]

Funny how most of the dogs at Ames running the last two weeks have their dew claws intact. I think a lot of people
are missing the boat as to the purpose of the front dew claws.

[ezzy333]

Funny how most of the dogs at Ames running the last two weeks have their dew claws intact. I think a lot of people
are missing the boat as to the purpose of the front dew claws.

Yep, I looked at everyone of them and can see it now, "National Champion Quality pups for sale ---all have dew claws" You too can have a dog with extra traction.

Ezzy

[slistoe]

Funny how most of the dogs at Ames running the last two weeks have their dew claws intact. I think a lot of people
are missing the boat as to the purpose of the front dew claws.

No wonder I couldn't win against those AA Pointers.

[Tom L.]

Not only would it give you a competitive edge, but it would be a cost saver (or time saver if you do the removals yourself).
In all seriousness, I don't think these guys and gals are leaving them on as a cost savings. I don't think it gives much of a competitive edge on the front end of a dogs career but at the back end it would.
I think the exception to this would be dogs that are hunted or trialed a lot. I think by lacking front leg dew claws the dog then lacks the torsion support the ligaments provide that are anchored to the dew claw, this in turn will cause the dog to compensate with other parts of the body, leading to other injuries.
The majority of dew claw injuries are superficial, messy, but manly superficial (I know there are exceptions, but I'm talking as a rule).
However, when a dog say over stresses his back end because of weakness in certain points of his front legs, the resulting injuries could be season or career ending. Even if the dog recovers it would never be the same.

[cjuve]

Leaving the dew claws on is a very common practice for pointer breeders in the South. My own personal experience is that I have never had an issue in my country with tearing a dew claw to the point where it needed to be removed, they do get bloody every once in awhile. I do however have 1 pointer that has arthritis in his front legs and shoulders, it is the only pointer that has had his dew claws removed.