NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:00 pm

Gary Lester set the bar with Miller's Dailing In this morning. 7 finds, 1up finishing the 3 hours. We will know how high when the handlers get to 90 minutes, if most pick up, it will be telling. They will not waste the judge's time, or run the risk of injury if they are not beating what they already have.

If it holds up Gary will be the first amateur to repeat in the modern era.

Neil

dead mike · Post by **dead mike** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:37 pm

wow! hows the weather looking?

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:17 pm

dead mike wrote:wow! hows the weather looking?

The Ames site gives the weather each day, predictions from the Weather Channel dot com says lower 40's am mid 50's pm, but it is West TN, it is sure to change, and is usually a factor.

dead mike · Post by **dead mike** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:39 pm

weather for sure a factor and bird numbers. They released an additional 500 quail, i wonder how many will be around for the later braces? Kind of feel bad for the guys running at near the end.

tn red · Post by **tn red** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:31 pm

Plenty of birds pointed every year towards the end Happy Jack had 6 or 7 a week in last year.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:05 pm

wish i was there tomorrow Happy Jack and sno in the same brace.....

PntrRookie · Post by **PntrRookie** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:09 am

birddog1968 wrote:wish i was there tomorrow Happy Jack and sno in the same brace.....

+1!

Redneck · Post by **Redneck** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:46 am

birddog1968 wrote:wish i was there tomorrow Happy Jack and sno in the same brace.....

will be interesting to see how Happy Jack reacts......and also how Lester reacts if he finds himself in position of protecting his current status with Dialing In....if Anderson can handle the situations that could possibly arise......yes this is the brace I'm most interested in as well - so much contrast between both handlers and dogs

Saddle · Post by **Saddle** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:15 am

I've watched jack go and he goes no matter who is in the saddle. Should be a great bra e though.

PntrRookie · Post by **PntrRookie** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:40 am

Redneck wrote:...how Lester reacts if he finds himself in position of protecting his current status with Dialing In...

That whole scenario is interesting because of so many variables.

A. Mr. Lester is an Amateur, thus does not have any client to answer to (other than the Company

).
B. How confident is he that Dialing In's performance will stand.
C. If he has another dog putting down a good performance, I highly doubt he would protect anything...let the dog roll and let the judges figure it out. I bet he would LOVE to have multiple dogs finish with great performances.
D. Like ANY other handler, they know if the dog is getting the job done and will pick up with respect to judges and other handlers.

Cool to be a sideline/gallery quarterback! IMO...he will not protect anything.

Redneck · Post by **Redneck** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:05 am

Saddle wrote:I've watched jack go and he goes no matter who is in the saddle. Should be a great bra e though.

I've seen and competed against both these dogs many times......I've judged both handlers and competed against one many times.......If it were just about turning a couple of great dogs loose and seein' what happens that would be interesting enough, but throw in the extenuating circumstances involved with this brace, and it becomes intriguing to me. I have no doubt that Happy Jack will "go", that's his strong suit in my opinion, but this aint Ok or Ks. The last thing Lester wants in this situation is a horse race, and he'll do what he can to avoid that. These are 2 very different types of dogs, and i would enjoy watching these handlers try to command the situation to their dogs advantage - of course the dogs could "take over" and make the handlers irrelevant .

Redneck · Post by **Redneck** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:23 am

PntrRookie wrote:
Redneck wrote:...how Lester reacts if he finds himself in position of protecting his current status with Dialing In...
That whole scenario is interesting because of so many variables.

A. Mr. Lester is an Amateur, thus does not have any client to answer to (other than the Company ).
B. How confident is he that Dialing In's performance will stand.
C. If he has another dog putting down a good performance, I highly doubt he would protect anything...let the dog roll and let the judges figure it out. I bet he would LOVE to have multiple dogs finish with great performances.
D. Like ANY other handler, they know if the dog is getting the job done and will pick up with respect to judges and other handlers.

Cool to be a sideline/gallery quarterback! IMO...he will not protect anything.

A. only in the strictest sense
B. dont know how confident Gary is, but it was interesting that Ike left his dog down with half the finds, either he thought it was beatable or he had something to prove
C. Obviously you dont protect by picking up your own dog having a good performance :roll: but if his bracemate is having a good performance he could protect what he's already done
D. there are always points to prove and hidden agendas

It is fun and thanks to Vera, the Ames website, and friends with phones who are lucky enough to attend, we are able to follow.

PntrRookie · Post by **PntrRookie** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:32 am

Redneck wrote: A. only in the strictest sense
B. dont know how confident Gary is, but it was interesting that Ike left his dog down with half the finds, either he thought it was beatable or he had something to prove
C. Obviously you dont protect by picking up your own dog having a good performance but if his bracemate is having a good performance he could protect what he's already done
D. there are always points to prove and hidden agendas

It is fun and thanks to Vera, the Ames website, and friends with phones who are lucky enough to attend, we are able to follow.

Good points Red...on B - I thought the same on yesterday's afternoon brace. May also had something to do with Jax getting picked up half way through...I believe Keith handled Ring of Fire, Ike scouted

FWIW understand answer to C, just threw it out there.

Saddle · Post by **Saddle** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:43 am

I would call jack a pretty good birddog as well. Not just all run. heck you've run against him. He's a hard dog to run down if you're chasing him in his own tracks. I think randy will dial him down enough to make a good showing. This is one of the reasons they're not running Sam (Three Ten to Yuma). He's getting hard to finish.

Saddle · Post by **Saddle** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:46 am

1 of the exciting things about Randy's string is his derbies might be just as good if not better than the dogs hes running now.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:22 pm

I like tracking the scouts.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:12 pm

Two more bite the dust.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:23 pm

Looks like the unwritten 2 UP rule took out two great dogs this morning, that coupled with a low bird score.

Never really understood why it is the same UP rule for three hours as for one.

It comes from not wanting a false pointing, lying dog, but I believe it is time to rethink it since prerelease birds (and even wild ones) tend to run more these days.

On to this afternoon.

x Bred Pointer · Post by **x Bred Pointer** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:57 pm

There is no "UP rule" it's just that these handlers know if they are getting it done or not and the last hour would have to be pretty spectacular with two UPs in the book. And a UP is a UP whether the birds ran, flew or took a crap there an hour earlier.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:45 pm

It is unwritten, but it is very much a rule.

I have never heard of a dog winning a major stake with 3 UPs.

And I am not saying it shouldn't be, just seems interesting it is the same no matter the length of heat. As a hunter, after a haul my fat butt in front of a dog, I won't accept 2 in a day, he best find them on relocation or he is going to be someone's pet..

Post by **slistoe** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:50 pm

It is written in the AFTCA Guidelines to Judicial Practice in such a way that pretty much precludes the use of a dog for placements with a 3rd UP.

Saddle · Post by **Saddle** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:19 pm

I've heard it said by some folks that I trust that will be really hard for a Miller prefix dog to win the National.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:27 pm

Saddle wrote:I've heard it said by some folks that I trust that will be really hard for a Miller prefix dog to win the National.

They put one in the HOF this year. Out of "that" breeding, no less

dead mike · Post by **dead mike** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:26 pm

Saddle wrote:I've heard it said by some folks that I trust that will be really hard for a Miller prefix dog to win the National.

why?

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:35 pm

Erin dog up, bracemate finished.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:32 pm

I do not ever reading in the brief write up following the running about "-a questionable piece of birdwork". Look for that to be edited.

But nothing changed.

Redneck · Post by **Redneck** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:41 pm

Saddle wrote:I would call jack a pretty good birddog as well. Not just all run. heck you've run against him. He's a hard dog to run down if you're chasing him in his own tracks. I think randy will dial him down enough to make a good showing. This is one of the reasons they're not running Sam (Three Ten to Yuma). He's getting hard to finish.

Jack is a strong dog that always gives you a good run, with his race you don't need a bunch of birds. I was a little surprised last year that with the number of finds he had that he didn't win. As for Sam, the handler change didn't seem to work out well - they never seemed to gel

Redneck · Post by **Redneck** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:03 pm

[quote="Neil"]It is unwritten, but it is very much a rule.

I have never heard of a dog winning a major stake with 3 UPs.

And I am not saying it shouldn't be, just seems interesting it is the same no matter the length of heat. As a hunter, after a haul my fat butt in front of a dog, I won't accept 2 in a day, he best find them on relocation or he is going to be someone's pet..[/quot

I saw Erins Heyu Suzie win a SD CH with 3 up's........upset a lot of people

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:39 am

I now understand the "questionable birdwork" was just a handler calling flight of birds and firing, but not observed by judiciary. Happens often, not a big deal, will go in the book as a nonnevent.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:59 am

Went back and looked at the photos of Dailin In, after hearing he let down at 2 hour mark, usually when they do slow the tail goes down and they sag in the middle. He looked high and tight to me. He is looking better and better.

But I am surprised more often than not when we gather at the steps, even when I rode more.

PntrRookie · Post by **PntrRookie** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:48 am

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/20 ... -national/

Saddle · Post by **Saddle** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:19 am

dead mike wrote:
Saddle wrote:I've heard it said by some folks that I trust that will be really hard for a Miller prefix dog to win the National.
why?

Miller wasn't a very popular guy upon his exit from trialing. Bernie doesn't have a strong conviction for Miller or his dogs. I'm sure it burned him up that southern pride was elected into the hof this past year.

PntrRookie · Post by **PntrRookie** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:59 am

Saddle wrote:
dead mike wrote:
Saddle wrote:I've heard it said by some folks that I trust that will be really hard for a Miller prefix dog to win the National.
why?
Miller wasn't a very popular guy upon his exit from trialing. Bernie doesn't have a strong conviction for Miller or his dogs. I'm sure it burned him up that southern pride was elected into the hof this past year.

All that may be true but I would dearly hope that in any trial we judge the DOG and not the handler/owner or name. AND the judges have the professionalism to do what is right...if the name is Banana Joe or Miller's Banana Joe.

Saddle · Post by **Saddle** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:04 am

That all sounds nice in theory Greg but if that's the case then why did they ban Millers dogs and not just him. How long do you think it'll take before white powder gets into the Hall of Fame. Does anyone on this board really think that game maker and southern pride contributed more to the pointer breed and to the sport then white powder did. No 1 here or anywhere else can even make that argument because it would be nonsense.

PntrRookie · Post by **PntrRookie** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:14 am

Saddle wrote:That all sounds nice in theory Greg but if that's the case then why did they ban Millers dogs and not just him. How long do you think it'll take before white powder gets into the Hall of Fame. Does anyone on this board really think that game maker and southern pride contributed more to the pointer breed and to the sport then white powder did. No 1 here or anywhere else can even make that argument because it would be nonsense.

Agreed...do you think it puts a spur in Bernie's saddle when he is reporting at the National and up rides Ferrel? Would love to be inside his head when that happens.

Saddle · Post by **Saddle** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:38 am

Oh boy I bet that would be a funny sight.

Most judges I think are honest but you get what I'm saying. The prejudice from the top levels is very real. Towards Miller dogs

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:50 am

PntrRookie wrote:
Saddle wrote:That all sounds nice in theory Greg but if that's the case then why did they ban Millers dogs and not just him. How long do you think it'll take before white powder gets into the Hall of Fame. Does anyone on this board really think that game maker and southern pride contributed more to the pointer breed and to the sport then white powder did. No 1 here or anywhere else can even make that argument because it would be nonsense.
Agreed...do you think it puts a spur in Bernie's saddle when he is reporting at the National and up rides Ferrel? Would love to be inside his head when that happens.

From the photos, I'd say he'd be hard pressed to see anything around that riding helmet. It's been nine years. It's over. Tempest in a teacup.

tn red · Post by **tn red** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:04 pm

Lot more to some stories but most are about money.Pic from yesterdays running.

rinker · Post by **rinker** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:19 pm

I have no doubt that Bernie doesn't care for Mr. Miller, and White Powder is not getting in to the hall of fame any time soon. I don't believe, however, that there is any judicail bias against Miller dogs. If you rule out all of the pointers with any Miller breeding, then one of the three setter owners and handlers are going to be very happy.

millerms06 · Post by **millerms06** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:36 pm

PntrRookie wrote: All that may be true but I would dearly hope that in any trial we judge the DOG and not the handler/owner or name. AND the judges have the professionalism to do what is right...if the name is Banana Joe or Miller's Banana Joe.

Yes it would be nice if personal issues and prejudice were left out the door. I have seen it not be the case in other competing formats however. It all comes down to the individual judging and whether or not the governing body overseeing activity condones such behavior.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:17 pm

Bernie controls American Field and the Hall of Fame. He does not control the National Campionship, and "bleep" sure does not control the judges, nor would he even try.

If he held the bias some are suggesting, he could just refuse to register ant Miller prefixes, as he also controls FDSB.

I know the judges and Bernie, they are honest gentlemen, all. To suggest otherwise is classless.

Saddle · Post by **Saddle** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:39 pm

Deleted............adds nothing to the conversation.

dead mike · Post by **dead mike** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:58 pm

Saddle wrote:
dead mike wrote:
Saddle wrote:I've heard it said by some folks that I trust that will be really hard for a Miller prefix dog to win the National.
why?
Miller wasn't a very popular guy upon his exit from trialing. Bernie doesn't have a strong conviction for Miller or his dogs. I'm sure it burned him up that southern pride was elected into the hof this past year.

that me be so but it will have no effect on the judges outcome of this trial

dead mike · Post by **dead mike** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:28 pm

SETTER GUYS, CHECK IT!
"Overnight drizzle added to the already wet terrain. Damp and 38 degrees at the start. Shadow Oak Bo tallied seven finds and also had three backs. Rivertons Funseek'n Scooter notched five and also had an unproductive. Both dogs finished the three hours."

Gertie · Post by **Gertie** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:33 pm

dead mike wrote:SETTER GUYS, CHECK IT!
"Overnight drizzle added to the already wet terrain. Damp and 38 degrees at the start. Shadow Oak Bo tallied seven finds and also had three backs. Rivertons Funseek'n Scooter notched five and also had an unproductive. Both dogs finished the three hours."

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:43 pm

We have a field trial!

I first saw Bo as a pup, and was around his grandsire often. He is a great dog.

The three backs could be cause for concern, sounds like he may have been behind the other dog some. The judges will know.

There is another way a dog can get that many backs.

Grange · Post by **Grange** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:51 pm

I like rooting for the long hairs. I've always heard that a back won't win a trial, but what about three? So far a setter is the only dog to have a clean run. Long way to go, but I imagine the handler has a smile on his/her face.

Grange · Post by **Grange** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:53 pm

Neil wrote:We have a field trial!

I first saw Bo as a pup, and was around his grandsire often. He is a great dog.

The three backs could be cause for concern, sounds like he may have been behind the other dog some. The judges will know.

There is another way a dog can get that many backs.

Well considering he had 7 finds vs 5 finds I would hope he was behind because he was working a covey.

Allin13 · Post by **Allin13** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:55 pm

If a setter wins they get an extra $10,000?

jimssetters · Post by **jimssetters** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:07 pm

After 43 years the money is not an issue but will be nice. Do you think the stud fee will go up? I would have liked to see Jetsetter offspring win but now its GO BO GO.