Can a flusher break a pointer?

[Double Shot Banks]

Hello,
Just a question in general, my father has told me that if you have a flusher and a pointer working together, if the pointer gets a point, he always called his lab in so it wont find the bird and break the point. I see how this could happen, do any of you pointer owners that ever hunt with other buddies with flushers think it could break the pointer or make it not want to point? I will be going on a trip this fall with my grandfather and his friends, i will have Banks my lab, and i was going to talk to the other dog owners, but i was planning on calling banks over if the other dog got a point..
If both dogs get on the bird at the same time and i call my dog to me would it be bad for him?
Thanks,
Isaac and banks

[Doc E]

Hello,
Just a question in general, my father has told me that if you have a flusher and a pointer working together, if the pointer gets a point, he always called his lab in so it wont find the bird and break the point. I see how this could happen, do any of you pointer owners that ever hunt with other buddies with flushers think it could break the pointer or make it not want to point? I will be going on a trip this fall with my grandfather and his friends, i will have Banks my lab, and i was going to talk to the other dog owners, but i was planning on calling banks over if the other dog got a point..
If both dogs get on the bird at the same time and i call my dog to me would it be bad for him?
Thanks,
Isaac and banks

You don't have to call your dog to you. Just blow the SIT whistle.
Typically, after time and exposure, the Lab will automatically honor the dog's point.
But the Lab MUST obey the SIT whistle.



.

[PntrRookie]

...do any of you pointer owners that ever hunt with other buddies with flushers think it could break the pointer or make it not want to point?

Yes, especially young dogs, or older dogs (4-6 yrs old) that are not stone cold broke. I do not run my pointers with flushers. I will go to a different field or rotate dogs.

[Duckdon]

Dang it Doc, your right again. Thats how I handle my flushing lab and my DD. Then I flush the bird or at least that's how it is suppose to work. Don

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

I thought the OP wanted to bring Banks in to flush not honor?

[Trekmoor]

Like Doc I don't allow my flushing dogs (spaniels) to move in on a point. I too blow the stop whistle. I was told many years ago that if a pointing dog had it's points stolen by another dog too often ,it could become jealous and begin to break point or perhaps move straight into flush.

Bill T.

[Neil]

Good manners are important afield in people and dogs.

Dogs must honor.

[mask]

Good manners are important afield in people and dogs.

Dogs must honor.

Yep and it's usually easier to train the dogs than the people. :roll:

[Saddle]

Over 10 years ago when I guided hunts we used a lab with our pointers. We taught him to back by sitting. He would do it on his own just like a pointing dog. When we got to the dogs we would command him to flush the birds. The pointers were broke and stood broke every time. They got used to him being part of the mix. They didn't resent him at all. He was just part of the hunt. Our dogs were broke right. It was much safer for me to send that lab in to flush then me risk getting shot. That's the only reason I used the lab. I run our broke dogs with puppies and unbroke derbies all the time. Its a good test for them and they encounter a fair number of dogs in trials that aren't mannerly as well. It prepares them for that and teaches them what I expect. No matter what their bracemate is doing they better maintain discipline.

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

Saddle, I've done the same but think about this particular scenario. Young flusher with young handler who doesn't really know the level of the other dogs or handlers. That could spell disaster.

[Neil]

Saddle, I've done the same but think about this particular scenario. Young flusher with young handler who doesn't really know the level of the other dogs or handlers. That could spell disaster.

True, but they will learn. Then, if like me, they will learn just because you can do something is not enough of a reason to do it.

I will still hunt flushers and retrievers together on released, relunctant to fly pen birds from time to time, but on wild birds it is just easier to rotate them.

[birddogger]

He was just part of the hunt. Our dogs were broke right. It was much safer for me to send that lab in to flush then me risk getting shot. That's the only reason I used the lab.

If I thought I was at risk of getting shot while flushing a bird, I wouldn't use a lab. I would either give up hunting or find some safer hunting buddies.

Charlie

[campgsp]

He was just part of the hunt. Our dogs were broke right. It was much safer for me to send that lab in to flush then me risk getting shot. That's the only reason I used the lab.

If I thought I was at risk of getting shot while flushing a bird, I wouldn't use a lab. I would either give up hunting or find some safer hunting buddies.

Charlie

Saddle was "guiding" for people.
Heck I wouldn't flush birds for people I'm guiding either. You barely know these people.
Just common sense.

[birddogger]

He was just part of the hunt. Our dogs were broke right. It was much safer for me to send that lab in to flush then me risk getting shot. That's the only reason I used the lab.

If I thought I was at risk of getting shot while flushing a bird, I wouldn't use a lab. I would either give up hunting or find some safer hunting buddies.

Charlie

Saddle was "guiding" for people.
Heck I wouldn't flush birds for people I'm guiding either. You barely know these people.
Just common sense.

I do some guiding too and the clients flush the birds. But I stand by what I said...Just substitute the word "guiding" for the word "hunting" and the word "clients" for the word "buddies".
Just common sense.

Charlie

[buckeyebowman]

Like Doc I don't allow my flushing dogs (spaniels) to move in on a point. I too blow the stop whistle. I was told many years ago that if a pointing dog had it's points stolen by another dog too often ,it could become jealous and begin to break point or perhaps move straight into flush.

Bill T.

You got that right! I read something, It may have been on another page here, where a gang of people with a bunch of dogs went out hunting together. One guy had a dog that would creep on every point. By the end of the day everybody's dogs were creeping on point! These dogs aren't stupid, and they know what is happening to them. They are also jealous of retrieves. My buddy has a GSP that is a phenomenal hunter! He also has an older Yellow Lab that was a dual purpose waterfowl/upland game dog. When the GSP was starting to get really good, the old Lab would whine so pitifully at being left home that my buddy, being soft hearted, would bring him along. Well, the old Lab would waddle along with him while the GSP did all the hunting. Then, when a bird went up, the Lab would haul his freight in order to get the retrieve. It didn't take but 2 or 3 times of this happening when the GSP got the message. "I'm doing all the work, and this guy is getting the bonus!" So, is the GSP now steady to wing and shot? NOT ON YOUR LIFE!!!

[Grange]

I hunt my lab and my english setter together all the time. They hunt at different ranges so it is rarely a problem. When my setter goes on point I heel my dog and walk toward the point. When I am near I tell the lab to sit and then work the bird. If the two happen to be in the same area when the setter goes on point I will tell my lab to sit or she will back/honor the setter on her own.

[Neil]

I hunt my lab and my english setter together all the time. They hunt at different ranges so it is rarely a problem. When my setter goes on point I heel my dog and walk toward the point. When I am near I tell the lab to sit and then work the bird. If the two happen to be in the same area when the setter goes on point I will tell my lab to sit or she will back/honor the setter on her own.

And the pointing dog must learn to honor the pre-flush activity of the flusher. It is easy to get stop to flush/flight, but getting the pointer to stop and watch the flusher wiggle through think cover is hard. Most times they will just go around and ignore the situation. Leaving the pointer to come back after the shot and needing to be handled into a back.

I have found it a lot more fun on paper than in the field. It is just easier to rotate the dogs to suite the cover.

[Grange]

And the pointing dog must learn to honor the pre-flush activity of the flusher. It is easy to get stop to flush/flight, but getting the pointer to stop and watch the flusher wiggle through think cover is hard. Most times they will just go around and ignore the situation. Leaving the pointer to come back after the shot and needing to be handled into a back.

I have found it a lot more fun on paper than in the field. It is just easier to rotate the dogs to suite the cover.

That scenario happens so rarely I didn't even mention it. If my lab is working a bird and my setter is near I can whoa my setter. Normally if I yell whoa my lab will also sit, but if she's on a bird saying whoa once is probably not going to stop her.

For me hunting the two together is by far my preferred way of hunting. With the difference in their ranges it is really a lot of fun hunting with both on the ground.