THE MEN BEHIND THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

Redneck
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Re: THE MEN BEHIND THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by Redneck » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:44 pm

I think this thread should have divided into owners and handlers. I don't think many of the professional handlers are getting "rich". However, as of Aug. 2012, the avg. household income in the US was $50,000, and if it costs in the neighborhood of $20,000 to campaign a dog on the AA circuit, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the avg. guy can't afford it. If a guy campaigned 1 dog, and did it himself, and got lucky enough to qualify in just a few tries, an avg. guy could do it but it would still require sacrifice - especially if he was a family man. Everybody has a different definition of "rich" but it's quite obvious that the owners are all living above avg.

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Re: THE MEN BEHIND THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by Neil » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:00 pm

Actually I was talking about the owner that handled his own dogs to win the NC.

So if you go back you will see a list of owner/ handlers to do so, only two, Tom Honeker & Keith Wright, were rich. The rest found ways to get it done.

And the point remains it is not money holding us back.

If a school teacher, a state employee, and small farmers can do it, so could any of us.

Just the fact any amatrue can win it should be noteable, but to do it without wealth makes ours a unique sport.

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Re: THE MEN BEHIND THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by Allin13 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:12 pm

+1 Neil

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ezzy333
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Re: THE MEN BEHIND THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:12 pm

whatsnext wrote:I have yet to see any farmers lights on at 3 am when i am on my way to work ,i will see them out late during harvest but never early and that includes Saturdays and Sundays, and all the farmers i know have another full time job or business.So how do these farmers have time to farm and work another full time job? some people may buy into anyone's bs but i prefer to use logic and what i see with my own eyes.I am not saying farmers do not work for there money or that they are rich but most are far from poor and have a good life, i have a friend who went over his cost's with me one night and while the costs are high what he makes divided into the hours he works is a good wage and he has another full time job too plus he gets more days off a year than i do (but i am an overtime "beep").
I am assuming you know that most crops can not be harvested when wet. That means damp such as dew or even higher humidity at night. But I take it from your post you think they should be running the equioment 24/7 if they are really busy. When do you think they should train the dogs?

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whatsnext
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Re: THE MEN BEHIND THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by whatsnext » Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:27 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
whatsnext wrote:I have yet to see any farmers lights on at 3 am when i am on my way to work ,i will see them out late during harvest but never early and that includes Saturdays and Sundays, and all the farmers i know have another full time job or business.So how do these farmers have time to farm and work another full time job? some people may buy into anyone's bs but i prefer to use logic and what i see with my own eyes.I am not saying farmers do not work for there money or that they are rich but most are far from poor and have a good life, i have a friend who went over his cost's with me one night and while the costs are high what he makes divided into the hours he works is a good wage and he has another full time job too plus he gets more days off a year than i do (but i am an overtime "beep").
I am assuming you know that most crops can not be harvested when wet. That means damp such as dew or even higher humidity at night. But I take it from your post you think they should be running the equioment 24/7 if they are really busy. When do you think they should train the dogs?
You should read and understand everyones post and then you might know what and who's post i was commenting on, and they can train there dogs whenever they want.

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Re: THE MEN BEHIND THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by ACooper » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:02 pm

Allin13 wrote: no farmer is hurting!!
No farmer?
Allin13 wrote:but how much does that dog make a year? stud fees and winnings?
How many trial dogs do you think cover what it costs to keep them on "the circuit"?

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THE MEN BEHIND THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by Luminary Setters » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:38 pm

If I had to take a stab at dogs that might if covered their trial and training expenses..., I'd have to pick Lean Mac and Five Star General Patton.

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Re: THE MEN BEHIND THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by Redneck » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:49 pm

Neil wrote:Actually I was talking about the owner that handled his own dogs to win the NC

And the point remains it is not money holding us back.

If a school teacher, a state employee, and small farmers can do it, so could any of us
I have no knowledge of who the school teacher is, but both your farmer and state employee campaigned multiple dogs at the same time on both the amateur and open circuits - this takes $, more $ than the avg guy could spend. Both of these men also made more $ per year selling dogs than the avg US household income. I agree that a person of average income could win, but the law of averages is against them. It takes more than $ to win ie drive and determination, but it also takes money. Trucks, trailers, leases, fuel, birds, horses,tack, feed, motels, etc ain't cheap. I think this is also part of the reason more young people aren't involved in our sport.

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Re: THE MEN BEHIND THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:04 pm

ACooper wrote:
Allin13 wrote: no farmer is hurting!!
No farmer?
Allin13 wrote:but how much does that dog make a year? stud fees and winnings?
How many trial dogs do you think cover what it costs to keep them on "the circuit"?
very few if any. although a National Champ can cover a lot with stud fees.

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Re: THE MEN BEHIND THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by slistoe » Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:09 am

Luminary Setters wrote:If I had to take a stab at dogs that might if covered their trial and training expenses..., I'd have to pick Lean Mac and Five Star General Patton.
Yeah, those ones. I owned lots of the Lean Mac blood.

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Re: THE MEN BEHIND THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by campgsp » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:37 am

Has anyone stopped to think that these guys can afford all of this because that is all they do is trial. No vacations no family time, no other hobbies, etc. Every second of their life is to trial and invest in trialing.
Any average Joe a teacher a plumber, a farmer, etc can afford to do this but give up everything to do it.

Its a life in its own. When you go down that road there's no coming back. Its an addiction.

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Re: THE MEN BEHIND THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by millerms06 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:54 am

Neil wrote:Actually I was talking about the owner that handled his own dogs to win the NC.

So if you go back you will see a list of owner/ handlers to do so, only two, Tom Honeker & Keith Wright, were rich. The rest found ways to get it done.

And the point remains it is not money holding us back.

If a school teacher, a state employee, and small farmers can do it, so could any of us.

Just the fact any amatrue can win it should be noteable, but to do it without wealth makes ours a unique sport.
The idea of an amateur winning is dually noted, however I have reservations with the people presently employed as state employees, which includes teachers, are better off financially than their past day counterparts.
campgsp wrote:Has anyone stopped to think that these guys can afford all of this because that is all they do is trial. No vacations no family time, no other hobbies, etc. Every second of their life is to trial and invest in trialing.
Any average Joe a teacher a plumber, a farmer, etc can afford to do this but give up everything to do it.

Its a life in its own. When you go down that road there's no coming back. Its an addiction.
Perhaps someday, one of them will write a book about how they managed to do all of what they do on the funds they had. Honestly I smell a best seller because if that said book informs the reader on ways to be frugal with money the printing presses will not keep up with the demand.

Some of my dad's influences in the beagling world were modest men and didn't have much other than good families, field champions in the kennel and respect from other men. Watching how much time and money my dad had spent on our forty acre land and how many trials he went to in Canada, the midwest and the east coast, showed me that even running on hares costs money. I can attest through living in a hare trialing family, it was a past time that wasn't as expensive as bird dogs, let alone the figures some of you guys are quoting. There are many reasons for this and it all comes down to the rise of the dollar. Times now are considerably different with how much things we need to invest in. Heck even how much we sell our dogs, and buy them, are different now then in the past.

Perhaps, in a metaphorical sense, the day you see a man running instead of using a horse will be the proof an amateur made it.

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