Approving new members by hand

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admin
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Approving new members by hand

Post by admin » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:03 pm

To decrease the amount of spam our wonderful moderators have to deal with, I am personally approving new members by hand. It MAY take a little longer, but it seems to have put a 90% decrease in the number of Chinese hackers and link droppers.

I am blown away by the growth on this board! So many new folks in the past 3-6 months!

BTW Why would someone sign up for a gun dog forum account with a toy breed and put NO for hunting? Should I even activate those accounts? -- ROB

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Sharon
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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by Sharon » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:11 pm

Good idea.

No obvious non gun dog people. Our Ontario forum has almost lost all experienced gun dog folks due to MANY posts/threads about non gun dogs. Almost EVERYONE has an opinion on " Minney the Yorkie" , so the number of posts has increased , but the quality of info on GUN DOG training etc. is in trouble..

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by admin » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:19 pm

Maybe I need to add a box where folks write a VERY shorty sentence or two about why they want to be on the forum...

I think I insulted our newest member, and I'm sorry, Bender! You don't know how many spammers with "Chiwawas" I get in my in box.

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by fourseasons » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:22 pm

When folks sign up, perhaps a question that requires a narrative response:

"What is your interest in joining this forum for and about gun dogs?"

If for no other reason, it would be entertaining reading <G>

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Approving new members by hand

Post by ACooper » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:22 pm

admin wrote:
BTW Why would someone sign up for a gun dog forum account with a toy breed and put NO for hunting? Should I even activate those accounts? -- ROB
NO

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by fourseasons » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:38 pm

A narrative paragraph might help determine if someone's joining to learn about gun dogs, hunting, training bird dogs, etc. A person could put "no" regarding hunting, but want to hunt or buy a bird dog in the future and be looking for advice.

The other side of that coin is that anyone can lurk on this forum without becoming a member - one only needs to sign up in order to post... so unless someone has an interest in asking a question or posting a comment (relating to gun dogs/hunting/training, etc.) that hasn't been asked/answered before, what would be his/her point in joining?

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by admin » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:44 pm

See attachment.
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Double Shot Banks
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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by Double Shot Banks » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:48 pm

I think the only people who need in the forum are people who need help training or people who can help others train

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by Fester » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:54 pm

I ran a Harley Davidson forum for 10 years so I know some of the frustrations you are facing as admin, but the reality of it is if they don't have any interest in gun dogs or anything to offer then what role are they gonna play here? it's hard enough to sift thru the tender feelings and hard headed approach the rest of us have without having to deal with the poodle crowd or a ripoff spamer, I appreciate what the admin does on this site so I feel like you will make the best decision for us all
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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by admin » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:00 pm

It might get to the point where we ask for a reference from another member or someone we know in the gun dog community. Not to be TOO exclusive, but I'm seeing a lot of "advertisers" sign up. Maybe free ads need to be for active, posting members only?

Thanks, Fester. It's harder than it looked on the outside. People are funny, admins included! I read something about the miscommunication of tone in email happening 40-50% of the time. The MODS should get all the credit. They do a great job of keeping the peace. I just pop in every once in awhile.

My favorite so far are the folks who have a beef with a moderator going "over my head" to our exclusive sponsor...

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by Double Shot Banks » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:04 pm

It would be nice if the admin had more free time to share his advice just like any other member :)
maybe if we had more moderators, a man needs some fun, doesnt he?
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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by admin » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:16 pm

Oh, you don't want MY input on dog training. My dogs are the worst behaved in the kennel! That's the OTHER Snell brother. Now if we're talking Internet marketing or anything digital? I'm all in.

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by Double Shot Banks » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:19 pm

admin wrote:Oh, you don't want MY input on dog training. My dogs are the worst behaved in the kennel! That's the OTHER Snell brother. Now if we're talking Internet marketing or anything digital? I'm all in.
So you brother is the owner of GDS?
What do you mean marketing or anything digital?

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by Cajun Casey » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:34 pm

Double Shot Banks wrote:
admin wrote:Oh, you don't want MY input on dog training. My dogs are the worst behaved in the kennel! That's the OTHER Snell brother. Now if we're talking Internet marketing or anything digital? I'm all in.
So you brother is the owner of GDS?
What do you mean marketing or anything digital?
Show them the book, Rob.

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by admin » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:45 pm

Steve and I both own GDS, but why does he get to do all the fun stuff? His "job" includes a lot of "research and development," and it's always during hunting season for some reason. I get stuck with optimizing warehouse procedures, teaching folks how to sell online, and writing DUMMIES books... It's not so bad! -- r

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by deseeker » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:24 pm

admin wrote:It might get to the point where we ask for a reference from another member or someone we know in the gun dog community. Not to be TOO exclusive, but I'm seeing a lot of "advertisers" sign up. Maybe free ads need to be for active, posting members only?

Thanks, Fester. It's harder than it looked on the outside. People are funny, admins included! I read something about the miscommunication of tone in email happening 40-50% of the time. The MODS should get all the credit. They do a great job of keeping the peace. I just pop in every once in awhile.

My favorite so far are the folks who have a beef with a moderator going "over my head" to our exclusive sponsor...
I don't know about asking for references---most people are new and looking for answers. They don't know any of the members and I doubt they know any pros to give them a reference. So they don't know anybody and they can't join.

It isn't hard to pick out the just advertisers--they usually have less than 15 posts(all ad stuff) and very seldom answer questions about their ads (cause they usually aren't on site). They never mention when the item has been sold. Then half a year later you see another one of their ads. Your site already registers what the majority of a person's post are. If it is all ads you should be able to filter them out(IMO).

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by admin » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:34 pm

Good points. Just thinking out loud.

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by cptn » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:53 pm

I signed to this forum with a toy breed and checked "no" for hunting. I do have a bird dog, but I don't hunt. I have found tjis forum very helpful, but I didn't know its members were so inclusive. I enjoy learning about what my dog was bred for, but if I can "learn" through lurking, makes me feel excluded. I guess it comes down to the title and what's considered a gun dog. A dog that is bred to hunt, or a dog that was bred to actually exercise what it was bred for. This was the only forum that actively discussed my breed.

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by admin » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:34 pm

Anyone who wants to talk all things gun dog is more than welcome. I just noticed that the smarter spammers have been typing in real dog breeds,trying to look like "real" people. Turns out a lot of real people look like real people, too.

Nothing like learning in front of an audience!

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by Trekmoor » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:59 am

I really don't know how best to combat the problem of spammers or of non hunting people on a forum. I can say that here in Britain some of our gundog forums eventually had too many folk on them with "fluffy" ideas on dog training. It became a bit of a thought to post advice to people asking for help if that advice contained anything other than praise and treat based training methods. If advice was given that contained correction or aversive training methods those posts were attacked by the "fluffies." This made people like me reluctant to post. Any discussion that started on the proper use of e-collars for example was very quickly attacked on a personal level. I very seldom ever use e-collars but I was labelled as cruel along with anyone else who just wanted to know how they worked even if they didn't have any intention to own one.

I believe one forum that had been very popular with spaniel trialers became a sort of pet pooches forum . Some of it's former members migrated onto the forum I now use but even it has some trouble with "pet dog" types of folk . It's mods very firmly tell these folk that all posts must be kept polite even if a posts training ideas are strongly disagreed with.
I hadn't meant this post to be so long but I would not like to see this forum swamped out by non-gundog working people. I am not in favour of the mods requiring "referals" prior to someone becoming a member of this forum for the simple and selfish reason that if referals were required I could not have become a member .

Bill T.

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by gotpointers » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:31 am

The problem I have seen many times here is when someone who's probably been here a while will sign up under another name and start a negative thread about another breeder or line. Fights start up and the fake poster is never seen again. That's one reason many long time and experienced forum members and breeders will never post a litter here.

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by SubMariner » Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:15 pm

admin wrote:See attachment.
While I understand your dilemma, there are people who are interested in gun dogs that may not currently own one. I see it all the time on the scuba forums I hang around (and where I have Modded). Generally these people are interested in the sport and may even want to get into it in some way/shape/form. Or they may be people who are in professions that may offer some insight into the inner workings of the forum, like vets, trainers, nutritionists, etc. They might not actually OWN a Gun Dog, but they may be able to offer some good information nevertheless.

That being said, I think having this type of filter is actually a good idea. At least you can take a look at them on a case-by-case basis & the spammers/bots will be automatically weeded out.

FWIW,

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by admin » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:09 am

Here is an example of a lazy spammer.
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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by deke » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:15 pm

I think it would be a good idea to have some sort of questionaire so that we can possibly try to weed out some of the spammers and people that are just here to try to sell things. But then again you have to be careful because many people on here are pretty new to hunting dogs compared to some of the more seasoned memebers on here. I know when I first found this site I would visit everyday amazed at what people who actually took the time with their dogs could acomplish. Now after a year or two being a member, and applying many great tips from people on here, I can honestly say it has made my dogs much better, which has intern led me deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole. I learn new things every time i log onto this forum, and I would hate to see us starting to shut people out based on not knowing enough about dogs, especially when they are on here to pick the brains of more experienced people.

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by mountaindogs » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:22 pm

I think you should not restrict membership to those who actually hunt or have hunting dogs currently but I do like your questio of intent/ interest.

As to sellers... this topic has been visited before. For the most part the members mentally weed out the "free posting only " ads on their own. That said there are certain ads that frustrate me... dogs for sale ads like :
litter of shorthairs for sale. Well bread. :roll:
But sometimes after a few promts these folks put up photos qnd pedigrees or tell about why they had this litter... if not they dismiss this forum and move on I imagine. Both people and dogs can learn...

I also get a bit of a red flag when I see 1 user posting multiple dogs for sale frequently. But if you restricted that then I would not be able to make this mental note about them. So sometimes there is learning for me even though THEY may be taking advantage of some great free advirtising.

So I'd say hand picking the members will be enough when you have a touch more info.

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by Kmack » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:32 pm

I think that a questionnaire to determine whether or not a new member would be a potential GDS customer would be most appropriate. I think some knowledge of your product line would show at least some interest while no knowledge should be a clear hint of non-interest. Additional benefit might be gaining some useful information about members.

Can't help you with what that survey might look like but I bet you guys could come up with something which would be hard to mislead. Maybe a multiple guess quiz about GDS products (in the generic sense) - long enough that a spammer would become annoyed with looking up the answers.

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by SubMariner » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:40 pm

Kmack wrote:I think that a questionnaire to determine whether or not a new member would be a potential GDS customer would be most appropriate. I think some knowledge of your product line would show at least some interest while no knowledge should be a clear hint of non-interest. Additional benefit might be gaining some useful information about members.

Can't help you with what that survey might look like but I bet you guys could come up with something which would be hard to mislead. Maybe a multiple guess quiz about GDS products (in the generic sense) - long enough that a spammer would become annoyed with looking up the answers.
This is first & foremost a forum about gun dogs. The fact that the site was purchased from the original owner & now is o/o by the people that own GDS is ancillary to the reason why it exists. (Although it was a natural and synergistic move that they did make the connection.)

Some people were a little apprehensive when the website was sold. However, the Snells have wisely left GDF alone. IMHO, the only reason people are on here is because we are not being pushed to buy products or visit GDS. Frankly, the merits of that business stand on their own. And when GDS is actually mentioned here, the comments are genuine and not just shills.

So I strongly disagree that GDS "products" should be the standard by which you judge whether or not someone is "membership material".

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:11 pm

I think you missed the point completely. It was suggested we use a questionare about some product that we are familiar with such as something handled by GDS instead of something we know nothing about or doesn't apply to owning a gun dog. Sure makes sense to me since a questionare we know nothing about would be useless.

Ezzy

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by Kmack » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:40 pm

SubMariner wrote:
Kmack wrote:I think that a questionnaire to determine whether or not a new member would be a potential GDS customer would be most appropriate. I think some knowledge of your product line would show at least some interest while no knowledge should be a clear hint of non-interest. Additional benefit might be gaining some useful information about members.

Can't help you with what that survey might look like but I bet you guys could come up with something which would be hard to mislead. Maybe a multiple guess quiz about GDS products (in the generic sense) - long enough that a spammer would become annoyed with looking up the answers.
This is first & foremost a forum about gun dogs. The fact that the site was purchased from the original owner & now is o/o by the people that own GDS is ancillary to the reason why it exists. (Although it was a natural and synergistic move that they did make the connection.)

Some people were a little apprehensive when the website was sold. However, the Snells have wisely left GDF alone. IMHO, the only reason people are on here is because we are not being pushed to buy products or visit GDS. Frankly, the merits of that business stand on their own. And when GDS is actually mentioned here, the comments are genuine and not just shills.

So I strongly disagree that GDS "products" should be the standard by which you judge whether or not someone is "membership material".
I was thinking more down the line of:

1. When do you use stake out chains?
2. What does the continuous button on an e-collar do?
3. Do you prefer a Wonder Lead or a Check cord for heel training? Why.

Just general questions about some of the products GDS sells and that we all use and know about.

Something down those lines would allow folks with general dog interest to come and lurk but keep those spammers out.

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by Sharon » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:27 pm

WDhen I first registered, I would have failed. :)

" 3. Do you prefer a Wonder Lead or a Check cord for heel training? Why.?" What is the answer to this question? :)
Last edited by Sharon on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by Deuce » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:42 pm

Sharon wrote:WDhen I first registered, I would have failed. :)
X2

I found this site and joined to ask questions and get help training my first gun dog. I worry that this survey for new members will only drive people away from registering and it could make GDF seem a bit elitist. I know the purpose is to make Rob & the mods job easier, I'm all in favor of that. This has been an invaluable resource for me, I'd hate to create an atmosphere that isn't welcoming.

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by SubMariner » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:39 pm

Kmack wrote:
SubMariner wrote:
Kmack wrote:I think that a questionnaire to determine whether or not a new member would be a potential GDS customer would be most appropriate. I think some knowledge of your product line would show at least some interest while no knowledge should be a clear hint of non-interest. Additional benefit might be gaining some useful information about members.

Can't help you with what that survey might look like but I bet you guys could come up with something which would be hard to mislead. Maybe a multiple guess quiz about GDS products (in the generic sense) - long enough that a spammer would become annoyed with looking up the answers.
This is first & foremost a forum about gun dogs. The fact that the site was purchased from the original owner & now is o/o by the people that own GDS is ancillary to the reason why it exists. (Although it was a natural and synergistic move that they did make the connection.)

Some people were a little apprehensive when the website was sold. However, the Snells have wisely left GDF alone. IMHO, the only reason people are on here is because we are not being pushed to buy products or visit GDS. Frankly, the merits of that business stand on their own. And when GDS is actually mentioned here, the comments are genuine and not just shills.

So I strongly disagree that GDS "products" should be the standard by which you judge whether or not someone is "membership material".
I was thinking more down the line of:

1. When do you use stake out chains?
2. What does the continuous button on an e-collar do?
3. Do you prefer a Wonder Lead or a Check cord for heel training? Why.

Just general questions about some of the products GDS sells and that we all use and know about.

Something down those lines would allow folks with general dog interest to come and lurk but keep those spammers out.
The questions are far too complicated. Not only would it require a certain level of knowledge (which would automatically exclude people new to the sport) but you'd basically have to write an essay to cover each topic.

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by Kmack » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:15 am

I guess maybe I need to re-think.

How about:

If little Johnny starts with 2 apples and gives 1 to Sally, how many apples does little Johnny have left?

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by Cajun Casey » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:07 am

Make it a breed identification quiz. Picture of a blue belton setter and a greater Munsterlander and have them correctly identify the long haired Dalmatian. Simple.

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by CHJIII » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:20 am

Cajun Casey wrote:Make it a breed identification quiz. Picture of a blue belton setter and a greater Munsterlander and have them correctly identify the long haired Dalmatian. Simple.
Or you could just ask them straight up if they think a GSP will ever win Ames. That will tell lots!.........LOL

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by campgsp » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:39 am

I like the question and answer method. I think common place questions like these anyone really coming here for help or with true knowledge of bird dogs can answer these.

1. What kind of gun dog/s do you own? Obviously if they have a Pitbull they're in the wrong forum. Well I guess if the Pitbull isn't a sporting breed. :wink:

2. What types of game do you or are you planning on hunting with this dog/s? I say use the word "game" instead of birds or fur to test them. Anyone newbie or not who is planning on making a bird dog out of their dog know what game they are after. Let it be teal,Ballard,wood duck,geese,pheasant,chukar,quail,grouse,etc. I say exclude the words waterfowl and upland all Together. anyone with good intentions to have a bird dog for hunting has some knowledge of game species. They bought the dog for hunting right...?

3. Are you going to test the dog? No is ok.
4. What types of tests?
Obviously if they say they want to show their dog and that's all. They're in the wrong forum. I have no problems with shows but if that's all they consider then....

5. What kind of shotgun do you have or plan on buying?
Common sense says that when you buy a bird dog you have to have or soon be getting a shotgun. Otherwise how do they intend on really hunting the dog?

Just some simple questions that anyone really interested in having hinting dog to hunt behind beginner or not should have no problem answering.
Last edited by campgsp on Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by Cajun Casey » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:45 am

campgsp wrote:I like the question and answer method. I think common place questions like these anyone really coming here for help or with true knowledge of bird dogs can answer these.

1. What kind of gun dog/s do you own? Obviously if they have a poodle they're in the wrong forum.

2. What types of game do you or are you planning on hunting with this dog/s? I say use the word "game" instead of birds or fur to test them. Anyone newbie or not who is planning on making a bird dog out of their dog know what game they are after. Let it be teal,Ballard,wood duck,geese,pheasant,chukar,quail,grouse,etc. I say exclude the words waterfowl and upland all Together. anyone with good intentions to have a bird dog for hunting has some knowledge of game species. They bought the dog for hunting right...?

3. Are you going to test the dog? No is ok.
4. What types of tests?
Obviously if they say they want to show their dog and that's all. They're in the wrong forum. I have no problems with shows but if that's all they consider then....

5. What kind of shotgun do you have or plan on buying?
Common sense says that when you buy a bird dog you have to have or soon be getting a shotgun. Otherwise how do they intend on really hunting the dog?

Just some simple questions that anyone really interested in having hinting dog to hunt behind beginner or not should have no problem answering.
I have known three people with standard poodles that duck hunted with them.

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by campgsp » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:05 am

Ya ya I know all about poodles being used as retrievers. I was just making a some what example not a ton of people use poodles a lot. geeze laweis.

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Re: Approving new members by hand

Post by Xhipi1 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:37 am

Poodles were originally bred as hunting dogs and are still used as retrievers. Look at Si from duck dynasty he proved Phil and Jase wrong with his poodle. :D

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