My Dilema

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Nate K
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My Dilema

Post by Nate K » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:24 pm

So back on Feb. 15th I looked at a Black Lab pup that was for sale. The seller (not a breeder) said that they would be ready for pickup by March 5th.

I called him today to find out if it would be possible to pick him up on Sunday since I will be driving through (he lives an hour away). He said that they were going back for second shots on Monday so wouldn't be able to pick up until Tuesday. He said he would call me when he got home to tell me for sure.

So he calls back and says the guy who has first pick is out of town and won't be back until that Friday so the soonest I could pick him up would be Saturday the 9th.

I am pretty mad right now. When we went to look at the pups in the first place I thought they were ready to go and didn't find out until we got there that they weren't. So I have already been waiting a few weeks and was looking forward to getting him next week and now it got pushed back again.

To date I still haven't been able to pick out which dog I want and I don't want to get stuck with the last of the liter.

I decided to start calling around and looking for another dog. I found a breeder who has one left that will be ready for pick up on this Friday. It is a little more money, a female, but this one comes with papers. The one I originally was getting didn't have papers but mom and dad both had papers (I saw them) but I really don't care much about that since the dog is going to be for hunting and a family pet. At no point will I do trails or other competitions.

I am thinking about getting the female because even though I wanted a male it seems to be a better deal. Cost is $250 more than what the male was. I just feel like the guy is giving me the run around and this guy with first pick should of picked it out before he left. Why do I have to wait because he decided to go out of town?

Curious what others think?

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Back
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Re: My Dilema

Post by Back » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:27 pm

Initial purchase price of the pup should be the least of your worries. Why spend good money on a pup without papers?

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Re: My Dilema

Post by topher40 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:28 pm

Go with your gut, if it feels fishy then it probably is.

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Re: My Dilema

Post by MJCarbonaro » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:09 pm

. At no point will I do trails or other competitions.
I thought the same thing....and now I am hooked on trials....I say go with your gut, and it sounds like you are leaning towards the female with papers. There a tons of good lab litters out there, don't rush into something.

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Re: My Dilema

Post by ultracarry » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:16 pm

Kinda fishy when both parents are papered and they won't come with them. Sounds like pit/lab mixes....

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Re: My Dilema

Post by slistoe » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:17 pm

Simply having papers is no assurance of quality if you are considering getting into any tests/trials - pay for papers that show a trail of proven performance - otherwise you are just as well off with a rescue dog from the pound.

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Nate K
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Re: My Dilema

Post by Nate K » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:21 pm

After a bunch of discussion between myself and the original seller we decided to just part ways.

I feel like I was lied to from the start and not happy about it.

I will call the kennel back in the morning and let them know I will be up on Friday to pick up the female. Having papers does mean something even though it wasn't really important to me. It is worth the extra $250 to get her this week and have the papers.

Can someone be so kind as to tell me why females are always more expensive than males?

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Re: My Dilema

Post by slistoe » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:13 pm

Nate K wrote:
Can someone be so kind as to tell me why females are always more expensive than males?
Supply and demand?

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Nate K
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Re: My Dilema

Post by Nate K » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:22 pm

Is it really that simple?

I was expecting a much more complex answer. I have heard a few people say they only get females because males are much more hard headed but I wasn't sure how much truth was really in that.

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Re: My Dilema

Post by Wildweeds » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:35 am

Females being worth more than males is a bull poo poo breeder deal as far as I'm concerned,Its a way for a breeder to get more money out of a pup based on the potential downstream money that COULD potentially be made should an UNSCROUPULOS breeder such as THEMSELVES........... have a litter.

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Re: My Dilema

Post by cjhills » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:49 am

We don't practice sexual discrimination, all priced the same. Cj

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Re: My Dilema

Post by Double Shot Banks » Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:17 am

I know its good to have a dog with papers, but remember a dog cant read :wink:
go with what you think, if possible look at all your options but if thats out of the picture, think of what you want in the long run.
If you wanted a male, dont "settle" for a female. You will have the dog for a long time, so get what you want, go with your gut

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Re: My Dilema

Post by Birddog 307 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:16 am

Lab pups are a dime a dozen. Everywhere you look labs are for sale. I would do my research and try to buy the best bred pups with what you are looking for in a dog. Research the parents!!!! Check with customers that have bought pups from the breeder before and make sure the parents have good hips , elbows and eyes. Does the breeder guarantee their health? Don't just get any lab pup try and get the best for what you want. This is a long term investment.
Birddog 307

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Re: My Dilema

Post by RoostersMom » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:42 am

Birddog 307 wrote:Lab pups are a dime a dozen. Everywhere you look labs are for sale. I would do my research and try to buy the best bred pups with what you are looking for in a dog. Research the parents!!!! Check with customers that have bought pups from the breeder before and make sure the parents have good hips , elbows and eyes. Does the breeder guarantee their health? Don't just get any lab pup try and get the best for what you want. This is a long term investment.
Birddog 307

Ditto - there are more labs out there than any other dog breed. But I sure wouldn't rush into getting a pup just because you wanted one this week. The hips, elbows, and eye testing is very important in labs. I know several folks who've dealt with the heartbreak of hip dysplasia - it ain't fun and it sure ain't cheap. I personally don't see anything wrong with waiting until the last minute to pick out the pup - I'm a fan of the breeder being able to really steer you in the right direction for the right pup. If you want a male instead of a female, just practice a little patience, find the right litter, and get the dog you really want. You're talking about a dog that will likely be with you for 13 - 15 years. Get the right one.

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Re: My Dilema

Post by mtlhdr » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:32 pm

Nate K wrote: and I don't want to get stuck with the last of the liter.
These were your words in your first post, yet isn't this exactly what you are letting happen by getting the pup from a breeder who has one left? I want to echo what others are saying. You are going to have this dog for a long time, no sense in rushing to get one if it doesn't feel right. heck, I ate a fairly sizable deposit over a disagreement with the breeder over puppy choice (or in my case lack of choice because the litter was so small), and I would do it all over again. Do your homework, you should fairly easily find a very good lab and probably won't have to wait very long either. Good luck.

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Re: My Dilema

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:22 pm

There probably are more Field Champions that were the last pick of the litter than any other pick. Picking a pup is all by chance in most cases as long as you pick from a good litter. And a good litter comes from dogs that perform as you like them to. Male or female makes little difference but get which ever you want if you have strong feelings. Sounds like you made up your mind and I think you did well. I probably wouldn't have objected to having to wait for the first pup since most pups are seperated too young and by being there longer would have been an advantage to you. But I also wouldn't even consider buying a pup without papers. There are too many things in your future that could depend on having those papers and there is absolutely no advantage in not having them.

Good luck with your pup and I'm sure you will all love her.

Ezzy

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Re: My Dilema

Post by Gordon Guy » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:37 pm

Nate K wrote:Is it really that simple?

I was expecting a much more complex answer. I have heard a few people say they only get females because males are much more hard headed but I wasn't sure how much truth was really in that.

I'd rather choose a male for a personal hunting dog any day. I've spoke with many "serious" dog people who say the same thing.

In my experiences males are more level headed and females tend to get a little "intolerant" later in life...That goes for dogs too :)

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Re: My Dilema

Post by jetjockey » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:18 pm

As the owner of a female you typically get to chose what stud dog you breed to. Not always, but usually. It's harder to build a breeding program with a male but no female, unless the male is good enough that everyone ways to breed to it. Plus, as the owner of the female, you can chose what happens to the liter. Do you sell them or keep them till they are older to weed out. Or, do you keep one or two and sell the rest? If you plan on trialing, males are easier since you don't have to worry about them going into heat. But they aren't necessarily better in the field.

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Re: My Dilema

Post by kninebirddog » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:51 pm

RoostersMom wrote:
Birddog 307 wrote:Lab pups are a dime a dozen. Everywhere you look labs are for sale. I would do my research and try to buy the best bred pups with what you are looking for in a dog. Research the parents!!!! Check with customers that have bought pups from the breeder before and make sure the parents have good hips , elbows and eyes. Does the breeder guarantee their health? Don't just get any lab pup try and get the best for what you want. This is a long term investment.
Birddog 307

Ditto - there are more labs out there than any other dog breed. But I sure wouldn't rush into getting a pup just because you wanted one this week. The hips, elbows, and eye testing is very important in labs. I know several folks who've dealt with the heartbreak of hip dysplasia - it ain't fun and it sure ain't cheap. I personally don't see anything wrong with waiting until the last minute to pick out the pup - I'm a fan of the breeder being able to really steer you in the right direction for the right pup. If you want a male instead of a female, just practice a little patience, find the right litter, and get the dog you really want. You're talking about a dog that will likely be with you for 13 - 15 years. Get the right one.
X2

if I were to ever get a lab for hunting purposes I would make sure the Dam and Sire have OFA and I believe it is EIC Clear (Hope someone can explain this one more in detail but labs with this will not last long) and hunt tested back ground ...There are far to many labs being bred for the all mighty $$$$$ you can look in your local paper and find a bunch of couch potato yard pooch labs being bred that have no hunting instinct bred into them at all.

To add your dilemma just maybe a serious Blessing in disguise

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Re: My Dilema

Post by Cajun Casey » Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:07 pm

EIC is excercise induced collapse, It is recessive and both patents must contribute for the offspring to be affected. Basically, it does what the name implies - exertion causes the dog to physically collapse. There is another genetic disease that is related in Labs and the tests come from France.

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Re: My Dilema

Post by Nate K » Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:36 pm

I really appreciate all the input everyone.

I originally was getting the male lab from a private seller who has three labs, 2 male and 1 female and he says that he never intended for them to breed and that is why he wasn't getting papers on them. He was a hunter and had a lot of papers on the parents. But that deal is dead and I don't feel bad about it at all. The whole situation left a bad taste in my mouth.

I can do a google search for "Lab puppies for sale in Wisconsin" and come up with thousands of results. I talked to this breeder last night and they really impressed me. The breeders also have silver labs which I am interested in looking into being put on a list for. My mom really loves them and its not often I am able to get her something she actually likes. :D

I did want a male but getting a female is not a deal breaker by any means. Like someone else said we would have the option to breed her in the future if we choose. I really am not that picky but the pup does come with a health guarantee which is important. The original dog did not come with anything like that.

My biggest problems are:

1. I am impatient. I am well aware of this flaw and I have learned to just live with it. When I want something I want it now and it drives the Mrs. crazy.

2. I love to learn something new without having any experience with it. I haven't trained a dog before and I really don't want to spend $1100 or more on a pup if I screw something up and it ends up being a family pet and can't hunt. Once I am successful in training my first one I will feel much more comfortable dropping more money on a dog. Might sound harsh but that is the truth of the matter.

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Re: My Dilema

Post by baileydog2007 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:50 am

I would question how reputable your new breeder is. More for a female??? It happens, but it total bs. Like lab litters who charge more for the yellows??? Same freaking litter, they are doing it for the cash, period. And just word of caution, training a dog and impatience are not a good mix.......

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Re: My Dilema

Post by Vision » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:23 am

Nate K wrote: Like someone else said we would have the option to breed her in the future if we choose.
I really would recommend that spay or neuter either sex puppy you get. The World does not need any more labs, or any hunting breed dogs without health clearance's.

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Re: My Dilema

Post by slistoe » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:32 am

Nate K wrote: Like someone else said we would have the option to breed her in the future if we choose.
You really should buy a silver one then - gold mine on legs - everyone wants one of those "rare" colored labs at any cost (even if they are not a recognized color by any Labrador Breed Club anywhere in the entire world).

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Re: My Dilema

Post by ultracarry » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:32 am

I need to brush up on if my dog could be successful or not. Guess since she was the last of 13 pups to get picked out of the pet store she should have sucked. Guess she didn't get the memo.

I would say vision is right about the spay or neuter...

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Re: My Dilema

Post by Nate K » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:24 am

slistoe wrote: You really should buy a silver one then - gold mine on legs - everyone wants one of those "rare" colored labs at any cost (even if they are not a recognized color by any Labrador Breed Club anywhere in the entire world).
Might be wrong but I am sure I read on the AKC website that silver is just a shade of Chocolate Lab. So why wouldn't chocolate labs be recognized by Breed Clubs? That seems kinda silly. And I guess it really wouldn't matter since I am sure my mother wouldn't breed it since she hasn't bred any of the other labs, shitzu's, poodles, and other dogs she owned over the years. But if you feel you need to bash on my mom now to feel better please go ahead.
ultracarry wrote:I need to brush up on if my dog could be successful or not. Guess since she was the last of 13 pups to get picked out of the pet store she should have sucked. Guess she didn't get the memo.
I don't think pet stores give memos to the puppies they sell, but I never bought a dog from a pet store so I could be wrong. I also don't remember anyone saying that the last pick couldn't be successful? I just remember saying that I was told I could pick out my pup and then being told I couldn't pick I had to wait to last pup. Not sure if you were trying to be funny or if you are that insecure in your dog? I would guess there is nothing wrong with your dog. I would guess most people buying dogs at pet stores are not looking for anything more than a household pet. I never considered looking at a pet store for a dog. I automatically assumed if I wanted a dog to use for hunting I should look for a dog with parents with a hunting background.

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Re: My Dilema

Post by deseeker » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:27 am

The price of a puppy is just a drop in the bucket COMPARED to what you will spend on the dog over it's 12+ years of life. Food, vet bills, dog training equipment, road trips to hunt, etc. will end up amounting to a lot of money---the pup is the cheapest part of the deal. You need patience to train a pup (IMO).

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Re: My Dilema

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:50 am

deseeker wrote:The price of a puppy is just a drop in the bucket COMPARED to what you will spend on the dog over it's 12+ years of life. Food, vet bills, dog training equipment, road trips to hunt, etc. will end up amounting to a lot of money---the pup is the cheapest part of the deal. You need patience to train a pup (IMO).
I agree with the patience if anyone is going to train a dog. I don't understand the argument that is makes no difference what you spend because something else might cost more. That sounds like the math our government uses.

And if anyone with a unspayed dog is advising someone else to get their pup spayed before he even gets it home seems to me kind of hypocritical. Especially some one who is so proud of his pet store dog. I think spay and neuter is the owners choice and if he does decide to raise a litter if his dog turns out good won't increase the population a bit more than every other litter. It just seems like a very poor way of explaining the real reason spay or neuter should be practised by some probably if they can't be responsible owners.

And the Silver Lab thing would turn me off too since they are not accepted in the breed standard and their is a very good possibility they came about because of a Weim cross. I have seen several and only one that looked or acted like a Lab which is disturbing. But in my world, which I know is outdated and obsolete, the standard is the rule you breed by and any dog that doesn't conform to that standard in everyway is not a represenative of the breed and should not ever enter the breeding pool.

Ezzy

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Re: My Dilema

Post by nikegundog » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:59 am

Nate K wrote: Might be wrong but I am sure I read on the AKC website that silver is just a shade of Chocolate Lab. So why wouldn't chocolate labs be recognized by Breed Clubs? That seems kinda silly. And I guess it really wouldn't matter since I am sure my mother wouldn't breed it since she hasn't bred any of the other labs, shitzu's, poodles, and other dogs she owned over the years. But if you feel you need to bash on my mom now to feel better please go ahead.
Nate, this is from the Labrador Retriever Club, they more or less set the standard for the AKC.

BUYER BEWARE!

TRUE LABRADOR RETRIEVERS ARE BLACK, YELLOW, AND CHOCOLATE ONLY!


The Issue of the Silver Labrador

Frances O Smith, DVM, PhD Chair, Labrador Retriever Club, Inc. Genetics Committee

It is the opinion of the Labrador Retriever Club, Inc., the AKC parent club for the breed, that a silver Labrador is not a purebred Labrador retriever. The pet owning public is being duped into believing that animals with this dilute coat color are desirable, purebred and rare and, therefore, warrant special notoriety or a premium purchase price.

Over the past few years a limited number of breeders have advertised and sold dogs they represent to be purebred Labrador Retrievers with a dilute or gray coat color—hence the term “silver labs.” The AKC has accepted some of these “silver labs” for registration. Apparently, the rationale for this decision is that the silver coat color is a shade of chocolate. Interestingly, the original breeders of “silver” Labradors were also involved in the Weimaraner breed.

Although we cannot conclusively prove that the silver Labrador is a product of crossbreeding the Weimaraner to a Labrador, there is good evidence in scientific literature indicating that the Labrador has never been identified as carrying the dilute gene dd. The Weimaraner is the only known breed in which the universality of dd is a characteristic.
http://www.thelabradorclub.com/subpages ... +Labradors

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Re: My Dilema

Post by Nate K » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:08 am

deseeker wrote:The price of a puppy is just a drop in the bucket COMPARED to what you will spend on the dog over it's 12+ years of life. Food, vet bills, dog training equipment, road trips to hunt, etc. will end up amounting to a lot of money---the pup is the cheapest part of the deal. You need patience to train a pup (IMO).
You got that right. I spent $800 on the puppy the weekend I dropped off my deposit. That was just for the basics.

Maybe I need to explain I am not some young kid barely able to wipe my own "bleep". I am in my 30's and have had dogs in my life. Sure it has been a few years since I refused to have one while I was in the Army. Hard to take care of a dog when your shipping off to Iraq and Korea every other year. But now I am at a place and time where I am ready to bring one home.

Yes I am impatient when I want something, but this has no effect on my ability to train a dog. I think my patience has been tested time and time again between my business, time in the Army, raising three teenage daughters, managing three apartment buildings, and countless other things that push someones patience to the limits. I think the pup will be just fine.

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Re: My Dilema

Post by Cajun Casey » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:19 am

Nate, go to www.huntingretrieverclub.org and find a group near you. HRC is a UKC title program and, like all UKC events, is very user friendly. They have training days and tests. Your girls might enjoy it, also. The registration on the dog doesn't matter so long as it's AKC or UKC or even APLA (pretty sure on the last). I have a friend who just got a new AKC top line trial bred black male, asking price $1500.00. Myself, I don't care for the breed, would rather pay for a bald cat, but this is a NICE pup. Having said that, with the right support, you can succeed with pretty much any pup you put some effort into. Good luck.

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Re: My Dilema

Post by JeremyS » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:37 am

You do have a well known, reputable breeder not too far from you. Look up Candlewood kennels in Portage, Wi. I'm not a lab guy, but have heard plenty of good about their dogs. I would also avoid anyone who breeds silvers, just because of the questionable origins and the fact that they are being bred as something "designer." In my opinion, health clearances are super important when it comes to labs. At a minimum I would expect both parents to have OFA good or excellent hips and be EIC and CNM clear. I've seen labs with hip problems and EIC and both problems make for miserable dog ownership. I will tell you from my experience many years ago when I got into dogs, I thought it would be good to spend less on the first dog since I was just learning. All I learned was how to do things the hard way and it ended up costing me a lot more money in the long run. It did motivate me to research the breeding behind my dogs better and do things the right way from then on.
Last edited by JeremyS on Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: My Dilema

Post by asc » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:23 pm

Nate K wrote:
deseeker wrote:The price of a puppy is just a drop in the bucket COMPARED to what you will spend on the dog over it's 12+ years of life. Food, vet bills, dog training equipment, road trips to hunt, etc. will end up amounting to a lot of money---the pup is the cheapest part of the deal. You need patience to train a pup (IMO).
You got that right. I spent $800 on the puppy the weekend I dropped off my deposit. That was just for the basics.

Maybe I need to explain I am not some young kid barely able to wipe my own "bleep". I am in my 30's and have had dogs in my life. Sure it has been a few years since I refused to have one while I was in the Army. Hard to take care of a dog when your shipping off to Iraq and Korea every other year. But now I am at a place and time where I am ready to bring one home.

Yes I am impatient when I want something, but this has no effect on my ability to train a dog. I think my patience has been tested time and time again between my business, time in the Army, raising three teenage daughters, managing three apartment buildings, and countless other things that push someones patience to the limits. I think the pup will be just fine.
With all that experience I figgered you had to be at least 130... :lol:

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Re: My Dilema

Post by Nate K » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:57 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:Nate, go to http://www.huntingretrieverclub.org and find a group near you. HRC is a UKC title program and, like all UKC events, is very user friendly. They have training days and tests. Your girls might enjoy it, also. The registration on the dog doesn't matter so long as it's AKC or UKC or even APLA (pretty sure on the last). I have a friend who just got a new AKC top line trial bred black male, asking price $1500.00. Myself, I don't care for the breed, would rather pay for a bald cat, but this is a NICE pup. Having said that, with the right support, you can succeed with pretty much any pup you put some effort into. Good luck.
Thank you for the link. Nice helpful info.
asc wrote:With all that experience I figgered you had to be at least 130... :lol:
The Mrs.'s says I act like I am about that age.

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Re: My Dilema

Post by nikegundog » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:14 pm

So you went with the silver?

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Re: My Dilema

Post by Nate K » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:20 pm

nikegundog wrote:So you went with the silver?
I haven't gone with anything.

At this point I have only not gone with the original pup who's owner kept changing the terms every time I talked to him.

I am getting a black lab for myself, I never planned to buy a silver for me. My mother shown interest in a silver.

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Nate K
Rank: Junior Hunter
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:52 pm
Location: Waterford, WI

Re: My Dilema

Post by Nate K » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:04 pm

UPDATE:

So last friday I went to go look at the female black lab. I got to see her parents and was happy with what I saw so I bought her.

She has been home for a week and couldn't be happier with her.

We have spent the entire time bonding and there is no question who she belongs too. While she likes playing with the kids you usually find her laying by my feet.

We have been working on basic obidence training (sit, come, down) and I am not rushing anything. Thought we had her just about potty trained but she has taken a step back. Not too worried about it since I know it takes time.

She does love pheasant wings though but just starting to get her to retreive. We do about two or three attempts a day.

For those who said I should get her spayed I am going to have that done. I have no interest in breeding her.

Also we will not be getting a silver lab for my mother.

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deseeker
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Re: My Dilema

Post by deseeker » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:07 pm

Congrates on getting the new pup. Have fun with the training and hunting :D

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buckeyebowman
Rank: Junior Hunter
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Location: Ohio

Re: My Dilema

Post by buckeyebowman » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:02 pm

Nate K wrote:
deseeker wrote:The price of a puppy is just a drop in the bucket COMPARED to what you will spend on the dog over it's 12+ years of life. Food, vet bills, dog training equipment, road trips to hunt, etc. will end up amounting to a lot of money---the pup is the cheapest part of the deal. You need patience to train a pup (IMO).
You got that right. I spent $800 on the puppy the weekend I dropped off my deposit. That was just for the basics.

Maybe I need to explain I am not some young kid barely able to wipe my own "bleep". I am in my 30's and have had dogs in my life. Sure it has been a few years since I refused to have one while I was in the Army. Hard to take care of a dog when your shipping off to Iraq and Korea every other year. But now I am at a place and time where I am ready to bring one home.

Yes I am impatient when I want something, but this has no effect on my ability to train a dog. I think my patience has been tested time and time again between my business, time in the Army, raising three teenage daughters,
managing three apartment buildings, and countless other things that push someones patience to the limits. I think the pup will be just fine.
Since you are on this forum I'm guessing that you haven't killed or maimed any teenage boys, well, at least not yet! :lol: So I figure your level of patience is just fine, more than adequate for training your new hunting buddy! Congratulations, and enjoy your new dog!

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ezzy333
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Re: My Dilema

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:38 pm

And do not get her spayed till she is mature. You are asking for all sorts of expensive problems when it is done as a puppy. They need the hormones to develop properly.

Ezzy

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Nate K
Rank: Junior Hunter
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Location: Waterford, WI

Re: My Dilema

Post by Nate K » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:44 pm

Thanks Ezzzy.....Sharon was kind enough to mention that also.

We will hold off for a while.

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