English Pointer Coloration

[tott1724]

Im looking at getting my first english pointer puppy. The breeder Im considering has two males left. An orange and white and a liver and white. The liver and white is 90% liver and the rest white. Ive heard stories that this coloration is from poor genes or a mix. Is there any truth to this?

And does anyone have any thoughts on introducing a new puppy to a 4 yo female mixed breed dog. Am I on the right track of picking a male as to not have to females in the same household? Thanks in advance for any tips.

[birdogg42]

Im looking at getting my first english pointer puppy. The breeder Im considering has two males left. An orange and white and a liver and white. The liver and white is 90% liver and the rest white. Ive heard stories that this coloration is from poor genes or a mix. Is there any truth to this?

And does anyone have any thoughts on introducing a new puppy to a 4 yo female mixed breed dog. Am I on the right track of picking a male as to not have to females in the same household? Thanks in advance for any tips.

Get the pup u like the best. If u like a bunch of color then get it. I've never heard of that being from poor genetics. I hope your female is fixed. Good luck

Mike

[gotpointers]

I had two direct honky tonk attitude offspring and they were 50-50 white and liver at the most. Honky tonk is known to.resemble a shorthair. I have never seen an English pointer with that much liver. A good dog is a good dog regardless if its green pink or liver. But something is suspicious on that pup in my opinion. Can you post pictures possibly?

[Carolina Gundogs]

I was under the impression that we bred the predominantly white dogs here in the US. I believe I have seen old pictures of Pointers in England of Scotland that were predominantly dark colored. However, I could be wrong.

I googled black English pointers and easily came up with quite a few pictures of dark colored pointers .

[hustonmc]

Pedigree?

[tott1724]

Here is a link to the breeders listing on gundogbreeders.com. These are the pictures of the remaining pups. 2 males, 1 female. My female house dog is fixed.

http://www.gundogbreeders.com/classifieds/29374.html

[jcbuttry8]

There may be more on here that have seen a solid liver pointer puppy, but I haven't. I am not sure what the background on this pup is. The ad says out of hunting stock. I myself would question a solid liver English pointer. And for what they are asking, there are several great pups being listed on this and other forums that come from well known stock and from reputable pointer guys. I myself would probably not invest in a solid liver English Pointer.

Go with what you want, and good luck with your choice.
M2C,

Joe

[jcbuttry8]

I went back and looked at the pics again, is it just me or does the size and shape of the other pups look a bit different than the solid pups? Maybe momma had more than one friend over for dinner that week?

Joe

[PntrRookie]

http://www.gundogbreeders.com/classifieds/29374.html

Click on their website link and go to http://www.gamebrd.com/ Scroll to the bottom and look through the pictures. Pay CLOSE attention to the text/labels in the bottom left corner. Some say "English Shorthair Pointer" Also look at the markings of the second pup...JMO but NOT pointer ONLY. IMO I would expand my search...again just one man's personal opinion

[slistoe]

http://www.gundogbreeders.com/classifieds/29374.html

Click on their website link and go to http://www.gamebrd.com/ Scroll to the bottom and look through the pictures. Pay CLOSE attention to the text/labels in the bottom left corner. Some say "English Shorthair Pointer" Also look at the markings of the second pup...JMO but NOT pointer ONLY. IMO I would expand my search...again just one man's personal opinion

I thought the same thing myself when I went to his page - I bet there is no registration with those "english shorthair" pups.

[Vision]

I looked at all the puppies in the pictures and it appears that this breeders knows nothing about dog breeds. Obviously from the ticked puppies they are supposed to be German Shorthaired Pointers, but then you have the Orange ones in the mix which indicates cross breeding.

[jcbuttry8]

http://www.gundogbreeders.com/classifieds/29374.html

Click on their website link and go to http://www.gamebrd.com/ Scroll to the bottom and look through the pictures. Pay CLOSE attention to the text/labels in the bottom left corner. Some say "English Shorthair Pointer" Also look at the markings of the second pup...JMO but NOT pointer ONLY. IMO I would expand my search...again just one man's personal opinion

I thought the same thing myself when I went to his page - I bet there is no registration with those "english shorthair" pups.

Didn't even go far enough to get to his page. Pups just didn't look the same. I give the guy some credit, he at least listed them on his website as English shorthair Pointer. At least I hope that is him being honest. Hate to think he doesn't know better having a game farm. He still has the solid liver pup listed as FDSB registered EP. That will be a hard one to pass off since he does have a load of cross puppies listed.

To the original OP, as with anything it is your choice. I just don't know that you can trust what you are getting. If you really want an EP, then shop around on this site. I know there are some great litters being bred or have already been dropped that will cost you the same or maybe 100 to 200 more.

Good luck,
Joe

[tott1724]

Thank you all for the replies. With this information I have been saved a 3+ hour drive to take a look at them. The observations made weren't obvious to me at first but once pointed out its very clear. Thanks again.

[gotpointers]

The muzzle of what's advertised by the same breeder as white and black shorthairs looks like a bench line english pointer also IMO.

[mountaindogs]

Also FTSB?? I think he means FDSB... sounds like some one repeating rhetoric they don't really know I look elsewhere if you are looking for well bred.

[mountaindogs]

Also to directly address color... a solid (even with white chest and feet..) vs ticked and patched are genetically different and solid is Dominant meaning you have to have a solid parent to get solid puppies. Does he have a solid pointer as sire or dam or does he own a solid GSP perhaps?

[RayGubernat]

tott -

I am fairly sure that the pup you are interested in is NOT a pure "english" pointer. The only predominantly liver or black pointers...are in Europe, not in the US. it is EXCEEDINGLY rare to find a black or liver pointer on this side of the Atlantic. Solid or heavily liver colored German Shorthaired Pointers are not REAL common, but there are a fair number of them in the US.

Soooo, it is a fair bet that these pups are a GSP/pointer mix of some sort. That is not a bad thing, because they are both good hunting dog breeds and good pointing dog breeds, so the pup you wind up with will likely be a decent hunter.

My only problem with this scenario is the price. Mixed breed pups with no papers should be pretty much...free. At most , $100 for the cost of raising the litter.

I will say this... I paid LESS than his advertised asking price for a VERY well bred Pointer(pick of the litter actually) from a top kennel...just last year. If you are within driving distance of this kennel, you are also within driving distance of some of the very best pointers in the country. If you are willing to spend $4-500 for a pup, you should be able to get almost anything you want in a pointer, especially if your focus is on a hunting dog. There are PLENTY of trial breeders who have youngsters who do not show one or two of the the extreme levels of performance that are needed for competition. These pups need homes too.

If you want some references, give me a shout via PM. There are several folks who breed outstanding walking dogs and some that breed outstanding horseback dogs and some that breed outstanding cover dogs. All within a three hour drive of Harrisburg.

RayG

[mountaindogs]

They certainly do occur
http://www.solivia.com/solidcoloredpointers.html

But have to have a solid parent. If they have a solid parent and expected solid, then that's good news. I like the solid look. But if they don't think one of the parents is also solid that's more than a red flag. It's a stop sign. IMHO

[mountaindogs]

Ray is right on!

[Soignie]

With all the well bred and reasonably priced puppies available it's hard to understand why you are giving those pups a second look, check on this site or Gundog Central and you can find a pup that you won't have to wonder/question the ancestry.

[Birddog3412]

Am I the only one who gets sick to their stomach looking at pics of showdogs with their tails straight back???

[birdogg42]

Am I the only one who gets sick to their stomach looking at pics of showdogs with their tails straight back???

No sir

Mike

[Cajun Casey]

The teacup Yorkie should have been a clue that quality gun dog breeding is not a priority with that outfit.

[dead mike]

I went back and looked at the pics again, is it just me or does the size and shape of the other pups look a bit different than the solid pups? Maybe momma had more than one friend over for dinner that week?

Joe

my thoughts also

[Sharon]

Im looking at getting my first english pointer puppy. The breeder Im considering has two males left. An orange and white and a liver and white. The liver and white is 90% liver and the rest white. Ive heard stories that this coloration is from poor genes or a mix. Is there any truth to this?

And does anyone have any thoughts on introducing a new puppy to a 4 yo female mixed breed dog. Am I on the right track of picking a male as to not have to females in the same household? Thanks in advance for any tips.

Are they being introduced in the house? I use a child's gate , put in the door between two rooms, and gives the dogs a day or two to get used to each other.