Trying to decide

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WillieELk78GSP
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Trying to decide

Post by WillieELk78GSP » Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:15 pm

I am trying to decide if I even want to neuter my GSP, I was thinking of breeding her but I am not sure what that takes to a breeder, any tips or opinions? And second if I were to neuter my dog at what age is the best time to do this?
Thanks for the help, you guys are the experts
will

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RoostersMom
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Re: Trying to decide

Post by RoostersMom » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:15 am

Best time to neuter is when the dog is physically mature - certainly not before a year old - and better still - 2 years or so, IMO. I'd be interested in breeding my dog IF I couldn't buy a better dog. That's usually the philosophy I follow. That said, I think I could almost always buy a better dog than I could breed myself. All of my birddogs are spayed or neutered. There are so many good breeders out there that are really focused on improving the breed - and they study pedigrees and make a full time job of campaigning and testing their dogs to see that the best breeds to the best. I'll just buy a pup from one of them instead of worrying about the litter and trying to find 8 or more families that I approve of to raise one of my puppies.

If you've tested the dog in one or more venues (field trials, hunt tests, NSTRA, NAVHDA, etc.) and been successful, and the dog is an excellent example of the breed - then I'd think about whether I wanted to breed the dog or not. All those things would go through my head - and before breeding, the dog would need to be free of any health issues (eyes, elbows, hips, etc.) of course.

That's my personal opinion.

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Re: Trying to decide

Post by rinker » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:42 am

I haven't kept track but I think that I have owned one hundred or more hunting dogs over my life time. Most were pointers, but there were a few labs, hounds, or beagles. This doesn't make me an expert on any thing, but I do have a little experience with dogs to draw on. I have never owned a spayed or neutered dog. I have also never had an accidental/unplanned breeding. Pay attention to the female and when you see her coming in to heat keep her isolated from intact male dogs for three weeks or so, and pay close attention for a week or ten days after that. I have no problem with someone spaying or neutering their dogs, and it may very well be the right thing for you. I do not, however, think that it is the only way, as some will have you believe.

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Doc E
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Re: Trying to decide

Post by Doc E » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:09 am

A study from UC Davis

News Release Click here : http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_det ... o?id=10498

Abstract of the actual article Click here : http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... ne.0055937



.

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AzDoggin
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Re: Trying to decide

Post by AzDoggin » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:29 pm

Thanks for posting that article, Doc. Good to see some balance...

Not mentioned is that there are other forms of eliminating the dogs ability to reproduce without depriving the dog of critical glands in their body. Vasectomy/tubal ligation or hysterectomy are no more complicated really.

Doc - maybe you can confirm this - apparently vasectomy/tubal ligation are not emphasized/taught in vet schools?

My next dog will be keeping his boys...

As for the female dogs - there was a vet (Dr. Becker) who said "if my female dog in heat is getting humped on the other end of a six foot leash, I'd guess I would know about it!"

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Re: Trying to decide

Post by birddogger » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:57 pm

rinker wrote:I haven't kept track but I think that I have owned one hundred or more hunting dogs over my life time. Most were pointers, but there were a few labs, hounds, or beagles. This doesn't make me an expert on any thing, but I do have a little experience with dogs to draw on. I have never owned a spayed or neutered dog. I have also never had an accidental/unplanned breeding. Pay attention to the female and when you see her coming in to heat keep her isolated from intact male dogs for three weeks or so, and pay close attention for a week or ten days after that. I have no problem with someone spaying or neutering their dogs, and it may very well be the right thing for you. I do not, however, think that it is the only way, as some will have you believe.
Good post! I agree.

Charlie

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WillieELk78GSP
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Re: Trying to decide

Post by WillieELk78GSP » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:31 pm

Thanks all I have taken in all the info you have given, great artical btw. I have decided to get my dog fixed, I still don't know when I should do it, dog is 11 months old so maybe soon I think.

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Re: Trying to decide

Post by birddogger » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:36 pm

I would wait another year and possibly two if I were you.

Charlie

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Re: Trying to decide

Post by Meller » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:19 am

birddogger wrote:I would wait another year and possibly two if I were you.

Charlie
+1

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Re: Trying to decide

Post by cjhills » Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:24 am

Every heat cycle she goes through increases the chance of breast cancer. Cj

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Re: Trying to decide

Post by campgsp » Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:35 am

cjhills wrote:Every heat cycle she goes through increases the chance of breast cancer. Cj
And every hunt you take her on increases her chance of getting hurt or even killed. So guess dont take her hunting either. The odds of cancer really really slim. I've never cut anything off or from in my dogs and have never not once had any problems arise from it. I have seen dogs get obese from being spayed. Maybe thays the problem.

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Re: Trying to decide

Post by AzDoggin » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:51 am

campgsp wrote:
cjhills wrote:Every heat cycle she goes through increases the chance of breast cancer. Cj
And every hunt you take her on increases her chance of getting hurt or even killed. So guess dont take her hunting either. The odds of cancer really really slim. I've never cut anything off or from in my dogs and have never not once had any problems arise from it. I have seen dogs get obese from being spayed. Maybe thays the problem.
Yep. CJ - did you read that article Doc posted? While it is true this study was with Golden Retrievers only, the results definitely raise some questions about default neutering...Here's an excerpt....
The study revealed that, for all five diseases analyzed, the disease rates were significantly higher in both males and females that were neutered either early or late compared with intact (non-neutered) dogs.

Specifically, early neutering was associated with an increase in the occurrence of hip dysplasia, cranial cruciate ligament tear and lymphosarcoma in males and of cranial cruciate ligament tear in females. Late neutering was associated with the subsequent occurrence of mast cell tumors and hemangiosarcoma in females.

In most areas, the findings of this study were consistent with earlier studies, suggesting similar increases in disease risks. The new study, however, was the first to specifically report an increased risk of late neutering for mast cell tumors and hemangiosarcoma.

Furthermore, the new study showed a surprising 100 percent increase, or doubling, of the incidence of hip dysplasia among early-neutered males. Earlier studies had reported a 17 percent increase among all neutered dogs compared to all non-neutered dogs, indicating the importance of the new study in making gender and age-of-neutering comparisons
.

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Re: Trying to decide

Post by cjhills » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:02 pm

YES, I read the report. interesting, but not really enough dogs to really read a lot into it . Goldens seem to be prone to some of these issues.
And the report says it does not consider the fact that the dogs may have been allowed to get overweight. Dogs don't gain weight because of spaying or neutering.
We have had many spayed and neutered dogs and have sold many pups which have been spayed or neutered we have had no health issues from this. They all seemed to live to about the same age. We have however lost several dogs from early life problems that were not altered. Pyometra is pretty much fatal and 20 % of unbred females get it.
My vet sees more cases of Pyometra and breast cancer than any other disease in female dogs both of these are pretty much eliminated by early spaying. So, it is a trade off make your choice with that in mind. They see the dogs with health problems and they believe in spaying. Of course they have a financial interest, but they make more treating unspayed dogs. I'm not for or against just knowing both sides
As for the health risks of hunting if that is what you bought the dog for that is a chance you take. You don't have to take that chance in a dog you are not breeding Cj

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Re: Trying to decide

Post by MHWH » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:30 pm

In my opinion a female should have a couple of liters to be as healthy as
possible. I have read about the problems of spaying, especially if done before
two years of age. There also seems to be more problems if females are left intact
and yet are never bred.

Male dogs do best if left unaltered. If you want to neuter a male it also is best to
do so after two years of age. IMHO

All that being said I prefer males, unaltered. I don't have near the experience of the
poster above who related his experience with about 100 bird dogs. But I have had no
problem with any male bird dogs that were left intact. I don't allow the humping thing
to get started. They do pee on things when left to run, marking, but completely house
trained, never a worry about peeing in the house.

I just can not understand any logic wherein folks try to convince themselves or others
that surgically altering a dog is going to cause it to be healthier. It seems they are saying
by removing parts God put there, that are an important part of the dogs physiology, the
dog will be healthier. It just makes no sense. Sure a neutered male will have less chance of
testicular cancer, of course. But we can wipe out brain cancer in dogs also, by removing their
brains but nobody wants to go there.

Mike

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Re: Trying to decide

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:30 pm

I have had one female out of many dogs that developed breast cancer and she was a female who went through a false pregnancy every heat cycle. Died when 9 years old. I never did alter any of the dogs though and everything was fine.

Dogs do not get fat unless they consume more calories than they use and many do use less when altered. Same with males. That is why practically every animal used for food is altered young.

Ezzy

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Re: Trying to decide

Post by AzDoggin » Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:33 pm

MHWH wrote:I just can not understand any logic wherein folks try to convince themselves or others
that surgically altering a dog is going to cause it to be healthier. It seems they are saying
by removing parts God put there, that are an important part of the dogs physiology, the
dog will be healthier. It just makes no sense. Sure a neutered male will have less chance of
testicular cancer, of course. But we can wipe out brain cancer in dogs also, by removing their
brains but nobody wants to go there.

Mike
Mike, all very well said. It's disconcerting to me that the animal industry, from vets to rescue centers to HSUS, continue to stand behind the "whack them off" method when there is increasing data coming available that shows it's not the healthiest choice. Even if you want to control reproduction and limit numbers going to rescue - necessary in some areas - there are procedures that keep the dog's endocrine system intact that are less costly and less intrusive than gonadectomies.

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