Gun Dog Forum

The boobs running NY think this is important right now, as they forget all the people who have lost their homes from super storm sandy and the damage done to business and private and public property these dopes we elect here worry about gun control and dog tails and the size of your soda. It gets harder and harder to live here.
mm


http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/A3428-2013

The way that I read this legislation is that ANY dog born after the date whether it was born in the state or not that comes into NY with a docked tail is subject to up to a $5000 fine. That is ridiculous! It will for sure mess up people coming to NY for any type of testing with versatile dogs that have their tail docked in PA or NJ or a New England state. I've been told there are some good testing grounds in NY too.

I grew up in S. Conn. and this is the idiotic thinking that made me pick a natural resources curriculum in a school that was 2500 miles away. That was 43 years ago and I've never had any interest in moving back.

. Westminster Dog Show, Madison Square Garden. Thats still in NYS, isn't it. I don't know if that will be able to stay in New York,then. Welcome to the micromanaged nanny state, where control of the people is all important and the individual is not. Unless he's rich.

And you guys think Big Brother is on your side? Don

Elections. Have. Consequences.

That's the nice thing about my shorthairs, they are all born with short tails. I have been breeding for that for years. No dew claws either. I have been using a Selective Breeding program at my kennel.

The head of the agriculture committee is William Magee, his phone is 315-361-4125 and the online email for him is http://assembly.state.ny.us/mem/William-Magee/contact/ its a form, you fill it out.

I emailed him, letting him know that alhthough I don't reside in NY, I travel to and through New York many times every year, spending money on hotels, food, fuel and incidentals in his state. Supporting kennel clubs in NY with entries, and that, should this bill pass, I will no longer be able to stimulate the NY economy in such a manner, and that because this bill effects dozens of breeds, many others would not be able to spend their money in the state of NY any longer.

Do you realize that, should this bill pass, NY effectively cuts off all owners of docked breeds in MA, RI, CT, ME, VT & NH from the rest of the country...without travel through Canada and vice versa?

I went on the NYS Assembly site and looked up the sponsers of this bill and big suprise they are all from NYC, Brooklyn , the Bronx and one from Scarsdale. This is the problem in NY the city people rule everyone else. Thats how we got the gun control. I have contacted all of the sponsers and told them what I think and I dont expect any replies. I contacted my own guy and the people in my dog club on Long Island are doing the same. It burns me that we have people still without houses , heat and hot water from Sandy and the goverment is busy with this.
mm

I wonder how many of those politicians are AR supporters?

"FOR REASONS OTHER THAN TO PROTECT THE LIFE OR HEALTH OF THE DOG AS DEEMED NECESSARY BY A DULY LICENSED VETERINARIAN." Sounds like a pretty easy loophole to work within, at least. Shouldn't be hard to find a vet that'll vouch for the likelihood of tail trauma for a gundog.

Wow things must be going so well in NY that the politicians have nothing better to go after?

There is a 2nd bill that would make it illegal to crate dog between the hours of 7 p.m. and 6 a.m. in NY also....which would mean you couldn't travel with a dog safely crated between those hours either.

mm, we have the same problem in Illinois. Chicago makes the decisions for the whole state due to the population. The shape Chicago is in and is putting the rest of the state in proves that system is broken. Unfortunately due to all the corruption in politics I don't think it will ever change.
Illinois is in VERY bad shape financially now (I have been wondering what happens when it goes bankrupt?) and they are more focused more on other things than fixing our financial problems.

My condolences to those of you that have to reside in NY.



No thanks

Looks like it puts the kabosh on dog shows and most types of performance events including obedience trials, earth dog, herding, rally, agility, etc.

How many breed clubs will be affected, I wonder, not only sporting breeds? And AKC...its HQ is in NYC. They going to be fined for sponsoring events?

Karen, really? It is illegal to crate a dog from 7pm to 6 am?
The travel thing is a very good point. But also if you leave for work before
6am, get back home after 7pm, or work second or third shift you
would be illegal? These people are just plain stupid, and you can't fix stupid.

Illinois has or had, I am not sure, a law that said you must have your gun
cased in a car and the ammo in a separate compartment of the car. We all assumed by
this that they meant like the gun in the trunk and ammo in the back seat.
Problem is look at at any parking lot. Vans and SUVs make up well over 50%
of the vehicles. There is no separate compartment. (The glove box don't count
and is not big enough to hold much anyway.)

Big city people are arrogant and stupid in general, a dangerous combination. In case you
don't know Chicago controls Illinois politically.

JMHO

Mike

They're TRYING Mike. They haven't succeeded yet on the anti-crate law in NY, but the state of PA is currently trying to push through an anti-tether law also (coming from Philly & Pittsburgh I'm sure).

Part of me things all this gun control and Animals Rights legislation is being done now in an effort to take our eyes off a bigger ball that we're all going to pay dearly for in the future. The feds do this over and over again, and the states are learning from them. Lets talk about abortion law and gun laws while congress approves a multi-million dollar "aid package" for syrian rebels or Egypt. How much you wanna bet something else is in the works and this is a smoke screen to it.

These laws happen because the AR people are organized and put a lot of effort into furthering their causes.

And the next time someone asked why they should register their dogs with AKC, or why AKC gets a per-dog fee from trials & shows, that should be our answer. The animal rights activists are VERY organized and put lots of time and money into their cause. AKC does the same for us. They DO employ people who help protect us from the radicals....and that costs $$.

Karen wrote:And the next time someone asked why they should register their dogs with AKC, or why AKC gets a per-dog fee from trials & shows, that should be our answer. The animal rights activists are VERY organized and put lots of time and money into their cause. AKC does the same for us. They DO employ people who help protect us from the radicals....and that costs $$.

Indeed. Thank you for spreading the word, also.

Thats a great point about the AKC Karen. I would be in favor of them or some organaztion becoming more like the NRA when it comes to fighting this political stuff.
mm

mm wrote:Thats a great point about the AKC Karen. I would be in favor of them or some organaztion becoming more like the NRA when it comes to fighting this political stuff.
mm

The AKC is very active on every level. Check the legislative alerts on their home page.

The best time to fight this proposed new law is right now .....and don't wait to see if "someone else" will do the fighting for you. We have a complete tail docking ban here in Scotland yet pups can still be docked in England, Ireland and Wales. Once such a law is on the books it is almost impossible to have it removed again as we have discovered.

We try to get around this stupid law by sending our in whelp bitches to the parts of G.B. where they can still be legally docked to have their pups, have them docked and then dam and pups are brought home again and can be legally sold. It is a crazy situation and some breeders of good gundogs in Scotland have ceased to breed rather than produce pups that will be hard to sell with full length tails.

Bill T.

Trekmoor wrote:The best time to fight this proposed new law is right now .....and don't wait to see if "someone else" will do the fighting for you. We have a complete tail docking ban here in Scotland yet pups can still be docked in England, Ireland and Wales. Once such a law is on the books it is almost impossible to have it removed again as we have discovered.

We try to get around this stupid law by sending our in whelp bitches to the parts of G.B. where they can still be legally docked to have their pups, have them docked and then dam and pups are brought home again and can be legally sold. It is a crazy situation and some breeders of good gundogs in Scotland have ceased to breed rather than produce pups that will be hard to sell with full length tails.

Bill T.

Perhaps you should only breed bitches who are genetically predisposed to nip their pups' tails off at birth.

Wyndancer wrote:Elections. Have. Consequences.

Amen!!!

Charlie

MHWH, ammunition does not have to be kept seperate from the firearm in Illinois. Go to the ISP web site and click on the FAQ link. For some reason that has always been the common assumption but it is a myth. A lot of police officers are not even aware of it.

Charlie

birddogger wrote:MHWH, ammunition does not have to be kept seperate from the firearm in Illinois. Go to the ISP web site and click on the FAQ link. For some reason that has always been the common assumption but it is a myth. A lot of police officers are not even aware of it.

Charlie

Right on!

Ezzy

Birddogger, I thought it was that way at one point. I remember the judge at our gun club talking about it.
He was retired, maybe he didn't look into it all that close.

In any case, Illinois is a mess on many levels.

Mike

While I agree with tail docking not being at the top of NYS' priority list, and dont even get me started on how stupid I think a lot of the laws are in that state, I've never found the point in docking. I know exactly what it is for but does it really hamper the dogs performance that much? I mean really? My GSP pup has a full length tail and I wont get it docked, he will perform just fine with a full length tail.

That said, I dont think it should be illegal, I just never found the point of it.....


Kind of like AR's, I've owned them along with a bunch of other guns, and carried an M4 in the Military. Do I see the point in a civilian owning one? Not really, they are just fancy range toys people show off, but do I think they should be illegal? No.

MHWH wrote:Birddogger, I thought it was that way at one point. I remember the judge at our gun club talking about it.
He was retired, maybe he didn't look into it all that close.

In any case, Illinois is a mess on many levels.

Mike

I hear ya Mike and agree with you, I just wanted to put the correct info about the ammo out there. The fact that the judge at your hunt club telling you that was simply wrong. They are telling the young people that at the hunter safety classes too.

Charlie

Derrick wrote:While I agree with tail docking not being at the top of NYS' priority list, and dont even get me started on how stupid I think a lot of the laws are in that state, I've never found the point in docking. I know exactly what it is for but does it really hamper the dogs performance that much? I mean really? My GSP pup has a full length tail and I wont get it docked, he will perform just fine with a full length tail.

That said, I dont think it should be illegal, I just never found the point of it.....


Kind of like AR's, I've owned them along with a bunch of other guns, and carried an M4 in the Military. Do I see the point in a civilian owning one? Not really, they are just fancy range toys people show off, but do I think they should be illegal? No.

A lot of breeds are docked. Sadly, hunters are usually not very vocal about opposing the anti-docking legislation.

BTW, I apologize for getting off topic.

Charlie

Derrick wrote:While I agree with tail docking not being at the top of NYS' priority list, and dont even get me started on how stupid I think a lot of the laws are in that state, I've never found the point in docking. I know exactly what it is for but does it really hamper the dogs performance that much? I mean really? My GSP pup has a full length tail and I wont get it docked, he will perform just fine with a full length tail.

That said, I dont think it should be illegal, I just never found the point of it.....


Kind of like AR's, I've owned them along with a bunch of other guns, and carried an M4 in the Military. Do I see the point in a civilian owning one? Not really, they are just fancy range toys people show off, but do I think they should be illegal? No.

Google "bloody setter tail" images and you'll find some support for docking - sorry for the graphic nature - but this happens. I'm one who thinks a tail is an important part of the dog, but would hate to see this happen to one of mine very often.



"limber tail" is another injury of dogs who really get after whipping the tail around - painful for the dog, and disables them for awhile: http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues ... 685-1.html

I doubt I'd have a dogs amputated specifically to avoid one of these, but I can certainly see how some hunting breeds evolved to be dock tails...I guess that's the point

Cajun Casey wrote:These laws happen because the AR people are organized and put a lot of effort into furthering their causes.

Just to set you straight Derrick this is not a reference to the rifle. It is refering to Animal Rights Activists(terrorists).

Az
That picture should be on a can on the counter of every 7-11 in the USA collecting money for poor dogs from bad areas who need their tail docked but cant afford it. It should also say how an opressive goverment who out laws pot and has a war against woman is now starting a war against dogs by taking away a dogs right to choose. Its a dogs health issue. I would put money in that can.
mm

I don't think that there has ever been a day that I have run my beagles and not have them come home without bloody tails.

Sorry, I didnt realize you were referring to to Animal rights as the AR. I was referring to the AR legislation as an example of, "It may not be what I want, but it doesnt mean it should be illegal" There is a lot of things that should be up to human discretion, and docking along with AR's should be. But leave it to a few morons that abuse anything in order to ruin it for everyone. I know a lot of breeds have their tails docked.

Also that tail injury is horrific, I would hate to see my boy have that happen to him. I completely agree that docking has a purpose but also like someone mentioned, it also serves as an important part of the dog.

Here's a post on GDF from 2009 - Pennsylvania tried to pass a similar bill it appears: viewtopic.php?f=95&t=18858&p=171700&hil ... ry#p171700

Derrick wrote:Sorry, I didnt realize you were referring to to Animal rights as the AR. I was referring to the AR legislation as an example of, "It may not be what I want, but it doesnt mean it should be illegal" There is a lot of things that should be up to human discretion, and docking along with AR's should be. But leave it to a few morons that abuse anything in order to ruin it for everyone. I know a lot of breeds have their tails docked.

Also that tail injury is horrific, I would hate to see my boy have that happen to him. I completely agree that docking has a purpose but also like someone mentioned, it also serves as an important part of the dog.

Just for the record, I understood we were using the same initials for two totally different things.......maybe some people get confused by that?

PRNY

Peoples Republic of New York