puppy/started dog prices

[larue]

I have had an interesting time selling pups over the years,and it would appear that price is an issue at times.I sold pups out of my last litter for 600,at 8 weeks of age.At that time all were pointing the wing,and 2 were pointing live quail very strong.
I recently had some interest in the last remaining female,she is 9 months old,pointing her birds,hunting very hard,is house trained,and has been shot over and has retrieved(poorly but has done it).
She is up to date on all her puppy shots including rabies.She has not been swimming yet,as she was born in august and it was Oct before we tried.
I have been asking 1000 for her,and that seems to be the point were people back off,yet in my mind she has seen 30 or more birds,both quail and pheasants,which if you average 5 per is 150,her shots were another 250 so I am at the 1000.
This does not take into account the time spent house training or the time spent working her on birds,or the gas ect.
My question is this,is 1000 too much for a pup like this?

[Hattrick]

I don't think it is to much. But 30 birds isn't a lot for a puppy 9 months old which isn't enough to call her a started bird dog in my opinion. I think it boils down to pedigree?

[Elkhunter]

I sometimes wonder about puppy/started dog prices also, on this board we see constant threads about puppies/young dogs ripping birds, running away, wont retrieve etc. So you would think that someone that wants a good hunting dog would gladly spend an extra $500 or so dollars to get a dog that at least is showing some natural ability.

A young dog that has proven it could find and point wild birds IMO is usually a little easier to move.

[phermes1]

I don't think it is to much. But 30 birds isn't a lot for a puppy 9 months old which isn't enough to call her a started bird dog in my opinion. I think it boils down to pedigree?

I tend to agree. 9 months old and having chased 30 birds and retrieved a few really isn't started. Personally, I'd rather get a young pup and do all of that myself. I'd consider a 9 month old only if the breeding was right and I didn't feel like waiting around for another to come along.

[larue]

hat,,I use birds to develop desire,to enhance point.She is hunting very hard,is pointing her birds hard.I do not count birds to decide how far the dog is along,but what she is doing.
As far as pedigree,with a dog at her age you can see what you have,a pedigree never pointed a bird.
I am starting yard work with her this week,with the intention of starting steadiness work soon,her bird drive is high,in fact if I just let her find more birds,it will become harder.
I plan to just keep her and add her to my trial string and see how it works,a true gundog is sometimes wanted in trials.
As far as pedigree goes,she is out of 6 or 7 gens of navhda tested dogs.
here is a clip of her this fall,I would call her a started dog.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wd-zvF6jIE

[Gordon Guy]

No, a $1000.00 is not unreasonable. You never get out ($ wise) what you put into one (Passion, $ and Time).
You didn't say what breed it is....But if there's one in every backyard, imo you have an uphill battle. Because people will think they can do better with a 7 week old puppy that's half the price. The "started" dog buyers are a diiferent market than puppy buyers. Local newspaper ads will not tap that market segment.

[deseeker]

I don't think you are over priced on the pup, but it is a long way to hunting season. I think it is easier to sell started dogs when it gets closer to hunting season and people are thinking about hunting. Price also depends on location in the US---dogs are priced way higher on either coast than they are in the middle part of the country(if you have to ship it, it adds another $300 to the price of the dog). Are the parents OFAd? If they aren't that might make a future buyer nervous about spending the money on the dog. Pedigree might be super important for someone looking for a possible bitch for breeding down the road. There are a ton of things that can affect what people will pay for a started dog. I've seen some dogs that have excellent pedigrees, with a lot of training in them , go for what I consider a very under valued price to get them sold on this forum--- I'd probably would of bought a couple of those dogs if I were into other breeds. I've seen very good prices on started shorthairs, pointers, and setters on this forum and it seems like people just don't want to spend any money. (IMO)

[uplandnut]

I personally like to buy started dogs. I have found that for me that situation works out the best, due to work schedule and not having enough time to train. From my perspective, you will have a tough time selling your pup for $1000, sorry. I can go on to a number of websites and find started/finished dogs for not a whole lot more than you are asking. Another way of looking at it for me is that I'm not going to spend $1000 on a dog that is not steady to wing and shot if I have the option to buy one that is for $1500-$2000, reason being is that by the time I pay another trainer to steady the dog up I would have more than that into a dog I paid $1000. Sorry for my bluntness but I thought it might be good to have an opinion from someone who buys started dogs, not saying everyone's opinion is the same. For what it's worth I got one started dog for free from someone who needed room in there kenel, she was great on pheasants, and my latest one cost me $400, and is a grouse phenom in the woods. Just my .02

[RoostersMom]

The dog is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. That's it in a nutshell. You're likely priced too high for the market *right now*. But who says that's too much? Only the buyers. Personally, I wouldn't care what I had in the dog or what the dog was "worth." I would care that it went to the right home - that's why I wouldn't be much of a breeder - I'd be too worried about the home it ended up in and not enough about the bottom line. I've put more than $500 into rescues that I've rehomed for the shelters' adoption fee (of which I get nothing) - it doesn't seem to matter to folks what you've put into the animal - just what they're willing to pay. Just like selling a house - doesn't matter what you owe on the darn thing - it's going to bring what the market says it should.

[Hattrick]

Larue
I wasn't bashing by any means. Its a huge gray area with what a started dog is. A lot buyers buy for breeding that are pedigree junkies, henz more marketable to move. I think ur price is ok I just don't think its what I call a started dog. Reason saying naturally a dog should point, at 9 months it should be standing flushs like statue with shots fired with a good field search if its mark as started a dog, next step being broke to fall which is a finished dog. Its a lot more to being started than pointing. I'm sure you could sell her. Good luck

[tommyboy72]

I have had an interesting time selling pups over the years,and it would appear that price is an issue at times.I sold pups out of my last litter for 600,at 8 weeks of age.At that time all were pointing the wing,and 2 were pointing live quail very strong.
I recently had some interest in the last remaining female,she is 9 months old,pointing her birds,hunting very hard,is house trained,and has been shot over and has retrieved(poorly but has done it).
She is up to date on all her puppy shots including rabies.She has not been swimming yet,as she was born in august and it was Oct before we tried.
I have been asking 1000 for her,and that seems to be the point were people back off,yet in my mind she has seen 30 or more birds,both quail and pheasants,which if you average 5 per is 150,her shots were another 250 so I am at the 1000.
This does not take into account the time spent house training or the time spent working her on birds,or the gas ect.
My question is this,is 1000 too much for a pup like this?

I think her age probably has something to do with it. If she were a year and a half to 2 years old someone would probably jump on it. Just some people are that way.

In my personal opinion, and that is what you are asking for here, she is a bit overpriced. I am usually hunting wild birds over a 9 month old pup. The fact that she has never seen wild birds is probably another downside. I understand completely what you have tied up in released birds. $250 for shots for a 9 month old pup sounds way overpriced. Not to mention the fact that you said she is retreiving poorly. Someone who is not experienced is going to have to sink another $1500-$2000 into her to have her force broke and trained. Someone who is experienced is basically getting leftovers that someone else has already picked through and a pup that they are unsure of the training background on who is basically doing what, by the way your post reads, most 6 month old pups are doing which means the buyer has lost 3 months of training with the pup and still paying $1000 for her. In my experience people do not account for or care what your or my or anyone else's incurred costs are when buying a dog. They just want what they consider a more than fair price. Incurred costs like gas, your time, equipment costs, wear and tear on your vehicle and equipment, etc. are just part of selling dogs. This is only my opinion and in no way do I intend to insult or upset you. I am just trying to give you perhaps the point of view of a potential puppy buyer. Good luck selling your pup.

[mask]

Larue, If this gyp is well bred and I believe she is, you do not have her overpriced.

[campgsp]

Fair price for a 9 month old pup. Given the time and expenses. Some people don't realize that the longer you have the dog the more training or will get and the higher the price goes. On average puppies go from $500-$1000. So I don't see why someone with any common dog knowledge would back out on a $1000 9 month old. Obviously the pedigree or dog in general were not the problem. They called showed up and tried to stiff ya on the price.
Youll move the dog. Don't worry about it.

I helped a buyer of one of my pups move the pup because of financial problems at Little over a year old. They took a lose because they were in a hurry. Take your time someone will come along.

[whatsnext]

1000 dollars for a 9 month old pup as you described her is a fair price, people need to really think about how much time has been put into that pup to get her where she is not just "sticker shock".I think sometimes people also believe that since the pup is a little older that they will not bond like a 10 week old pup which is not the case.

[ACooper]

Lots of people want a finished dog for $200 or free, because you know when they were kids you could get a dog for $25...

[cjhills]

It really makes very little difference whether you call the pup started or not. A pup with that good of a start is definitely worth the money, if it has no conformation problems. People buy a puppy and spend $1200 to $2000 dollars on vet work, training, birds and food to get it where yours is
at, plus the hassle of house breaking. If you have the time, a good reputation and good advertising she will sell, at least in my part of the country.
Breeders are too quick to reduce the price on puppies they don't sell at 8 weeks. This Makes it tough to get a fair price and seems unfair to the buyers who paid the full price.
If we get overstocked on dogs that we kept or bought and need to reduce the numbers, I sell them to trainer friends for training and resale, not to the general public. Good Luck Cj

[CDN_Cocker]

I don't think it is to much. But 30 birds isn't a lot for a puppy 9 months old which isn't enough to call her a started bird dog in my opinion. I think it boils down to pedigree?

I think "started" is a large grey area. It could have seen a bird, or hunted hundreds. Regardless, 1000 is a very fair price. I can't believe the prices your dogs south of the border go for. I got my guy for 650. Up here, mutts sell for more than that! It was definitely worth the 8 hour drive to Ohio. Generally here, a purebred dog (of any breed) you're looking at $1000+

[Carolina Gundogs]

Larue, I believe it could be frustrating to try and sell a nice started pup. I have noticed the wide price ranges and the wide range of acceptance (or nonacceptance) to started dogs. I believe the first impression many people get on a started dog is that the pup is being sold at this stage because the owner has determined the pup doesn't meet his criteria (being culled). I do not at all believe this Is the case with your pup and only giving my opinion on how the average person thinks If they do not know you personally. I also believe people are buying "hope" when they buy a small puppy. I had one of the top GSP field trial pros tell me once that in their opinion a puppy lost value after 12 weeks of age and did not gain any value to the open market until they were a broke dog.

However, I know of kennels that sell started dogs at very high prices. I recently saw where a kennel sold 5 to 6 started pups that you could take hunting for$3000+ each.
In trying to understand what enabled this kennel to do this, I determined it was their well known name, their popular bloodline of hunting dogs, their list of references, their informative web site and the written policy of satisfaction guaranteed. So, I suppose the references, web site and guarantee carries a great amount of pull.

I remember watching the video of your pup when you first listed it and thought what a nice pup!

[rinker]

I find that the price of a dog has every thing to do with how well known the seller is. Several years ago I agreed to breed my English Setter female to a very well known sire. The deal was that the owner of the sire and I would split the litter. This was fine with me, I was going to keep one or two and hopefully sell a couple to recover my costs. We had eight puppies, and when they were old enough I took them over to the other guys kennel. He had four buyers waiting there to buy his four puppies for $500, each. I tried for about three months to sell two of my puppies and I ended up selling one for $125. The guy that bought this one called me about a week later and told me he also wanted the other one, and I ended up selling it to him for $75.

[larue]

I really am not trying to sell the pup,I just have had some interest in her,and when we talk price it seems to be an issue.I once sold a pup to a pro,it was a max/chelsea pup.He used the pup as a guide dog,then sold the pup for 3500 I was told.
Gwen(pups name) ran on sunday with my eva bitch,who runs a shooting dog/all age race.Gwen ran with her the entire time,so she is competitive.
I just do not understand people when you look at what it costs to bring a pup along,how they can expect to not pay more for a pup who has had work done.
Gwen will run puppy/derby this spring,maybe even go run a navhda n/a test for the fun of it.
As far as wild birds,we will go hunting this fall,I know she will hunt hard,and learn to handle them.I have watched her sire,dam,grand sire and grand dam,great grand sire and great grand dam learn to handle wild birds,she will follow them out on the grasslands learning to find and handle chickens.

[AZ Brittany Guy]

It is all what the market dictates. If I have a young dog that has been started but is not selling, I will sometimes give them to a loyal past customer that has taken good care of the pups I have sold to them.

[Vman]

In my opinion $1000 is cheap for this pup. Granted, I am familiar with the lines and know Larue. But people are funny, I have listed several dogs on this forum for sale,[Pointers} the dogs had no issues, hunted hard looked great on their birds and where house trained. A couple of them I had to give away and the last one I got $300 for her. If a person had a $1000 budget for a GSP they could buy a puppy at 8 weeks for $600. Take it to the vet and get it checked out and perhaps give the second round of puppy shots. That will be around$150. Then at 5 months it will get the Rabies vaccination and with the office call that will be around $70. We are now at $820 and have yet too charge a sack of feed. PP in my area is $40 per bag. The pup has eaten lets say 4 bags of feed, that is $160. We are now up too $980. Now we can start training and buying birds. In this case lets say he has used 30 quail at $5/ea. that is another $150 and this does not include finding the birds and the gas to go get them and the pen too hold them. He has crate trained the dog in the house, he has exposed this pup too numerous fields and horses, and gunfire and kills. Taught the dog manners and general obedience. The pup has demonstrated good manners on game. I believe this exposure is worth more, but I will put a low price of $300. I say this is low because of who did the training. LaRue is an experienced GSP guy, everything was done correctly and he didn`t create issues that need to be fixed, I can`t put a price on this but is extremely important. Now we are at $1430. I did not include the chewed leg on the coffee table, the new pair of your wifes shoes that got chewed up. The time cleaning up accidents. Then you hope that the dog turns out too be what you want, and doesn`t have any health issues.

Or, you can go buy a pup like this for $1000. You can take the pup out in the field and watch it run. hunt, point, and retrieve, even if it is sloppy{the retrieve}. Call the dog and it comes, command kennel and it goes in. Doesn`t bark at night and keep you awake and crap in its crate. You can see how big the pup is going to be and at that time you can make an educated decision on whether this is the type of pup you want. You can ask yourself is this what I am looking for? What you see is pretty much what you get, were the other pup you can only hope that you get what this dog does. Isn`t that worth something?

I think that people are too wary, and when they see a started dog, right away they think the the pup is a dud and the owner wants to get rid of it. I think there is a big difference between buying from an experienced dog person and the guy down the street. The sellers character certainly plays a part, and knowing Dennis for at least 15 yrs. I can say he is a straight up guy and would not lie or cheat anyone. He has many satisfied customers and many references if needed.
Personally I think the pup should be priced at $1500 minimum. Just my opinion.

[DonF]

Larue, If this gyp is well bred and I believe she is, you do not have her overpriced.

Even if he can't sell her? I'd think she probably is. The question is not how much to sell her for but how much more money and time will you spend before you can get rid of her. So if your alright with just keeping her, keep it at $1000 but if you want her gone, go for less. I had a pup one time I couldn't sell, called him Lefty. The left side of hie face was liver and the right side was white. But that isn't where the name came from, he was a left over. Glad I couldn't sell him as he turned into one of my best ever dog's! On the other hand I had about a two year old pointer that was started and little more. I let him go for $200 and he got a good home. Saw the guy several time's after that and he loved that dog, good enough!

[ezzy333]

I really am not trying to sell the pup,I just have had some interest in her,and when we talk price it seems to be an issue.I once sold a pup to a pro,it was a max/chelsea pup.He used the pup as a guide dog,then sold the pup for 3500 I was told.
Gwen(pups name) ran on sunday with my eva bitch,who runs a shooting dog/all age race.Gwen ran with her the entire time,so she is competitive.
I just do not understand people when you look at what it costs to bring a pup along,how they can expect to not pay more for a pup who has had work done.
Gwen will run puppy/derby this spring,maybe even go run a navhda n/a test for the fun of it.
As far as wild birds,we will go hunting this fall,I know she will hunt hard,and learn to handle them.I have watched her sire,dam,grand sire and grand dam,great grand sire and great grand dam learn to handle wild birds,she will follow them out on the grasslands learning to find and handle chickens.

I think many trialers judge a dogs value by the work and time they have invested. Most people who buy a dog buy it for the enjoyment of developing a pup into a great pet and some also like to be part of the training to be a nice hunting dog. Training is part of the whole experience and not all work. In other words you are selling a tool that might win a trial and they are buying a little bundle of joy that might make a wonderful pet that will hunt.

Ezzy

[markj]

she is 9 months old

makes it look like a leftover dog. Maybe drop the age. or wait till she is 1.5 or so. Many folks just dont have a lot of cash these days it seems. I bet she is one fine dog but some just wont see it.

[Winchey]

I really am not trying to sell the pup,I just have had some interest in her,and when we talk price it seems to be an issue.I once sold a pup to a pro,it was a max/chelsea pup.He used the pup as a guide dog,then sold the pup for 3500 I was told.
Gwen(pups name) ran on sunday with my eva bitch,who runs a shooting dog/all age race.Gwen ran with her the entire time,so she is competitive.
I just do not understand people when you look at what it costs to bring a pup along,how they can expect to not pay more for a pup who has had work done.
Gwen will run puppy/derby this spring,maybe even go run a navhda n/a test for the fun of it.
As far as wild birds,we will go hunting this fall,I know she will hunt hard,and learn to handle them.I have watched her sire,dam,grand sire and grand dam,great grand sire and great grand dam learn to handle wild birds,she will follow them out on the grasslands learning to find and handle chickens.

I think many trailers judge a dogs value by the work and time they have invested. Most people who buy a dog buy it for the enjoyment of developing a pup into a great pet and some also like to be part of the training to be a nice hunting dog. Training is part of the whole experience and not all work. In other words you are selling a tool that might win a trial and they are buying a little bundle of joy that might make a wonderful pet that will hunt.

Ezzy

I would sure hope they value it on how good the dog is. I would hate to pay top dollar for a finished dog that sucks.

I would also hate to pay extra because a dog was particularly hard to train or slow and that caused the trainer to put more time into it, or if the trainer wasn't a good trainer and it took him longer than a good one.

[orbirdhunter]

Dog looked pretty nice in the little video.....Personall i think that the started dog market has to be a tough market as a seller....
In my mind it is completely a buyers market, especially in the popular breeds.
$1000 doesn't sound too unreasonable to me, but its still a tough sell. If the person was just looking for a nice hunting dog then patience would probably land him a dog of similiar stature for less, possibly considerably less.
9 months feels like kinda a odd age to me also....Having said that the markings/coloring on the dog looked really cool from the video clip....liked the tail set etc, dog stood for quite a while....
I think alot of it is how you market the dogs also......
For me personally i would have a hard time buying a started dog without seeing it in action first, and that obviously cuts down on the number of potential clients. I would buy a puppy on "hope" sight unseen, but i want something tangible from a 9 month old.
I am friends and train with a local gent who is a pro trainer and breeder, 5-10yrs ago he sold tons of started dogs, now he sells them all as pups or waits until they are broke and sells them as finished dogs. He said just started having a hard time selling a started dog of late.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

I don't think it's TOO much especially when you see pups selling for that & more.There is a litter now on gundogs online for $2000 each now explain that.I do think hunters are more critical of pups,dogs. & pricess some want everything for almost nothing.I think people wanting dogs as pets are more willing to spend the money then most hunters even when the dogs are designer breeds & can't even be registerd. :roll:

[Steve007]

There is a litter now on gundogs online for $2000 each now explain that.

A) Asking ain't getting.

B) There's a sucker born every minute.

C) Some people have more money than brains. (see B)

D) Maybe they're worth it for the right purpose.

Pick one. Or more.

[mountaindogs]

When I was looking for started brittany for a good friend, and am now looking for a started lab for my sister-in-law I constantly run into "started dogs" that are really "owner has not had time to do anything dogs" or "dog is not what they were after" for some reason or another. Too slow or they already messed it up or zillions of other less desirable reasons. I have a friend who has a "started" setter right now that he just bought and the dog is gunshy and blinking! Now he should not have bought that dog without seeing some birdwork or video BUT there are alot of cast off started dogs around. I look for honest people who will tell me the ups and downs of the dog both. It helps if I somewhat know them or know someone that knows them.
When I tried to sell a finished dog a few years ago, I had a tough time. I ended up selling her for less than I should have but was a very good home and we are both happy.

In my limited experience, I find I am best to list price upfront. This weeds out alot of folks, but I think these people wouldn't likely buy anyway. The people who do contact me are truly prepared for price and we can get down to the dog details. I might flex on price but we are starting from the right ballpark.

Your price is right on what I would ask so I definatly think it's very fair. I think the videos are very helpful also to prove the dog is what you say to interested people. I agree the age is a tough one. Always the older pups are viewed as leftover which is irritating since most of the time they have alot of time and money and have been treated as a keeper whether or not they were planned keepers. ALSO in every litter (all 3) I have had here, my personal picks were some of the last to be chosen. People have strange reasons for picking but is has little to do with quaility. But is seems the only people who really believe this are the breeders who see it first hand. I have decided its just a well kept secret and we should take advantage of fates choices
Those are my rambling thoughts but the real answer is up there... you price is on target.

[ACooper]

I don't think it's TOO much especially when you see pups selling for that & more.There is a litter now on gundogs online for $2000 each now explain that.I do think hunters are more critical of pups,dogs. & pricess some want everything for almost nothing.I think people wanting dogs as pets are more willing to spend the money then most hunters even when the dogs are designer breeds & can't even be registerd. :roll:

But Ted they will have their tails 'bobbed" that makes them worth 4x the normal going rate.

[Stoneface]

I know the bottom is out of the birddog market right now - and all other facets of the dog world, from what I hear - so I'm not too terribly surprised people had a problem paying that. This opinion is just from second hand experience... I haven't sold any dogs or pups, just from what I've heard and seen transpire. Everyone wants to pay less, though. I've put some stuff on Craig's List and, without fail, EVERYONE who calls me wants to know how low I'll go on price. That's always, hands-down, the foremost issue. It's like clockwork.

That being said, I don't think it's too expensive by any means for someone who's serious. If I had room for a dog and I wanted that dog, money wouldn't be much of an issue as long as I had it. A good dog and a poor dog cost just as much to take care of, the initial investment is more than worth it.

[skeetdoctor]

Selling seven dogs out of an eight dog litter for $600/ea. is a pretty good return on your investment. You should have made somebody a real deal on the last pup and cut your loses. After pups get older than eight weeks buyers become nervous thinking something is wrong with the pup or pups. Last pup out of the litter is always the hardest to sell that with age stops most buyers.

[Max2]

(IMO) I don't think 1000. is to much . I think your thinking to much Please don't take it the wrong way. After being in my own business for my entire life. When some people want something/service & you tell them a price I have found that if the price is more then they want to spend they will try & say it's to much. If I sold dogs I would just tell the potential buyer that a lot goes into these animals. If they have had one before they will know this & if not they will learn soon enough & know what's fair the next time.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

Hey Andy besides having Bobbed tails they have that Classic Rustic color ticked,patched, & marbled with white.
The thing is if you go to there website they have bred litters before & should know what they can go for,you probably won't recognize a single dog in their peds.
If they have gotten that in the past & can get that now MORE POWER to them!!

[larue]

litters making money,now there is a funny joke.
My last two litters went like this,eva's litter she had 4 pups that survived,one was a stud fee,I keep two but lets assume I sold them.So the potential was 1800
My vet bills for that litter were 1500 bucks,ultra sounds and issues with delivery.another 1000 bucks to fly eva to hoke to be bred.
Missed days of work 1 say for fun 200 and not even looking at food or the previous vet attempts to bred eva to max,another 300.
so for eva's litter I could have made 1800,but I kept 2 as this was the reason I bred them,so my income was 600 and my costs were well over 3400.
My last litter I could say i did better,no stud fee,sold 3 pups 1800,vet costs around 400 including tails,registration and advertising 100.
so I probably netted 1100 from maxines litter of 3,if you do not count food or the birds I used or the gas to drive to the vet ect.If you added just food alone I would have not made money.
I say that because eva and maxine and cal have all had one litter,together that is 25 years of feeding a dog.
Make money of liiters? you better have a bunch of them,and you better not use a vet much,and you certainly cannot ship a dog out to be bred.

[cjhills]

Selling seven dogs out of an eight dog litter for $600/ea. is a pretty good return on your investment. You should have made somebody a real deal on the last pup and cut your loses. After pups get older than eight weeks buyers become nervous thinking something is wrong with the pup or pups. Last pup out of the litter is always the hardest to sell that with age stops most buyers.

He said he wasn't trying to sell the bitch, just someone was interested and how do you know what his investment was or if it was a good return. Nothing wrong with making a profit on your puppies. We get $1500 to $1750 for a pup like that. Many buyers are looking for dogs like that so they don't have to deal with the puppy things. Cj