Hawk problems

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Big bloc
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Hawk problems

Post by Big bloc » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:39 pm

I keep my pigeons in a flight pen. I have this hawk that keeps landing on the top. Birds go crazy until I run him off.Is there something like a scare crow effect I could put on top. I want to fly the birds but not until I get a handle on this. Thank you

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by Cajun Casey » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:48 pm

Try Tanglefoot.

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llewellinsetter
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Re: Hawk problems

Post by llewellinsetter » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:12 pm

try a daisy bb gun not strong enough to kill him but will shoo him off... couple shots in the bum and he will be gone

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bmcox86
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Re: Hawk problems

Post by bmcox86 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:44 pm

Maybe a coyote call or decoy maybe

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:01 pm

Hang some shiny cd discs. Hawks don't like them. May help.

Ezzy

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by Scott Linden » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:11 pm

llewellinsetter wrote:try a daisy bb gun not strong enough to kill him but will shoo him off... couple shots in the bum and he will be gone
Then cook up a real good explanation to tell the game cop who wasn't there when you only pumped your Red Ryder one time but was there when you popped off the shot.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by Hattrick » Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:52 am

Sum problems just need fixed.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by V-John » Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:42 am

On one of the pigeon forums, one guy was really successful using a spotlight to scare off hawks. I'm talking about the several million candle (I think he was using a five million candle spotlight) spotlight.

Just let out the young birds to loft fly, and had a hawk take a half-assed attempt at one of our ybs. Not real thrilled.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by Ken Lynch » Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:35 am

Why are Raptors still protected? For sure they are not endangered.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by Karen » Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:45 am

No game birds = no bird hunters. Pretty soon there won't be any song birds left. You can thank the greenie weenies.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by Cajun Casey » Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:46 am

Ken Lynch wrote:Why are Raptors still protected? For sure they are not endangered.
All native non-game species are protected.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:53 am

Cajun Casey wrote:
Ken Lynch wrote:Why are Raptors still protected? For sure they are not endangered.
All native non-game species are protected.
Think you better research this before you post it.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by KCBrittfan » Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:12 am

Cajun Casey wrote:
Ken Lynch wrote:Why are Raptors still protected? For sure they are not endangered.
All native non-game species are protected.
Really?? So swatting a common house fly is killing a protected species?

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by Gertie » Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:33 am

House flies are not protected but raptors and other migratory birds are. They've been protected since 1918 under the "Migratory Bird Treaty Act" so this isn't a some new "greenie weenie" law (http://www.fws.gov/laws/lawsdigest/migtrea.html). It's probably a good thing that there are protections in place or many of them would likely have been listed as threatened or endangered and management repercussions that go along with federal listing under ESA are a lot tougher to live with than the hawks themselves. If you have an animal that you consider to be a nuisance you can call APHIS Wildlife Damage Department and get some help http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/index.shtml .

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by Cajun Casey » Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:55 am

ezzy333 wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:
Ken Lynch wrote:Why are Raptors still protected? For sure they are not endangered.
All native non-game species are protected.
Think you better research this before you post it.
See below. European house finches, starlings and pigeons are unregulated for pest control purposes. Legally, you may not trap, kill, harass or disturb the nests or roosts of native non-game species. There are exceptions, but they are allowed only under permit. The Pale Male red-tailed hawk saga is a good example of what can happen when somebody messes with a raptor.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by mask » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:42 am

There used to be a federal live trap permit available for problem raptors. You could live trap and relocate them far enough away to keep them from coming back. Don't know that type of permit is still available.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by Ken Lynch » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:02 pm

Gertie - I agree that the Migratory Bird Treaty Act has been around since 1918 and is in control on this subject. However, you will notice it allows for setting rules and seasons on harvesting migratory birds. Nuisance birds have seasons on them. Just saying that maybe it is time to relax the law and allow some harvesting of raptors.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by wems2371 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:34 pm

Speaking of hawks, I happened to glance out my living room window and saw this one. I'm sure he was hoping for a brush pile rabbit, and I've lost a few pigeons lately and found feather piles. Any guess as to what kind this is? Doesn't have the blue/gray color of a Cooper and the tail bars are thinner and tighter together I think. I did have a Cooper in a coop about this time last year though. Is this a Juvenile Red Tail? Just curious...
GDFhawk.jpg
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Re: Hawk problems

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:14 pm

Looks like a young red-tail.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:08 pm

If the other, more important, factors affecting game birds and decline curves were inconsequential in measure then spending the time and effort necessary to attempt passage of raptor seasons might be a nice hobby.
They aren't, so raptor rants are good for little more than high-fives and Internet tough talk...or relating imagined shining times during days gone by.

Have better habitat and raptors become less of a factor.
Shorter winter hunting seasons for some gamebirds also renders raptors less of a fret.
Regional and seasonal raptor numbers are indeed a factor but much overblown when considering effort and reward with change.

Raptors re pigeons....much ado about little and I lost 10 pigeons to a sharp-shinned last winter.
Oh well.
Bird was hungry.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by mask » Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:22 pm

How much of a problem raptors are depends on whose ox is being gored. How one handles problem raptors is up to them and OK with me.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:20 am

Mountaineer wrote:If the other, more important, factors affecting game birds and decline curves were inconsequential in measure then spending the time and effort necessary to attempt passage of raptor seasons might be a nice hobby.
They aren't, so raptor rants are good for little more than high-fives and Internet tough talk...or relating imagined shining times during days gone by.

Have better habitat and raptors become less of a factor.
Shorter winter hunting seasons for some gamebirds also renders raptors less of a fret.
Regional and seasonal raptor numbers are indeed a factor but much overblown when considering effort and reward with change.

Raptors re pigeons....much ado about little and I lost 10 pigeons to a sharp-shinned last winter.
Oh well.
Bird was hungry.
Not quite so easy to discount them when you lose half of your birds the first day you have them out. Somewhat of a problem when you lose a bird you paid 1000 for or one of your champion birds. Nothing wrong with protecting them but when they start damaging and killing it is time to do something about them. I just hate to see so many people forced to break the law to protect their property.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:48 pm

ODD, MY RESPONSE TO THE PREVIOUS POST BY EZZY HAS DISAPPEARED.
MUST HAVE BEEN THAT EVEN ODDER GLITCH THAT STRIKES A THREAD SEEMINGLY AT RANDOM.
GOOD THING THAT I ESCHEW BLACK HELICOPTERS. :D

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:52 pm

Mountaineer wrote:ODD, MY RESPONSE TO THE PREVIOUS POST BY EZZY HAS DISAPPEARED.
MUST HAVE BEEN THAT EVEN ODDER GLITCH THAT STRIKES A THREAD SEEMINGLY AT RANDOM.
GOOD THING THAT I ESCHEW BLACK HELICOPTERS. :D
Did you read Rob's post? Seems it explained what happened.

Ezzy

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by steveouk » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:58 pm

As some one that hunts with both dog and hawk and keeps pigeons, i'm saddened by some of the reply and welcome some of the others.

Raptors are Protected even from harassment, its a hefty fine and even imprisonment as its a federal offence. 80% of raptors die in the first year alone. IF you want rid of it ask your local falconry club (most states have them) to come and get it and remove it for you. Most falconers would be more than willing to relocate this bird some miles from the problem.

If it's a coopers hawk that coming to the loft normally they come at a set time each day. Let your pigeons out either before or after that bird comes.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by V-John » Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:20 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Not quite so easy to discount them when you lose half of your birds the first day you have them out. Somewhat of a problem when you lose a bird you paid 1000 for or one of your champion birds. Nothing wrong with protecting them but when they start damaging and killing it is time to do something about them. I just hate to see so many people forced to break the law to protect their property.

X2. I see it as similar to protecting your livestock. Especially these birds who folks have paid a great deal of smoney for or have spent a great deal of time and effort training the bird.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by Wildweeds » Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:33 pm

And when Gwen McDeavitt got busted for having her hired man shoot hawks that were killing her birds she got a major fine that included running a full page ad in several bird dog magazines explaining that she was wrong.somewhere around the early 2000's,I saw the ads in gundog and pointing dog journal.

V-John wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:
Not quite so easy to discount them when you lose half of your birds the first day you have them out. Somewhat of a problem when you lose a bird you paid 1000 for or one of your champion birds. Nothing wrong with protecting them but when they start damaging and killing it is time to do something about them. I just hate to see so many people forced to break the law to protect their property.

X2. I see it as similar to protecting your livestock. Especially these birds who folks have paid a great deal of smoney for or have spent a great deal of time and effort training the bird.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by nikegundog » Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:37 pm

steveouk wrote:As some one that hunts with both dog and hawk and keeps pigeons, i'm saddened by some of the reply and welcome some of the others.

Raptors are Protected even from harassment, its a hefty fine and even imprisonment as its a federal offence. 80% of raptors die in the first year alone. IF you want rid of it ask your local falconry club (most states have them) to come and get it and remove it for you. Most falconers would be more than willing to relocate this bird some miles from the problem.

If it's a coopers hawk that coming to the loft normally they come at a set time each day. Let your pigeons out either before or after that bird comes.
So how does on go about getting the permits to relocate them?

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by V-John » Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:59 pm

Wildweeds wrote:And when Gwen McDeavitt got busted for having her hired man shoot hawks that were killing her birds she got a major fine that included running a full page ad in several bird dog magazines explaining that she was wrong.somewhere around the early 2000's,I saw the ads in gundog and pointing dog journal.

V-John wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:
Not quite so easy to discount them when you lose half of your birds the first day you have them out. Somewhat of a problem when you lose a bird you paid 1000 for or one of your champion birds. Nothing wrong with protecting them but when they start damaging and killing it is time to do something about them. I just hate to see so many people forced to break the law to protect their property.

X2. I see it as similar to protecting your livestock. Especially these birds who folks have paid a great deal of smoney for or have spent a great deal of time and effort training the bird.
Ok?

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:10 pm

I am not suggesting anyone break the law but I am saying the law is flawed. Does it seem strange you can protect your property from humans, dogs, deer, cats, wolves, but not from our over supply of hawks and falcons? When their numbers were low I understood but they have recovered and are now being allowed to over populate and that means some other bird is being threatened but that is OK. Historically we have always allowed the pendulum to swing too far to both sides before we do anything about it and we never seem to learn.

Ezzy

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by millerms06 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:49 am

ezzy333 wrote:I am not suggesting anyone break the law but I am saying the law is flawed. Does it seem strange you can protect your property from humans, dogs, deer, cats, wolves, but not from our over supply of hawks and falcons? When their numbers were low I understood but they have recovered and are now being allowed to over populate and that means some other bird is being threatened but that is OK. Historically we have always allowed the pendulum to swing too far to both sides before we do anything about it and we never seem to learn.

Ezzy

I live in the city and I have two young adult hawks that have nested in my neighborhood. My wife yells at me once in awhile because she sometimes notices the "I want to exterminate you" look when they catch my attention.

On my dad's land up north, we installed blinking led lights on twenty foot poles that turn on before sundown and turn off after sunrise. Since they have been installed, we see less owls and hawks, but still have to trap weasels now and then.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by jasonw99 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:52 am

put a perch on the pen. on top of the perch put a foot hold trap. No shooting neccesary :)

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by Gertie » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:56 am

ezzy333 wrote:I am not suggesting anyone break the law but I am saying the law is flawed. Does it seem strange you can protect your property from humans, dogs, deer, cats, wolves, but not from our over supply of hawks and falcons? When their numbers were low I understood but they have recovered and are now being allowed to over populate and that means some other bird is being threatened but that is OK. Historically we have always allowed the pendulum to swing too far to both sides before we do anything about it and we never seem to learn.

Ezzy
By whose estimation do we have a hawk over-population problem?

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by nikegundog » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:12 am

Gertie wrote: By whose estimation do we have a hawk over-population problem?
A very similar discussion has happened here recently involving wolves which have been delisted, the anti-hunting crowd feels that there is no such thing as a over population problem. On a similar situation, cormorants are allowed (by permit) to be shot off stock fish ponds, even though they are protected.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by Chukar12 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:16 am

We have to turn the internet off. I wonder if that would be a process or if there is just a switch or something? Isn't it safe to assume that when the original poster asked for help or advice that they were looking for a solution short of breaking the law?

A debate over the over population certainly seems appropriate but a fringe topic at best to the original posters question.

Handle your business in whatever manner allows you to sleep at night and in any way that you are willing to take accountability for. However, it is just good manners and common sense to recognize that if you are the representative fabric of sportsmen and women overall the best practice is to avoid the billboard proclamation of lawlessness. If you need attention that bad, you can always go get some of those synthetic testicles to hang off of your hitch receiver...people will notice you.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by deseeker » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:22 am

Chukar12 wrote: If you need attention that bad, you can always go get some of those synthetic testicles to hang off of your hitch receiver...people will notice you.
:roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by millerms06 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:24 am

Chukar12 wrote:We have to turn the internet off. I wonder if that would be a process or if there is just a switch or something? Isn't it safe to assume that when the original poster asked for help or advice that they were looking for a solution short of breaking the law?

A debate over the over population certainly seems appropriate but a fringe topic at best to the original posters question.

Handle your business in whatever manner allows you to sleep at night and in any way that you are willing to take accountability for. However, it is just good manners and common sense to recognize that if you are the representative fabric of sportsmen and women overall the best practice is to avoid the billboard proclamation of lawlessness. If you need attention that bad, you can always go get some of those synthetic testicles to hang off of your hitch receiver...people will notice you.

I agree, finding what works without breaking the law is best. From my experience blinking LEDs have been an effective tool.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:35 am

I knew folks that killed herons on their minnow ponds...justification happens.

Pigeons are rarely equal to livestock...livestock as a primary income source which is and should be the determiner for government damage relief.
Otherwise, work around what your hobby requires.

The real problem with raptor swatting in a created season is identification.
For too many, raptors are all equal.
Expecting restraint re trigger slaps at hawks is a bit optimistic once trigger slaps are allowed.....identifying a dead raptor is too late, the old shoot first scenario.
Not all of talons and hooked beaks carry the same harm and so not all should carry the same blame...some even bring positives to the environment.
Allow a raptor season and then listen to the hunters whine as they see more during a migration period outside the season....one begun, killing black hats would be tough to stem.

As with hunter additivity on ruffed grouse on a covert level, raptor effect on the same basis certainly exists.
But, a wider focus and consideration past self is the wisest path.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by V-John » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:15 pm

Mountaineer wrote:I knew folks that killed herons on their minnow ponds...justification happens.

Pigeons are rarely equal to livestock...livestock as a primary income source which is and should be the determiner for government damage relief.
Otherwise, work around what your hobby requires.

The real problem with raptor swatting in a created season is identification.
For too many, raptors are all equal.
Expecting restraint re trigger slaps at hawks is a bit optimistic once trigger slaps are allowed.....identifying a dead raptor is too late, the old shoot first scenario.
Not all of talons and hooked beaks carry the same harm and so not all should carry the same blame...some even bring positives to the environment.
Allow a raptor season and then listen to the hunters whine as they see more during a migration period outside the season....one begun, killing black hats would be tough to stem.

As with hunter additivity on ruffed grouse on a covert level, raptor effect on the same basis certainly exists.
But, a wider focus and consideration past self is the wisest path.
I missed where it was suggested that there be an "created season".

"Expecting restraint re trigger slaps at hawks is a bit optimistic once trigger slaps are allowed" - Pretty negative outlook on the hunter though.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:26 pm

Many want to be able to kill raptors...a season is one legal route often put forth as an answer to solve a perceived problem whenever this subject arises on a double handful of message boards.

And yes, yes it is.
Derived from reading those message boards and realizing that more than the best of hunters or humans may want in the killing game.
Identification remains a bugaboo.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by V-John » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:11 pm

Mountaineer wrote:Many want to be able to kill raptors...a season is one legal route often put forth as an answer to solve a perceived problem whenever this subject arises on a double handful of message boards.

And yes, yes it is.
Derived from reading those message boards and realizing that more than the best of hunters or humans may want in the killing game.
Identification remains a bugaboo.
I percieve a "season" as actively going out in search of a game.
But in retrospect, it isn't always like that.
With the subject of hawks/raptors, I very much have a "leave me alone, and I'll leave you alone" type of philospophy.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:24 pm

Mountaineer wrote:Many want to be able to kill raptors...a season is one legal route often put forth as an answer to solve a perceived problem whenever this subject arises on a double handful of message boards.

And yes, yes it is.
Derived from reading those message boards and realizing that more than the best of hunters or humans may want in the killing game.
Identification remains a bugaboo.
Strange isn't it how we all can justify something that doesn't concern us personally. We just had a topic or two about traps being outlawed because a dog got caught in them and as always we had the usual "I'm tougher than you" post about what everyone would do if their dog got caught. We have had posts about the big bad coyote killing dogs and how we should solve that problem. We read about mountain lions migrating into our part of the country and how they were shot because they might catch a dog or kill a calf. And we know they have attacked people out west on bicycle paths. And the dreaded wolf and how to get rid of them from the grouse woods because they are killing dogs. And the grizzly's and other predators that need to be controlled but please don't mention that the raptors that are increasing in numbers rapidly to the extent they are about to kill the pigeon racing and I am sure helping to decrease the already troubled bob-white. I should have never mentioned that I thought the laws needed to be looked at since presently there is nothing you can do to protect your property from them, unlike any of the other species I mentioned.

Trying to solve a problem legally shouldn't be looked on with such disdain even if your ox isn't being gored because things have a habit of changing and it might be yours next.

Ezzy

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:27 pm

I have had a Great Horned Owl in my loft and also a Sharp Shin. I put on welders golves and transfered to a small dog kennel. I gave them to my neighbor, a "fish & game" warden and he took them for a ride. The Sharp Shin came back but won't go in the loft anymore but tries to "pick off" my young birds. The adults can avoide him pretty good. Have not see him lately. My Brittany neighbor across the way "creek" has homers and I heard he was making a living on his birds. He has disapeared like Jimmy Hoffa.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by Gertie » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:13 pm

nikegundog wrote:
Gertie wrote: By whose estimation do we have a hawk over-population problem?
A very similar discussion has happened here recently involving wolves which have been delisted, the anti-hunting crowd feels that there is no such thing as a over population problem. On a similar situation, cormorants are allowed (by permit) to be shot off stock fish ponds, even though they are protected.
I just did a random sampling of the raptor population index website and, with a very few exceptions, the trend is toward declining populations, particularly for accipiters. Check it out for yourself. http://rpi-project.org/2011/graphs.php?rsite=601

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:22 pm

ezzy333 wrote:...Strange isn't it how we all can justify something that doesn't concern us personally. We just had a topic or two about traps being outlawed because a dog got caught in them and as always we had the usual "I'm tougher than you" post about what everyone would do if their dog got caught. We have had posts about the big bad coyote killing dogs and how we should solve that problem.
From me, re traps, you could interpret two points most clearly.
One, that any trap that killed or injured one of my dogs would be destroyed and I would happily accept the consequences of that action.
No resultant pride of action, no bragging or false bravado...nothing but truth with any Internet tough talk re traps or whatever, left to the method of posting of others.
And secondly, my concern was not about banning Trapping but was toward those who set traps illegally, either in placement or in the selfish desire to kill stuff, especially with non-discriminating snares, for the sole reason of protecting their deer hunting.
Since ...many...appear to want to ignore those who set snares with such intent as non-existent or as possessing membership in some glorious and untouchable brotherhood of the outdoors then yes, I would ban snares entirely.
Conibears are best addressed with placement re dogs.
Your generalization above is just that and unrepresentative of my own feelings or statements...even tho that was implied by using a quote from me.
If I was unclear and that lead you to link me with such immaturity as expressed on both sides then ask...I'll clear it the H(e)ll up.

Re these raptors, if somehow you mean to imply a pigeon lost equates to that of a dog killed or injured from a trap of some manner then that is very good to know and difficult to understand.
I'm glad that I don't understand it in fact....perhaps, you do not go that far.
Re the analogy of protecting one's home from people that you used...as I stated in the deleted post, I find it difficult to imagine the law that a raptor is breaking as compared to the obvious law(s) broken by a criminal of some measure.
That comparably dumb critter, the raptor is simply answering to the Law of Survival.
Apple and orange analogies serve understanding and progress poorly.
Re raptor numbers, while protection can certainly serve to increase any critter population, an established idea is that more Prey equals more Predators.....which is likely why hunter numbers peak in better bird years.
Raptor numbers, re the identification problem I mentioned, may also be a bit in question....other than on message boards or in barbershops where solutions to tough problems run first to triggers, generalizations and anecdotal evidence.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by nikegundog » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:36 pm

Gertie wrote:
nikegundog wrote:
Gertie wrote: By whose estimation do we have a hawk over-population problem?
A very similar discussion has happened here recently involving wolves which have been delisted, the anti-hunting crowd feels that there is no such thing as a over population problem. On a similar situation, cormorants are allowed (by permit) to be shot off stock fish ponds, even though they are protected.
I just did a random sampling of the raptor population index website and, with a very few exceptions, the trend is toward declining populations, particularly for accipiters. Check it out for yourself. http://rpi-project.org/2011/graphs.php?rsite=601
I'm sorry Gertie, I wasn't suggesting a season (my post was poorly worded), I was just suggesting if numbers warranted a occasionally nuisance bird could be taken by permit similar to what is done in regards to cormorants. It was mentioned in another post that a raptor club member could relocate it and that would be an even better solution although I don't know how feasible that would be.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by Gertie » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:17 pm

No need to apologize at all :D Not offended a bit. Just thought I'd share the data since it doesn't seem to support the anecdotes mentioned on this thread.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by mask » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:51 pm

OK, I'll try this again. Unless the laws have changed you can get a federal permit to live trap raptors and relocate them. If some of you just want to have a little urinating contest then either kill the offending bird or don't. In my view you have a right to defend your livestock so do it however it suits you.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:58 pm

Gertie wrote:No need to apologize at all :D Not offended a bit. Just thought I'd share the data since it doesn't seem to support the anecdotes mentioned on this thread.
I have not researched the numbers but I do know that the pigeon flyers are seeing more and losing more pigeons to them every year and that is the report across the country. I know for myself and the members of our club we can not let our birds out during the winter until the spring birds get back. I was one of the few who went ahead and bred for some early hatches. I have twenty three as of this morning in my loft that should have been out flying every day as they are 3 months old. That is too old to start them but I did let them out today. I now have twenty one. A neighbor has lost 15 of 34 so far and a member 20 miles from here has lost 8 and most of the rest haven't let theirs out yet. The first bird I ever lost to hawk at the loft was 5 years ago and since then every year. It now appears that hawks are the major cause of losses during the races across the country and it a leading concern the industry has today.

We have two hunting clubs nearby and their losses from hawks is becoming a major factor for them. One of the clubs use to order 300 pheasants and unload them directly into their cover fields. Had to stop because the hawks were catching over half of them.

These are just some of the things that we all are putting up with and it has become a major problem for many people. Mountaineer made the comment about comparing birds to dogs is not realistic and I think he is right. Some of the top racing birds are being sold for thousands of dollars with the very best selling for several hundred thousand. So you really can't compare them to each other as to their monetary worth but of course any one that has either thinks theirs are special.

Our club has a sale every year and we sell 125 birds at auction. Those birds will average somewhere over 500 dollars most years and 2 years ago the average was 700. Just wanted to show you all some figures that may help to explain why people are upset and/or concerned abut the uncontrolled numbers of raptors that are killing the pigeon industry and severely hurting some other areas of our game birds through out the country.

Ezzy.

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Re: Hawk problems

Post by KCBrittfan » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:59 am

Gertie wrote: I just did a random sampling of the raptor population index website and, with a very few exceptions, the trend is toward declining populations, particularly for accipiters. Check it out for yourself. http://rpi-project.org/2011/graphs.php?rsite=601
ezzy333 wrote: I have not researched the numbers but I do know that the pigeon flyers are seeing more and losing more pigeons to them every year and that is the report across the country. . . .
. . . The first bird I ever lost to hawk at the loft was 5 years ago and since then every year. It now appears that hawks are the major cause of losses during the races across the country and it a leading concern the industry has today.

We have two hunting clubs nearby and their losses from hawks is becoming a major factor for them. One of the clubs use to order 300 pheasants and unload them directly into their cover fields. Had to stop because the hawks were catching over half of them.

Ezzy.
From these 2 posts it seems that Ezzy's anecdotal evidence and the study Gertie cites are at odds. However, it is very possible that both are correct.

Statistics must always be considered very, very carefully.

Gertie's study showing the decline in raptor numbers does not take into account the decline in habitat over the same time period. If habitat declined faster than the raptor population went down, then raptor density actually increased. When animal density reaches a certain point, the animals often start behaving in ways they wouldn't normally. Increased boldness around humans and their activities may be one such abnormal behavior caused by excessive population density.

Keep in mind that my comments on habitat decline being greater than raptor decline are only hypothetical "food for thought." I have no idea, and make no claims, about the actual habitat numbers.

I found the study Gertie cited (thank you for finding and sharing it) to be interesting. It might be even more interesting if habitat factors were considered alongside the data collected.

To the original poster: I wonder if the "pigeon spikes" used by pest control companies to keep pigeons from sitting on undesireable perches would work on hawks? I know your pigeons need a landing perch, but perhaps you could make it fold down when not expecting incoming birds.

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