Hunt tests

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Mon May 06, 2013 6:52 am

Just received word of the cancelation of the last hunt test scheduled in Mn. due to lack of entries. Is this because of the late spring and bad training weather or a general lack of interest in hunting tests? Are warmer states getting normal entries. Cj

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Mon May 06, 2013 7:25 am

Jerry,

I think it a little of both...but more that a certain pro isn't doing HT dogs anymore. Years back, and you probably recall, the HT program in MN was a owner/handler/trainer deal. Yes, they was Joe Leblanc that would work some dogs for people but the pro was really a rare deal. Then Chad came along, and he was bring the bulk of the SH/MH entry. Then he decided to get out, and now we're at where we are. In the past, people would drive to the grounds on Friday nite and camp, maybe have a campfire, have a few adult beverages and the next morning, run dogs. The Sat evening, maybe a BBQ on the grounds, more adult beverages and a fire and back into a tent or camper. It really changed with the advent of the HT pro...one fella running 1/2 the dogs, customers may (or may not) come only to watch their dog and then go home.

In 2012 our club ran a HT at Four Brooks, 20 dogs for Sat...19 dogs for Sun. Club lost money. This year, we had around 14 for both days...we cancelled...lack of interest.

The dynamic has changed and I don't see it coming back anytime soon.

wems2371 · Post by **wems2371** » Mon May 06, 2013 7:33 am

I almost posted about this a couple days ago. Last fall I entered my dog in a 2 day test here in eastern Iowa (Palo), only to get cancelled due to lack of numbers. Big disappointment.

Five or six weekends ago, they did have a successful HT weekend at Palo. But then a couple weekends ago, another was scheduled there, and it was cancelled for not enough entries also. Around that same time, the Brittany Club was to hold one near central Iowa, and it was cancelled. I'm beginning to think I'm going to have to travel some distance, if I want to chase a HT title.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon May 06, 2013 8:15 am

Raise the premiums. Although a lot of peiople won't do the math and see that a fifty percent increase in premium is cheaper than fuel.

Ms. Cage · Post by **Ms. Cage** » Mon May 06, 2013 8:18 am

Howie had planned on running a dog next weekend. Didn't get birds until last friday. I do know of a few other NAVHDA folks who planned on running. Maybe they are like Howie , sends entries in at the last minute. Jerry, Did the Rice Creek Club hold a test at Chads ?

jimbo&rooster · Post by **jimbo&rooster** » Mon May 06, 2013 8:27 am

I have had several conversations this spring with different folks and I hear a lot of people just getting bored and frustrated with the HT game in general. Now those conversations have been with FT folks at FTs.

Jim

original mngsp · Post by **original mngsp** » Mon May 06, 2013 8:48 am

Rice Creek cancelled too. This was on thier website.

Notice of Pointer Test Cancellation
Due to the non arrival of Spring, tons of Snow that just recently left, not being able to Train and
incredably low Entries, we are forced to cancel our Hunt Test.

I will be happy to return your voiced Check or I can destroy them by Shredding. Please let me
know your desire by replying to this E-Mail. Also, that way I will know that you received this
notification and I will no longer have to worry that you did not get this information.

Thank you all for entering Rice Creek Hunting Dog Club's Hunt Test scheduled for May 4 & 5,
2013. Your entering our Test is greatly appreciated. The Club will be deciding wether we will
be able to have this years Hunt Test at a later date sometime this year. If we are able to
eventually have one, we will of course notify you.

Thank you for your understanding.

Dianne Pflipsen, Test Secretary
RICE CREEK HUNTING DOG CLUB

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Mon May 06, 2013 9:31 am

jimbo&rooster wrote:I have had several conversations this spring with different folks and I hear a lot of people just getting bored and frustrated with the HT game in general. Now those conversations have been with FT folks at FTs.

Jim

This is not anything new. I have little or no interest in trials but really have liked the hunt tests. I admit sometimes it is frustrating. (right Dan)
I do miss the social part which has pretty much disappeared.

We had a walking field trial last weekend and didn't have a lot of entries in that either.
I have three puppies I would like to put Masters on next spring, but it's not looking to good. travel expenses or higher entry fees will probably make it unfeasible. it looks like hunt tests are going the way of the dinosaur. Cj

millerms06 · Post by **millerms06** » Mon May 06, 2013 9:38 am

Has the NAVDHA and NSTRA chapters in the area seen an increase in registrations between then and now? I had spoken to someone at a recent hunt test that was from Iowa and they were going to try some different things out in order to increase hunt test participation for future events. I think premiums are noticed by everyone, and I think raising them would be a damaging thing.

Maybe having a regional championship of sorts would boost interest? Only hunt test title holders at their highest rank? Might have to put something in there that field trial placement holders cannot compete and once you win you cannot repeat? Some people might disagree with the last, but lets be frank, you have to create springboards that facilitate participation increase all around. Nothing is going to do it more than from the owner/handler/trainer level.

Someone will suggest "well just join NAVDHA or NSTRA" but we are specifically talking about an AKC thing. And I would be surprised if some other places around the country are not experiencing the same things.

Carolina Gundogs · Post by **Carolina Gundogs** » Mon May 06, 2013 9:40 am

The hunt tests seem to be as popular as ever in SC. I had to wait on several lists to try and get in on a couple of tests this season.

JeremyS · Post by **JeremyS** » Mon May 06, 2013 9:42 am

Wyndancer wrote:Jerry,

I think it a little of both...but more that a certain pro isn't doing HT dogs anymore. Years back, and you probably recall, the HT program in MN was a owner/handler/trainer deal. Yes, they was Joe Leblanc that would work some dogs for people but the pro was really a rare deal. Then Chad came along, and he was bring the bulk of the SH/MH entry. Then he decided to get out, and now we're at where we are. In the past, people would drive to the grounds on Friday nite and camp, maybe have a campfire, have a few adult beverages and the next morning, run dogs. The Sat evening, maybe a BBQ on the grounds, more adult beverages and a fire and back into a tent or camper. It really changed with the advent of the HT pro...one fella running 1/2 the dogs, customers may (or may not) come only to watch their dog and then go home.

In 2012 our club ran a HT at Four Brooks, 20 dogs for Sat...19 dogs for Sun. Club lost money. This year, we had around 14 for both days...we cancelled...lack of interest.

The dynamic has changed and I don't see it coming back anytime soon.

I think this has a lot to do with it. I know the Sioux Falls tests go off pretty well. I think they do a great job providing a good atmosphere that makes you want to hang out all day. There probably needs to be a balance somewhere though. It is nice to have the pros there with a few dogs.

I am sure that this year the weather and lack of training did keep people away. I know I planned on heading to Nebraska in March and both of the tests that Denise said cancelled in Southern IA. The weather just kept me from training and I refuse to ruin someone else's day by running my dogs when they aren't ready.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon May 06, 2013 10:16 am

I think the AKC should allow two runs per dog per event with a reduced cost for the second.

millerms06 · Post by **millerms06** » Mon May 06, 2013 10:37 am

Cajun Casey wrote:I think the AKC should allow two runs per dog per event with a reduced cost for the second.

I agree with you on that one Casey, I do not think it should be where a dog should do more than two at an event. The ones that I have gone to I haven't seen someone do this, but you hear the "five passes this weekend" come up.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon May 06, 2013 10:44 am

millerms06 wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:I think the AKC should allow two runs per dog per event with a reduced cost for the second.
I agree with you on that one Casey, I do not think it should be where a dog should do more than two at an event. The ones that I have gone to I haven't seen someone do this, but you hear the "five passes this weekend" come up.

If more than one club in in the same location, then each day counts as an event. If each of two clubs ran concurrent three day tests, then a dog could get six passes in a weekend. vIn an AKC Field Trial, you can enter a dog in multiple stakes, same in Rally and Conformation.

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Mon May 06, 2013 12:40 pm

Cajun,

They local Brit club and the V club have paired up over the last couple of years. They hold each hold a HT on the same grounds on the same weekend. It can be a logistical nightmare in a couple of ways. 1) Handler conflicts, 2) Dog course conflicts. Then you have to have a huge number of judges to run 4 courses at the same time....even 2 courses at the same time....gunners as well.

We shall see what happens at this years renewal.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Mon May 06, 2013 2:35 pm

Clubs can host a double/double test and the dogs can run 4 stakes in one weekend. The clubs can also offer retrieving stakes since many of the pointing breeds are eligible for retriever HT titles. This may recruit some NAVHDA people since it combines alot of the disciplines that they train for. With these newer rules a dog could run 16 legs in 2 days at a double/double Hunt Test.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon May 06, 2013 3:35 pm

My point is let them run twice in the same stake. If a single club had a one day test, a dog could get two passes.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Mon May 06, 2013 3:40 pm

a single club can run 2 legs on the same day for a total of 4 per stake per weekend. I have run the same dog in 12 stakes in one weekend hosted by the same club. If the club hosts the Test as a double/double, you can enter the dog in as many stakes as you want to up to and including 12 of the available stakes. if that club also offered a JH Retrieving stake that same dog could run 16 stakes in 2 days.

Since there is only one dog that has its JHR title, I dont see a benefit to for pointing clubs offering and SH or MH unless they piggy backed with a local Retriever Club.

Ms. Cage · Post by **Ms. Cage** » Mon May 06, 2013 4:01 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:Clubs can host a double/double test and the dogs can run 4 stakes in one weekend. The clubs can also offer retrieving stakes since many of the pointing breeds are eligible for retriever HT titles. This may recruit some NAVHDA people since it combines alot of the disciplines that they train for. With these newer rules a dog could run 16 legs in 2 days at a double/double Hunt Test.

In Minnesota I think there is a fair amount of NAVHDA people that run MH.

deseeker · Post by **deseeker** » Mon May 06, 2013 4:09 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:a single club can run 2 legs on the same day for a total of 4 per stake per weekend. I have run the same dog in 12 stakes in one weekend hosted by the same club. If the club hosts the Test as a double/double, you can enter the dog in as many stakes as you want to up to and including 12 of the available stakes. if that club also offered a JH Retrieving stake that same dog could run 16 stakes in 2 days.

Since there is only one dog that has its JHR title, I dont see a benefit to for pointing clubs offering and SH or MH unless they piggy backed with a local Retriever Club.

Not in AKC you can't--in AKC you can only run in 1 level a day plus the water retrieve if it is put on by a single club. If 2 clubs are running a double- double
then you can do 1 run in 1 level for each club(per day), plus if the are having water retrieves then you can run once 1 for each club.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Mon May 06, 2013 4:33 pm

Ms. Cage wrote:
Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:Clubs can host a double/double test and the dogs can run 4 stakes in one weekend. The clubs can also offer retrieving stakes since many of the pointing breeds are eligible for retriever HT titles. This may recruit some NAVHDA people since it combines alot of the disciplines that they train for. With these newer rules a dog could run 16 legs in 2 days at a double/double Hunt Test.
In Minnesota I think there is a fair amount of NAVHDA people that run MH.

If so, offer the JHR stake at AKC tests so they can get another AKC title. IMO, clubs are not maximizing on the new AKC rules in order to boost attendance.

I understand that it takes more judges but some of us can become judges in order to fill that requirement. It would give me another reason to attend HT's as a judge and attendant as well as giving more people a reason to attend.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon May 06, 2013 4:35 pm

Not in AKC you can't--in AKC you can only run in 1 level a day plus the water retrieve if it is put on by a single club. If 2 clubs are running a double- double
then you can do 1 run in 1 level for each club(per day), plus if the are having water retrieves then you can run once 1 for each club.
User avatar
deseeker Rank: 2X Champion Posts: 433Joined: 14 Dec 2010, 14:38Location: Blair, Nebraska

They do this quite often at Desplaines. You are able to get the 4 tests in and with luck a title. Works a lot better when gas is so high.

Ezzy

deseeker · Post by **deseeker** » Mon May 06, 2013 4:52 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Not in AKC you can't--in AKC you can only run in 1 level a day plus the water retrieve if it is put on by a single club. If 2 clubs are running a double- double
then you can do 1 run in 1 level for each club(per day), plus if the are having water retrieves then you can run once 1 for each club.
User avatar
deseeker Rank: 2X Champion Posts: 433Joined: 14 Dec 2010, 14:38Location: Blair, Nebraska

They do this quite often at Desplaines. You are able to get the 4 tests in and with luck a title. Works a lot better when gas is so high.

Ezzy

Ezzy, I know you can get 4 passes at a double-double in a week end. Reread what Brazovalley says--- he says you can get 12 passes from a single club in a weekend???? or am I reading his post wrong???

original mngsp · Post by **original mngsp** » Mon May 06, 2013 4:55 pm

I understand that it takes more judges but some of us can become judges in order to fill that requirement.

Thats a whole different can of worms to open up with that statement. A few years ago when the AKC and their "blue ribbon panel" decided something needed to be done about the hunt test judging they came up with a whole slug of qualifications and requirements to become a judge and/or remain a judge. What they have ended up doing is creating a shortage of new judges, even with the revisions they still don't have enough new prospects coming up. Sadly this whole debacle didn't fix the problem that it was supposed to, which was to get quality experienced people that knew what hunting with pointing dogs is all about.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Mon May 06, 2013 4:56 pm

My question also. also runs don't necessarily equal passes. Cj

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Mon May 06, 2013 5:50 pm

deseeker wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:
Not in AKC you can't--in AKC you can only run in 1 level a day plus the water retrieve if it is put on by a single club. If 2 clubs are running a double- double
then you can do 1 run in 1 level for each club(per day), plus if the are having water retrieves then you can run once 1 for each club.
User avatar
deseeker Rank: 2X Champion Posts: 433Joined: 14 Dec 2010, 14:38Location: Blair, Nebraska

They do this quite often at Desplaines. You are able to get the 4 tests in and with luck a title. Works a lot better when gas is so high.

Ezzy
Ezzy, I know you can get 4 passes at a double-double in a week end. Reread what Brazovalley says--- he says you can get 12 passes from a single club in a weekend???? or am I reading his post wrong???

The AKC has now made "lesser" titles available. IE, if you have an MH, that dog can now earn a JH and or SH if it skipped those titles. It used to be that you couldnt go back and earn a lesser title but you could enter the dog anyway.

Throw on top of that where they offer the "ADVANCED" levels such as MHA and you can enter the same dog in multiple stakes. I have the 1st dog to earn the MHA title and in one weekend he ran in 4 MH, 4 SH and 4 JH stakes. I only did it because he had skipped JH and MH and to support our clubs.

All legs were recorded with the AKC.

The crazy part of it for me is that you can have the 1st MHA in the AKC but you still have to get your specified number of legs in JH or SH before advancing toward JHA or SHA.

Pointing breeds can now earn "retrieving" Hunt Test titles now so if clubs offered all of the available options, they may attract more attendance.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon May 06, 2013 5:56 pm

Maybe they should just let the Labs into PBHTs.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Mon May 06, 2013 6:04 pm

I can't even begin to imagine why anybody would want to junior title a master dog. but whatever floats your boat. Advanced titles are not separate stakes and clubs don't offer them as a separate entry. CJ

Post by **Sharon** » Mon May 06, 2013 6:09 pm

cjhills wrote:
jimbo&rooster wrote:I have had several conversations this spring with different folks and I hear a lot of people just getting bored and frustrated with the HT game in general. Now those conversations have been with FT folks at FTs.

Jim
This is not anything new. I have little or no interest in trials but really have liked the hunt tests. I admit sometimes it is frustrating. (right Dan)
I do miss the social part which has pretty much disappeared.

We had a walking field trial last weekend and didn't have a lot of entries in that either.
I have three puppies I would like to put Masters on next spring, but it's not looking to good. travel expenses or higher entry fees will probably make it unfeasible. it looks like hunt tests are going the way of the dinosaur. Cj

Same story here in ON. Kids aren't being brought up with guns and gun dogs anymore , as my generation was. It's Facebook and video games now - generally speaking.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Mon May 06, 2013 7:18 pm

cjhills wrote:I can't even begin to imagine why anybody would want to junior title a master dog. but whatever floats your boat. Advanced titles are not separate stakes and clubs don't offer them as a separate entry. CJ

Its called "support your club' and obviously there are many who dont understand this concept therefore the initial question from the OP. If people would actually support their breed clubs, they wouldnt cancel events.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Mon May 06, 2013 7:36 pm

I am the Op and there are many ways to support your club. Artificially propping up the tests is not one.imo. Better to donate the entry fee, your club wouldn't have to share it with AKC. Cj

Ms. Cage · Post by **Ms. Cage** » Mon May 06, 2013 7:42 pm

cjhills wrote:Artificially propping up the tests is not one.imo. Better to donate the entry fee, your club wouldn't have to share it with AKC. Cj

I'm with Jerry. What is there to gain by running a Master Hunter in a JH or SH. I'm not a advocate of the MHA. For some traveling 180 mi. to the nearest hunt test is spendy, spendy. Entry fees, gas ,motels, and food you can have a 300.00 to 500.00 dollar weekend.

campgsp · Post by **campgsp** » Mon May 06, 2013 10:53 pm

cjhills wrote:Just received word of the cancelation of the last hunt test scheduled in Mn. due to lack of entries. Is this because of the late spring and bad training weather or a general lack of interest in hunting tests? Are warmer states getting normal entries. Cj

We were lucky here to not have any cancelled. We've had about 7 tests here at des plaines one being a double club , since march that were smaller then usually but still went on. the 4 tests I ran in April to finish up my boys Sh had a consistent 4 mh, 3 sh, 8-9 Jh. In each test. This is really small for our region. We don't normally see high numbers until fall. And that's when everyone heads up to Ottawa grounds in Wisconsin.

I think a majority of people are doing a lot of spring training to get ready for the tests in the fall. that's probably why you see lots of low entries in the spring. It can also be people are just getting bored and not enough younger people coming in. I take my 3yo son with me to all the tests and he loves it. Think more people should get their kids involved in the tests aswell as them selves. See lots of dogs being run for people by pros. It's a HUNT test by all means....

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Fri May 10, 2013 6:30 am

Hunt tests out here are always full..... Also if you count how much it costs to go to hunt tests or field trials you will not have as much fun.. just do it and have a good time.

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