Hello,
I have a Ryman Setter who is a little over 1 year old. He is a lovable dog most of the time. But there are some things about him that I am not sure I can live with and I need some advice.
The biggest thing is the whining. The SOB whines A LOT! At 5 in the morning he whines. When we are at the table (he is not allowed in the kitchen area) he whines. When my wife and I are in another room talking, he whines. If one of us is home alone and tries to take a shower, he whines and barks. My point is he whines way too much. I know that these dogs are sensitive and want to be with people but this is ridiculous.
Some other things are he pulls on the leash, my wife fell down with him the other day. He jumps. He is mouthy (affectionate chewing). You have to watch him constantly, if there is something he can put in his mouth he will. We have already paid for emergency surgery once because he swallowed something. He is like a vacuum cleaner. He has digestional problems so his food is very expensive.
As far as hunting, I can't say how good he is yet due to his age. I do like to hunt with him but I am not sure if I can deal with him the rest of the year. Part of the problem is me, I can't handle a lot of noise (THE "bleep" WHINING!!!!)
I realize some of these things are correctable but some are not. He is just a pain in the butt. We hope he will out-grow the whining and mouthing. Any advice would be great.
Not sure what to do with our male setter
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Ricky Ticky Shorthairs
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Re: Not sure what to do with our male setter
The jumping, mouthing, and pulling are obedience problems. Has he been disciplined when doing these things?
Is he crate trained? That will help with the whining.
I have gsp's so I'm just used to it. They whine a lot. Some just more than others!
You may want to try a Thunder shirt when he's in his crate. They work pretty good.
Doug
Is he crate trained? That will help with the whining.
I have gsp's so I'm just used to it. They whine a lot. Some just more than others!
You may want to try a Thunder shirt when he's in his crate. They work pretty good.
Doug
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Mountaineer
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Re: Not sure what to do with our male setter
First birddog?
My thought is what brought the "puppy" to this point?
Hopefully, any physical issues or needs have been investigated and addressed.
My advice would be education and training of the "puppy", you and your wife.
Then patience and, additionally, never calling your dog, the "puppy", a SOB :roll: or questioning, after less than a year, that you will be able to "deal" with him outside of hunting and what the "puppy" can do for you.
The attitude implicit therein does not bode well for you in the Future....but most importantly to me, it does not bode well for the "puppy."
I also expect that the "puppy" is picking up on your, and your wife's, frustration and anger...which is likely to make the "puppy" evermore unsure and so any problems, worsen.
It may be important to note that you never mentioned the "puppy's" name.
It may be equally important to consider and accept that not everyone should own a dog.
Beyond those realities, I would suggest that you contact the breeder for suggestions or for avenues that led to and will lead away from that which frustrates you.
My thought is what brought the "puppy" to this point?
Hopefully, any physical issues or needs have been investigated and addressed.
My advice would be education and training of the "puppy", you and your wife.
Then patience and, additionally, never calling your dog, the "puppy", a SOB :roll: or questioning, after less than a year, that you will be able to "deal" with him outside of hunting and what the "puppy" can do for you.
The attitude implicit therein does not bode well for you in the Future....but most importantly to me, it does not bode well for the "puppy."
I also expect that the "puppy" is picking up on your, and your wife's, frustration and anger...which is likely to make the "puppy" evermore unsure and so any problems, worsen.
It may be important to note that you never mentioned the "puppy's" name.
It may be equally important to consider and accept that not everyone should own a dog.
Beyond those realities, I would suggest that you contact the breeder for suggestions or for avenues that led to and will lead away from that which frustrates you.
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DoubleBarrel GunDogs
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Re: Not sure what to do with our male setter
Do yourself and your dog a huge favor and go to this website. www.huntsmith.com Scroll down and read every training article. There is some very helpful information in there that will be pertinent to your situation.
Nate
Nate
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Stoneface
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Re: Not sure what to do with our male setter
A lot of that is just age and this being such a young Setter. Every Setter I've had has been a handful (all my dogs are house dogs). They whine in the house, they bark in the dog box or stake out or chain gang, they don't want to listen, but they melt for human interaction.Very interesting breed and, in my opinion, the best-looking. But that's incidental to your post.
It honestly sounds like you don't take a stand with the pup. All the pulling and jumping are just you letting the dog do those things. No dog is born trained, you have to teach them. If you caught and acclimated a wolf or coyote to life in the house right now and you snapped a leash on him, he'd probably pull you. It's not natural for a dog not to. And jumping up is an act of endearment. Watch puppies around an older dog. They all run to his face and lick it. It's your dog's way of saying he loves you and telling you how much you likes you.
This is what I would do. For the whining, save yourself a ton of hassle and get a SportDOG No Bark 6. I've had a few bark collars and this one is bar far the most effective I've dealt with. It's on a graduating stimulation pattern that resets after thirty seconds. So, if your dog whines he gets bumped, but it's a very low level. If he whines again within a half minute he gets bumped again with a little more umph. If he whines again within a half minute he gets it again with even more umph. After half a minute with no vibration sensed by the collar, it resets to the lowest intenisty. Retails around here for $50.
For the pulling, get a prong collar from a local pet store. Now, these things look toturous, but they're not. They look like it's going to punchure the dog's neck, but they don't. To ease your mind, put it around your forearm, hook it to a lead and have your wife give a couple firm pulls. It's uncomfortable, but not painful. To get a better idea of how a dog feels it, maybe put it on your forearm, over a shirt sleeve. When I'm helping people train their dogs I tell them these collars will cut a dog's weight by 2/3 often times. By that, I mean if you're working a dog that is 60 pounds and put this collar on him, often times he becomes jello and it's lik working a dog that is 20 pounds, especially a softer dog like I'd imagine your Setter is. The key is to not pull very hard and to only do quick tugs and to NOT keep the lead tight. If he gets to the end of the lead, time it and give a firm pop of the lead. If he tries it again, do it again. After a little of this he'll try real hard not to reach the end of the lead. Now, a lot of folks think this collar works because it hurts the dog so much when he gets to the end of the lead that he wants no more to do with that pain. That's not right. This collar reaches the dog on a more primal level. When puppies start getting out of control, what do the older dogs do? They put their mouth ont he dog's neck. Why is scruffing a dog a good correction without hurting him? Because that contact to the neck is a way of speaking to a dog so he'll understand. The prong collar simulates you biting the dog's neck and he gets the point right away. Maybe look up some YouTube videos of it. Bob Wehel used one in his training. One last thing to remember - very important - is to stay away from the quick release models. They'll come apart when a dog hits the end of a lead and your dog will be long gone.
For the jumping, a lot of people will knee a dog. That's the most popular, but that doesn't keep them from jumping up on your side and I've not found it to be too terribly effective. I'll sometimes grab their front paws and squeeze them, but they'll start to move their paws around to keep you from grabbing them. What I do is step on their back feet. It usually dosn't take much because most dogs don't like their feet messed with anyhow. For an overly excited dog that may move before I can get to his feet, I'll sometimes just sweep my foot under their feet and they go tumbling down. Just a time or two of that and they really get the picture. If he jumps on you from behind, just kick your heals backwards so he gets the idea you don't want him back there. If you'd rather take a more holistic approach, another very good way to get him to not jump is totally ignore him. I know it sounds simple, but try it. If he jumps on you, put your hands behind your back and look off to the side. Just wait. He jumps because he wants you to put your hands on him. If everytime he jumps, you put your hands on him to force him down then you're training him to jump up on you by rewarding him with contact and attention. Once you've ignored him and stood there for a minute, he'll drop to the ground. Immediately bend over and love him up! If he even acts like he's going to jump back up, take your hands off of him and quit showing him attention. Pretty soon when you walk through the door he'll run right up to you and just stand there.
I'll just touch on one more thing. When you're working with your dog on ANYTHING, try to remember not to correct the action, but the mindset. Think of it like this: If you correct him when he does something it is like clipping the weed off flush with the ground. If you can read him and correct him the minute he decides he's going to do something, it's like pulling the root up with the weed. They don't speak English, but consider if you had a son and he got mad at a boy at school for taking his Crayons. He said, "I'm going in there tomorrow and I'm going to punch him right in the face!" Would it be better to correct him as soon as he said it and made up his mind he's going to do it, or would it be more effective to wait until he actually did punch him in the face then correct him for it?
For the mouthing, don't sweat it too much. He's a pup yet and will come into his own with age. It's like a baby has to have a pacifier and a bottle and wants to stick everything into their mouth. Not so much when you get older.
Hope this helps.
It honestly sounds like you don't take a stand with the pup. All the pulling and jumping are just you letting the dog do those things. No dog is born trained, you have to teach them. If you caught and acclimated a wolf or coyote to life in the house right now and you snapped a leash on him, he'd probably pull you. It's not natural for a dog not to. And jumping up is an act of endearment. Watch puppies around an older dog. They all run to his face and lick it. It's your dog's way of saying he loves you and telling you how much you likes you.
This is what I would do. For the whining, save yourself a ton of hassle and get a SportDOG No Bark 6. I've had a few bark collars and this one is bar far the most effective I've dealt with. It's on a graduating stimulation pattern that resets after thirty seconds. So, if your dog whines he gets bumped, but it's a very low level. If he whines again within a half minute he gets bumped again with a little more umph. If he whines again within a half minute he gets it again with even more umph. After half a minute with no vibration sensed by the collar, it resets to the lowest intenisty. Retails around here for $50.
For the pulling, get a prong collar from a local pet store. Now, these things look toturous, but they're not. They look like it's going to punchure the dog's neck, but they don't. To ease your mind, put it around your forearm, hook it to a lead and have your wife give a couple firm pulls. It's uncomfortable, but not painful. To get a better idea of how a dog feels it, maybe put it on your forearm, over a shirt sleeve. When I'm helping people train their dogs I tell them these collars will cut a dog's weight by 2/3 often times. By that, I mean if you're working a dog that is 60 pounds and put this collar on him, often times he becomes jello and it's lik working a dog that is 20 pounds, especially a softer dog like I'd imagine your Setter is. The key is to not pull very hard and to only do quick tugs and to NOT keep the lead tight. If he gets to the end of the lead, time it and give a firm pop of the lead. If he tries it again, do it again. After a little of this he'll try real hard not to reach the end of the lead. Now, a lot of folks think this collar works because it hurts the dog so much when he gets to the end of the lead that he wants no more to do with that pain. That's not right. This collar reaches the dog on a more primal level. When puppies start getting out of control, what do the older dogs do? They put their mouth ont he dog's neck. Why is scruffing a dog a good correction without hurting him? Because that contact to the neck is a way of speaking to a dog so he'll understand. The prong collar simulates you biting the dog's neck and he gets the point right away. Maybe look up some YouTube videos of it. Bob Wehel used one in his training. One last thing to remember - very important - is to stay away from the quick release models. They'll come apart when a dog hits the end of a lead and your dog will be long gone.
For the jumping, a lot of people will knee a dog. That's the most popular, but that doesn't keep them from jumping up on your side and I've not found it to be too terribly effective. I'll sometimes grab their front paws and squeeze them, but they'll start to move their paws around to keep you from grabbing them. What I do is step on their back feet. It usually dosn't take much because most dogs don't like their feet messed with anyhow. For an overly excited dog that may move before I can get to his feet, I'll sometimes just sweep my foot under their feet and they go tumbling down. Just a time or two of that and they really get the picture. If he jumps on you from behind, just kick your heals backwards so he gets the idea you don't want him back there. If you'd rather take a more holistic approach, another very good way to get him to not jump is totally ignore him. I know it sounds simple, but try it. If he jumps on you, put your hands behind your back and look off to the side. Just wait. He jumps because he wants you to put your hands on him. If everytime he jumps, you put your hands on him to force him down then you're training him to jump up on you by rewarding him with contact and attention. Once you've ignored him and stood there for a minute, he'll drop to the ground. Immediately bend over and love him up! If he even acts like he's going to jump back up, take your hands off of him and quit showing him attention. Pretty soon when you walk through the door he'll run right up to you and just stand there.
I'll just touch on one more thing. When you're working with your dog on ANYTHING, try to remember not to correct the action, but the mindset. Think of it like this: If you correct him when he does something it is like clipping the weed off flush with the ground. If you can read him and correct him the minute he decides he's going to do something, it's like pulling the root up with the weed. They don't speak English, but consider if you had a son and he got mad at a boy at school for taking his Crayons. He said, "I'm going in there tomorrow and I'm going to punch him right in the face!" Would it be better to correct him as soon as he said it and made up his mind he's going to do it, or would it be more effective to wait until he actually did punch him in the face then correct him for it?
For the mouthing, don't sweat it too much. He's a pup yet and will come into his own with age. It's like a baby has to have a pacifier and a bottle and wants to stick everything into their mouth. Not so much when you get older.
Hope this helps.
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RoostersMom
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Re: Not sure what to do with our male setter
My Vizsla is a whiner. Always has been, I'm thinking he'll die that way. He's a great dog in every other way though, so I don't stress too much about it, though I don't like it. He whines proportional to the amount of free time he has. When he's in active "training mode" - ie, running 5-8 miles twice per day and swimming, he is a lot less likely to do anything I don't like. A tired pup is a good pup. It does sound like yours is lacking in the obedience training - he shouldn't pull at all on the leash - and at a year old, it's just plumb dangerous to let him jump on people. Those behaviors can all be trained out of him.
However, I think an aggressive exercise program will help you as well with his behaviors (and the whining). My dog very seldom whines during hunting season because he's too tired. As for whining and crying when he's separated from you - exercise and obedience training (that will help his confidence and neediness) will serve you well.
However, I think an aggressive exercise program will help you as well with his behaviors (and the whining). My dog very seldom whines during hunting season because he's too tired. As for whining and crying when he's separated from you - exercise and obedience training (that will help his confidence and neediness) will serve you well.
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Cajun Casey
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Re: Not sure what to do with our male setter
Find him a new home. You will never like him.
Re: Not sure what to do with our male setter
I'm wit cajun, move hm now. Save yourself time and money.
Re: Not sure what to do with our male setter
I'm with stoneface. Great advice. Rymans take a while to mature and some behavior changes will come with it. It took mine 3 years and it was well worth the wait.
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ll_irishsetters
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Re: Not sure what to do with our male setter
It sounds like your dog may have separation anxiety.
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birddogger
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Re: Not sure what to do with our male setter
Most of the things you have said sound pretty normal to me and simple basic obedience training and patience is good advise. But with no offense intended, from the tone of your post, finding him a good home may be the best for the dog and for you. When I started reading your post and you referring to him as the "SOB" for normal puppy behavior sent a red flag up to me. Again, my comments are not meant to be personal, but these types of dogs are not for everybody. If you keep him, I think changing your attitude toward the dog would be a big first step.
Charlie
Charlie
Re: Not sure what to do with our male setter
My thoughts exactly and couldn't have said it as wellbirddogger wrote:Most of the things you have said sound pretty normal to me and simple basic obedience training and patience is good advise. But with no offense intended, from the tone of your post, finding him a good home may be the best for the dog and for you. When I started reading your post and you referring to him as the "SOB" for normal puppy behavior sent a red flag up to me. Again, my comments are not meant to be personal, but these types of dogs are not for everybody. If you keep him, I think changing your attitude toward the dog would be a big first step.
Charlie
Ezzy
Re: Not sure what to do with our male setter
Some people like the idea of owning a dog, more then they like the realities of owning a dog.
Unfortunately the little beasts do not pop out trained, they are annoying, destructive, and time consuming. They are just dogs, with little dog brains, they do dog things and will continue to do those things until we take the time to train them to bend to our will.
Sounds like this dog just isn't the right dog for you. And I agree with the others who suggested you consider finding him another home. You might be best served with an adult dog the next time around, you will know what it is already and can avoid some of the characteristics that you really cannot live with.
No sense making yourself and the dog crazy....
Fuzz
Unfortunately the little beasts do not pop out trained, they are annoying, destructive, and time consuming. They are just dogs, with little dog brains, they do dog things and will continue to do those things until we take the time to train them to bend to our will.
Sounds like this dog just isn't the right dog for you. And I agree with the others who suggested you consider finding him another home. You might be best served with an adult dog the next time around, you will know what it is already and can avoid some of the characteristics that you really cannot live with.
No sense making yourself and the dog crazy....
Fuzz
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roaniecowpony
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Re: Not sure what to do with our male setter
This reminds me of a guy I met when looking for a pointer. He previously owned a GSP that his son loved and that he hated. The guy ranted about how much he hated that dog like it was still there. The dog lived to be 14 just to spite that guy. I wouldn't have wanted to go thru what he claims he did.
It sounds like you're looking for validation that getting rid of the dog is ok. It is. And I don't think it means you aren't cut out for dog ownership. But you would foolish to go down that same exact path again. Maybe look into finding a more mature dog and a breed not known for those traits. There's plenty out there.
It sounds like you're looking for validation that getting rid of the dog is ok. It is. And I don't think it means you aren't cut out for dog ownership. But you would foolish to go down that same exact path again. Maybe look into finding a more mature dog and a breed not known for those traits. There's plenty out there.