Atv handling in field trials

[higghs]

The AKC now allows atv handling in field trials. Application for the permit requires submission of info from a physician which is reviewed and approved by the legal arm of the AKC. In order to handle in a trial, the sponsoring club and the brace mate must give their approval. If no bracemate is available the dog must run alone. The handler must follow strict and delineated behavior.
What is the general feeling towards this policy and what clubs allow it?

[AZ Brittany Guy]

More importantly, will the NFS, BLM or STL allow it? Will they have to abide by the law and accommodate the handicapped?

[shags]

The land management authorities have the final say on whether ATVs are permitted on their grounds. Accessibility doesn't necessarily mean to allow use of ATVs.
In my state, we can't even have ATVs in the state-owned grounds' parking lot unless they are licensed (plated) for on road use. And if they have that, if even one tire is off the gravel of the lot, the owner is subject to a fine.

[jimbo&rooster]

my gut says it would be good for the sport and get some folks involved who otherwise wouldnt. But from some where down deep I am not overly thrilled about the idea. For some reason, an ATV doesn't fit my vision of a field trial.

Jim

[RayGubernat]

Folks have been trying to use the ADA to ram ATV handling down the throats of the field trial community for quite a few years now.
Many of them simply do not want to go to the expense and inconvenience of owning a horse.

However there are some folks who are truly limited in their mobility. It is beyond me how a person who is truly limited in their mobility can hope to run a dog with even a modest hope of success, in a trial, but, the ADA is the law of the land, and everyone needs to dance around it.

The AKC cannot say that a truly handicapped individual cannot be accommodated, because to do that would be in conflict with the ADA. If the original post is accurate, I applaud what they have done and believe it to be a reasoned response.

If someone is determined enough to jump through all the hoops, then they really, really want to do it and I say let it be. The one person who is willing to go through all of that is, by far, the exception.

If however, someone is looking for a cheap and easy alternative to owning a horse or is looking to get a competitive advantage over a walking bracemate, I hope the various sanctioning organizations and clubs will take a lesson from the NBHA.

As I understand it, folks, especially pros, were getting "excuses" so they could handle multiple dogs off 4 wheelers instead of walking and pretty soon, everyone was racing around on 4 wheelers. It apparently got to be a joke.

RayG

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

Its just another way for the AKC to expand participation. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

Its just another way for the AKC to expand participation. Nothing more, nothing less.

Trust me, AKC wasn't the one pushing for it. I believe they were sued.

Doug

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

Its just another way for the AKC to expand participation. Nothing more, nothing less.

Trust me, AKC wasn't the one pushing for it. I believe they were sued.

Doug

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

Its just another way for the AKC to expand participation. Nothing more, nothing less.

Trust me, AKC wasn't the one pushing for it. I believe they were sued.

Doug[/quote


No, trust me, they sold out.

Ok, let's hear how they sold out to get a few handicapped handlers.

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

"sold out" may not have been the best choice of words but read my first post......

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

"sold out" may not have been the best choice of words but read my first post......

I did. I'm still lost.

Doug

[S&J gsp]

I think it would be good but I also think if it is a walking event the ATV needs to be governed to 4 mph and a horse back event should governed to 10 mph. I not talking about going on the word of a handler I'm talking about a factory installed govner. And AKC needs to send a Rep around to spot check that way everybody is equal. With that said if the ATV causes interference they should be sent to the truck without finishing there brace. Let's face it some folks will do anything to win cutting a dog off or cutting of a horse would be two things that would send you home.

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

I'm not sure about the need for a governor. If you walk or ride too fast the judges usually stop watching anyway.

Doug

[shags]

This is all more or less water under the bridge anyway, since the issue is old news. It's at least a year old, probably more. A big stink was made about it, for AKC trials, in Michigan brittany trials. I don't know how it worked out for those folks, but for all the saber rattling ( or cane rattling as the case may be) it seems to have died out.

Accessibility doesn't mean allowing the handicapped to do whatever they wish in order to get around. If that were the case, ATVs and helicopters would have to be allowed in the post office lobby

I think most participants would accept a truly handicapped bracemate's efforts to get his dog around. But I think any cheater would soon suffer some consequences from his FT community, ADA or no.

[Winchey]

"Accessibility doesn't mean allowing the handicapped to do whatever they wish in order to get around. If that were the case, ATVs and helicopters would have to be allowed in the post office lobby "

I am not sure how they can apply this to a sport, it is not like you are allowed to use an ATV in the NFL if you are injured or disabled or something.

I have a real problem with the ATV's since I am in coverdog stuff, you couldn't hear the bell, it just wouldn't work, you couldn't get an ATV around half of our courses up here anyway. But I could care less if someone used a golf cart in a walking or horseback trial on suitable grounds. It is just the noise of them that is unwelcome to me at a trial.

[Ms. Cage]

We had a gentleman handle from a motorized wheel chair at the NAVHDA Invitational last year during his field work.. When he approached the dog he got out of the wheel chair and used croches.

[RayGubernat]

I think it would be good but I also think if it is a walking event the ATV needs to be governed to 4 mph and a horse back event should governed to 10 mph. I not talking about going on the word of a handler I'm talking about a factory installed govner. And AKC needs to send a Rep around to spot check that way everybody is equal. With that said if the ATV causes interference they should be sent to the truck without finishing there brace. Let's face it some folks will do anything to win cutting a dog off or cutting of a horse would be two things that would send you home.

This is a little off topic, but I have to say that if you are walking at a field trial at 4 MPH, that is awfully fast. Waaay faster than I for one, care to walk on anything other than a sidewalk. And 10 MPH for a horseback stake is about twice as fast as they go at an American Field All age stake, unless they are cantering to a find. In AKC the horse is "supposed to be" at a flat walk which is, I believe, typically no more than 5-6 MPH.

You ARE correct in what I believe is your basic assumption... that folks will go as fast as they can get away with.

The one rule that needs to be enforced by the judges, when situations like this arise is the rule that the handler with the conveyance must never push or outrun the other handler. That stops ALL the BS.

I can tell you from personal experience that handling from horseback(and doing it right) when braced with a walking handler is usually NOT as lot of fun. It is hard on the handler, hard on the horse and hard on the dog. It has happened to me a few times and anymore, I will just get off and walk also. There is always someone who is more than happy to ride that brace, so if I do need the horse to go get the dog, it will be there. If I am walking, the dog will tend to pull it in and work closer and that turns out better for all concerned.

RayG

[ultracarry]

I won't run against someone handling off an ATV..... NoL a big deal. I did it twice and now I will always refuse and run as a bye dog.

If they want to handle off foot, I will slow way down. If they want to handle off horse, all the better. If they want to handle off a quad, good for them. But I'm not going to deal with the extra noise, dust, excess speed, and having my dog haull butt off the backside of the course because she thinks were having fun.

[S&J gsp]

Ray you got the just of my post. Ultra I run about every weekend I trail against someone who is on an ATV it is a little hard on the dog the first time or two but I have fun doing it. The only real advantage I see is if it a foot trail than the handler on the ATV has an advantage over the handler on foot just in the line and f sight

[Chukar12]

I am at field trials to relax...and though I am not fond of the sound of an atv harshing the mellow of my klip klop...klik klop... A conflict over a person's disability is an argument with too many legal and morale fronts for me to battle when I am off. I often train off an atv for convenience, so my dogs adjust just fine.

I am opposed to expanding the influence of ATV's beyond what has been settled in a trying episode to reach an agreement for disabled participants. Most western grounds are too rough for reasonable access or are restricted by the government or private owners in their use. I cannot speak for the east.

As far as participation, I believe horse back field trials will either survive, or they won't, and accommodating modern amenities will not be a savior. In the venues I covet personally, horses and the mode of transport they can provide are too big a part of the draw. A drastic change to that I suspect will cause as many to leave as it will bring in. As we all know, a number of other options have been born through the recent decades to accommodate those that desire a different format, I do think it would behoove breed clubs to recognize those venues as they do their association with the AKC.

I will note this..we do not see many folks who start in American Field horseback trials defecting to AKC or other events (though there are some), watering down the horseback trial experience will more likely cause the hardcore to band closer with the AF venues and format and move away from AKC support ... and frankly, though it probably serves no purpose for the AKC brass to be demonstrative about it, the true AKC horseback crowd is probably a pretty darned small constituency in the scope of the organization.

[Gertie]

ATV use = weeds/compaction. Weeds/compaction = poor bird habitat. Poor bird habitat = less birds. Less birds = less birds to hunt. Less birds to hunt = less participation in the sport. Personally, I don't think it's a good idea. Some of the NSTRA folks I've talked to said that the introduction of ATVs has resulted in less publicly managed lands and private land owners allowing trials on their grounds. I know there's not an easy solution but this seems like a big step in the wrong direction.

[AZ Brittany Guy]

Another angle to look at. It's a sport. Can ADA force the NBA, NFL etc. etc. to accommodate the handicapped? There was a time when ADA tried to force golf course owners to allow one person golf carts on their greens. Golf courses in my neck of the woods got around it by stating it would negatively (financially) impact their asset i.e. the golf course. Their comes a time when you have to turn over your dog handling to a unimpaired friend or pro.

[roaniecowpony]

I just glanced at the ADA and found this:

Sec. 12187. Exemptions for private clubs and religious organizations
The provisions of this subchapter shall not apply to private clubs or establishments exempted from
coverage under title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (42 U.S.C. 2000-a(e)) or to religious
organizations or entities controlled by religious organizations, including places of worship.

Aren't the AKC and NSTRA, AFSDA, etc., all private clubs?

[Chukar12]

The private club argument is subject to the extent that the organization is open to the public. We're the fight took place in the Abc and the akc neither club is very restrictive.

[Neil]

I am more informed about this than I wish, seems I was on an e-mail distribution list.

Had I been consulted by AKC, I would have suggested ETVs, the electric golf carts and UVs, they would eliminated most objections.

The guy that filed the lawsuit is an obnoxious nut.

To be clear, I am against it, gas or electric.

Neil

[hi-tailyn]

We had a handler on a ATV at last years GSPCA Amateur Nationals that ran his dog as a bye. He kept ATV at a horse flat walk pace, and all seemed to go ok. Once his dog pointed, he got off and walked to work his dog.
I don't think I would run my dogs braced with a ATV handler. I train mostly off ATV and they respond to the sound. Would be a little rougher than off the quiet horse.

[ultracarry]

We had a handler on a ATV at last years GSPCA Amateur Nationals that ran his dog as a bye. He kept ATV at a horse flat walk pace, and all seemed to go ok. Once his dog pointed, he got off and walked to work his dog.
I don't think I would run my dogs braced with a ATV handler. I train mostly off ATV and they respond to the sound. Would be a little rougher than off the quiet horse.

That's who I always get braced with.........