Animal Control Officer!?!?

[USAF CAVEMAN]

So i just got this GSP and have had him for 5 days. I got a notice on my door stating that they had a report that a puppy may have been denied water, food, and shelter. I called the animal control office furious and had a long conversation with the lady and they have arranged a Animal Control Officer to come over tom after i get off of work. These assumptions simply arent true and the lady was surprised to here that i have another dog?? I have had this dog 5 days i havent even had time to neglect him. Is it possible that the breeder called them to verify he is in a good home? The breeder asked me for my address, phone number, etc. I thought about telling animal control that the Officer could come in my house when he gets a warrant but i figure if i show them that this dog is takin care of better than most humans than any future complaints by said person will be dismissed. I put my dogs outside for 1-2 hours and let them play to work off some energy while i was taking care of my 8 month old daughter. Any advice?

[mountaindogs]

That is ridiculous! Wow. I hate the idea of letting people in without a warrant. If you other dog is at all pit related be careful. Otherwise I'd be sure to HAVE water available outside and in if they come look. Food is not free choice in my house. Ever. My dogs would eat themselves to death. I hope it wasn't the breeder. AKC requires breeders to keep name and address and I always ask for it and try to keep in touch but not for THAT reason. Just so I can help if needed and hear how things are going.

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

I doubt it was the breeder but stranger things have happened. Its usually an upset neighbor.

[Cajun Casey]

Do not let anyone on your property without a warrant. Is it an actual law enforcement agency or some humane group? Don't get your dog seized!

[USAF CAVEMAN]

The exact words on the notice is, "My office received a request to check the welfare of a puppy for food, water, and shelter. Please call me in regard to this matter." The fact that it states that there was a request to check makes me wonder...My other dog is a maltipoo lol (wife's dog) I really dont want to let them in without a warrant. Has anyone had to deal with this? I find it as ridiculous as me calling CPS on my neighbor because i felt there kids were playing outside to long. :roll:

[USAF CAVEMAN]

Do not let anyone on your property without a warrant. Is it an actual law enforcement agency or some humane group? Don't get your dog seized!

Its Animal Care and Adoption Center for the city i live in. What are the pros/cons to letting them in or keeping them out?

[jimbo&rooster]

I feel your pain dude.... the head of the local Humane shelter lives about 1/4mi up the road from me. She showed up last spring with the law to try to seize my 2 livestock guard dogs. She claimed that they were aggressive and would chase people down the road who rode by on bicycles and chased cars, and that they didn't have water or food available. While she was here she demanded to see my horses in the barn, and demanded to see the bird dogs in my kennel.

Long story short, I showed she and the officer that the dogs in question, had plenty of water available, had plenty of shelter and pointed out to the officer that since our farm encompasses both sides of the road and we were grazing cows on one side and sheep on the other our dogs were simply doing their job. the deputy himself tolher that she had no business in my barn and that the bird dogs looked to be in good shape from where he stood.

My point is, let them in let them see that you are taking care of your dogs the best you can, and it is likely that they will not get overlyexcited next time. The same lady has filed three complaints since and I have basically gotten a call and a heads up from the sheriffs dept letting me know.

I would make sure they dont come in unless they either have an officer or a warrant.

good luck
Jim

[DonF]

Hey, no problem, invite them to drop in whenever anyone is home. If they drop by and help themselves to your place when your not home is another matter. That did happen to me once years ago. Guy with an illegal scanner here in town reported I was telling someone on the phone I was shooting eagle's. Once I found out what they were talking about, I knew what it was. I was shooting eagle's with a camera. Fish cop got really excited, though he got him a big one. Came on the place when no one was home and went into some buildings, neighbor saw him do it. I called the state police and told them it better not happen again; he want's to look, stop by and he can look at whatever he wants. SOB parked all night up the hill from the house looking for me to leave early to shoot some more eagles. At day break I got a call from their dispatcher asking if he could stop in. Told them sure. Less than two min he pulled in the driveway. Let him look at anything he wanted and showed him the shot's I got of the eagles, photo's! That ended that. They told the guy with the scanner he'd better not get caught listening in on any other phone calls. They do what that guy did they can get a warrant. Call ahead and they can see anything they want.

Hey, invite them over!

[Sharon]

There are always folks around ready to call whoever about this or that. I let them in and show that everything is fine. I had a call once about my dog being outside too long. It was a ceramic dog we keep up against the fence for extra safety in the back yard.

I called on my neighbor once after getting no decent answer when I talked to him. He's a long distance trucker who lives alone , and who locks his two dogs in a small room with water and food and leaves for 3-7 days. If water bowl is spilled day1 or all food is eaten .................... The Aninmal Control folks said there was nothing they could do.

[Winchey]

My dad is an animal control officer, basically whenever someone complains he has to go talk to the person the complaint was made about or leave a note if they are not their, usually barking complaints, if the dog isn't barking when he goes there, and isn't barking when he drives by once in a while there is nothing he can do. 9 times out of 10 it is just a neighbour with a vandetta and it is just your word against theirs. If it is abuse or cruelty SPCA would have to be involved and they would have to do an investigation and what not. If the dog has water when outside, is in decent heath and not living in a cesspool, they wouldn't bother you in my town, don't know what it is like elsewhere.

[gotpointers]

Don't deal with a non law enforcement person period. Humane society and copycat group's are not certified law enforcement. Post no treaspass signs also all around the perimeter. If you don't have them up and take action in your own yard on a possible threat you can get into legal problems defending your own yard. Make it hard on them so you can make them look stupid in the eyes of the courts and prevent further harassment on law abiding citizens. Even when you have nothing to hide.

[Cajun Casey]

WHAT TO DO WHEN ANIMAL CONTROL COMES KNOCKING
by George J. Eigenhauser Jr.
(Mr. Eigenhauser is an attorney at law licensed in the State of California since
1979 and practices in the areas of civil litigation and estate planning)
ANTI-DOG ENFORCEMENT - What Every Dog Owner Needs to Know
Dog owners and ethical breeders are increasingly being targeted. Disgruntled
neighbors may retaliate against dog owners and may other reasons drive
complaints, and anti-dog enforcement action, which many times may be conducted
illegally. The following text outlines methods of inquiry and enforcement which
may be used by local officials in attempts to enforce ordinances in your
community and suggested techniques of response. These techniques are entirely
legal and based upon the rights of citizens as stated by the U.S. Constitution.
No breeder or rescuer wants to have Animal Control come knocking on the
door...but if they do, it will help if you know what your options are. Remember,
Animal Control is law enforcement. They are bound by the same Constitution as
any other government agency. To protect yourself, you need to know your rights.
These vary slightly one jurisdiction to another, but some general principles
apply. One rule applies everywhere: never physically resist an officer.
When Animal Control is At Your Door:
1. Do not let them in, no matter how much they ask. Animal Control generally
cannot enter your home without a warrant, or your permission. While regular
police can enter in emergency situations when human life is at risk (i.e. they
hear gunshots and a scream inside), there are few, if any, situations in which
Animal Control can enter your home without a warrant. Simply tell them they may
not come in.
2. If you let them in, anything they find in "plain sight" can be used against
you. In some circumstances Animal Control officers, unable to find a legitimate
reason to make an arrest, have reported building or zoning violations. This may
include caging you attached to a wall without a building permit, that extra
outlet in the puppy room, having more pets than allowed by zoning, even
extension cords in violation of fire codes! No matter how clean your kennel, if
they want to find a violation, they will.
3. Do not talk to them from an open doorway. Step outside an close (and lock if
possible) the door behind you. This is necessary because:
A) Anything they see through the open door is "plain sight" and may be the basis
for an arrest, or probable cause for a search warrant.
B) If they make an arrest or even feel threatened they are usually permitted to
search for weapons in your immediate area. Do you keep a baseball bat inside the
door for your protection? Even if you don't, once they step inside to look, they
are in your home and may continue to search.
C) It is hard not to be intimidated by someone in authority. Some animal control
is even done by local police, who carry guns. It is easy for them to get "in
your face", causing you to back up into the home. Once you go in, it will be
interpreted as an invitation to follow.
4. If they claim to have a warrant, demand to see it. In general, a search
warrant must be signed by a judge. A warrant to search your home for dogs does
not include an inventory of your jewelry box. A warrant to search your kennel in
the garage or in the barn does not include a search of your home.
5. In some locations dog owners may have obtained special "breeder or rescue
permits" that stipulate that Animal Control has your permission to enter at any
time. If you have signed such a permit they still cannot enter against your
wishes, since you can revoke the permission at any time. However, if you refuse
permission it may allow them to cancel your permit, so you have to weigh the
consequences.
6. Warning - anyone in lawful possession of the premises may be able to give
permission for a search. Make sure your roommate, babysitter, dog-sitter,
housekeeper and other know that they should not let animal control into your
home or on your property (i.e. backyard, garage, etc.).
How to Handle Questions:
1. Don’t answer any questions beyond identifying yourself for the officer.
Anything you say to the officer in your defense cannot be used in court
(hearsay). Anything you say that is harmful to you will be used in court
(confessions are not considered hearsay). You cannot win, except by remaining
silent.
2. Be polite but firm. Do not argue, bad-mouth, curse, threaten or try to
intimidate the officer.
3. Do not lie to an officer, ever. However, it is NOT a lie to exercise your
right to remain silent.
4. Keep your hands in plain sight. People have been shot by police when common
objects, such as a wallet, were mistaken for a gun.
5. Do not touch the officer in any way. Do not physically resist an officer, no
matter how unlawful his or her actions.
6. Don't try to tell your side of the story, it cannot help.
7. Do not threaten the officer that you plan to file a complaint for their
actions.
8. If the questioning persists, demand to speak to a lawyer first. Repeat as
necessary.
Gathering the Facts:
1. Get the name and badge number of each officer involved. If he/she does not
volunteer this information, ask.
2. Ask the name of the agency they represent. Different agencies have different
enforcement responsibilities.
3. Ask why they are there. Request the factual basis of the complaint and the
identity of the complainant.
4. If they have other people with them (Humane Society, press, etc.) get the
names and organizations for all present.
5. Note the names (and addresses) of any witnesses to the encounter.
6. If you are physically injured by an officer, you should take photographs of
the injuries immediately, but do not forego proper medical treatment first.
7. Write down all of the information, as well as the date and time of the
incident immediately, while details are fresh in your mind.
8. If you rights are violated, file a complaint with the appropriate body.
If You Are Arrested:
1. Remain silent. Answer no questions until you have consulted with a lawyer.
2. Don't "explain" anything. You will have time for explanations after you have
talked to a lawyer.
3. Within a reasonable time they must allow you to make a phone call to get a
lawyer or arrange bail. They are not allowed to listen to your phone call to
your attorney, but they may "monitor" the rooms for "your protection". Do not
say anything you do not want them to overhear; save that until after you are out
on bail. Telephone Inquiries or Threats:
You may receive telephone inquiries concerning the number of dogs you own and
whether any dogs or puppies are for sale. Other questions may also be asked.
Your response should be to inquire "Are you interested in a puppy?". If the
answer is "yes", ask that person for his/her name, address and phone number.
Suggest that you or a responsible breeder will contact that person at a more
convenient time for you.
If the answer is friendly and genuinely inquisitive, invite the person to look
at your puppies.
If the question asked is "What is the price of each puppy?", simply say that
puppies of this type are being sold for between "X" and "Y" dollars. Never say
that you are selling them.
If the question asked is "Are these your puppies?", you should ask, "Why do you
want to know?".
If your conversation indicates that the person is representing the county
clerk's office or allegedly representing an official body, ask the caller for:
-Full name, title and phone number
-Agency's full name and full address
-Their supervisor's full name and phone number
-Nature of the inquiry (what it is about)
-Why the inquiry is being made
--How your name and phone number were obtained
-Ask that all future questions from that agency be submitted in writing
Preventative Measures:
1. Always keep you kennel clean and take good care of your animals.
2. Consider a P.O. Box or other address for business cards and advertisements.
Keep descriptions of your location general (i.e. Southern California, rather
than the name of the city where you live). The internet can provide anonymity
for initial contacts. You can even buy a "remote prefix" to get a number from a
nearby community forwarded to your phone or to a voice mail. Avoid local
newspaper classifieds, they are often monitored.
3. Screen any potential puppy buyers carefully. Always be alert that they may be
Animal Control or even Animal Rights working under cover.
4. Don't allow strangers into your home until you have screened them.
5. Be fair and honest in all of your dealings, and be on good terms with your
neighbors. Most animal control contacts are complaint-driven. Some complaints
may arise as harassment by people with unrelated grievances against you. It may
be a disgruntled dog buyer or a cranky neighbor who doesn't like you parking in
front of his house.
6. Anything about you that can be observed in "plain sight" from the street or
sidewalk can become probably cause for a warrant. Even areas on your property
open to visitors can be dangerous. Be aware of which areas of your home are
visible from the outside and plan accordingly.
7. If you are confronted by Animal Control and turn them away, assume they will
be back. Use the time available to make sure everything is clean and
presentable. If you are over the limit on the number of pets, find friends who
can provide temporary shelter for your dogs.
Whatever you do, stay calm and keep your wits about you.
Just say "no", no matter what threats or promises of leniency they make.
When in doubt, say nothing and speak to a lawyer afterwards.
Permission to reprint and cross post is granted.
From ADOA Newsletter June 2008

[gotpointers]

[quote="Cajun Casey"]WHAT TO DO WHEN ANIMAL CONTROL COMES KNOCKING
by George J. Eigenhauser Jr.
]

+1

[Wildweeds]

About 20 years ago I had a litter of Springer pups I was selling for 50 bucks apeice,a coworkers parents showed up and thought they were getting one for free,when I informed them they were 50 bucks,they backpeddled and left.Two days later upon returning from work the humane society/dogcatcher truck was in my driveway,the officer was out at the kennell.Apparantly someone called in " Anonmously" about the puppies welfare. The officer said everything was good and in no way were the dogs mistreated, Shelter,fresh water and no shortage of feed as evidenced by appearance. I know it was those folks that called as they were at that point the only strangers that had come to look at them.

[DonF]

We had a woman here in town that used to call the county sheriff and make complaints all the time. But she'd never let them mention her name. That is BS! Best thing to do I guess is just ignore it, the sheriff dept will not give out names of people like that.I got turned in one time for letting a dog with parvo run loose around town. deputy got here and I took him inside to see the dog with parvo. Out cold on the couch and an IV bag hanging over him. the fact that he even showed up tell's me he doesn't know much about parvo. I got turned in, same person, for letting dogs run at large too. The b*tch saw them running on my property. It's all harassment cr*p. When they would show up, I'd let them see anything they wanted.

[RayGubernat]

DonF -

I have t6o say you have pretty decent folks in your area as far as animal control and law enforcement is concerned.

What you need to understand is that not all jurisdictions are like that.

In some areas, law enforcement's job is to arrest someone...anyone. If they cannot arrest a criminal, arresting the victim works fine...even better because they are usually under the mistaken impression that the police are there to protect them. Besides, victims don't usually become violent or resist arrest, so there is less chance of an officer getting injured than if they went after a real criminal.

Animal control in some areas is controlled by HSUS or PETA types. You are going to have trouble, no matter what, with maniacs like that.

If an animal control officer came to my door with an inquiry, I would ask them to please leave and to submit the inquiry in writing. if the came with a complaint, I would ask for a copy of the written complaint with the name and address of the complainant.

If that was not produced I would wish the officer good day. If they did not leave, I would call the state police and have them arrested for trespass.

Remember...all law enforcement personnel are government employees. I have nothing against them as individuals and have the greatest respect for the vast majority of them...BUT they are government employees and they must operate within a beauracracy that truly and honestly... does not wish to eliminate crime. If crime were truly diminished, there would be less need for law enforcement...not more and the beauracracy would shrink and be less in control. That is the exact opposite of what beauracracies do.

Those folks have a job to do and they have rules that they must follow. If there is a crime that has been committed, it is law enforcement's job to arrest someone. The operant line of reasoning for anyone, especially an honest citizen, should always be the sad truth behind the following bit of wisdom:

" We re from the government. We are here to help you."

RayG

[USAF CAVEMAN]

So just an update....the animal control officer showed up today. I was already outside when she walked up. I am pretty sure she knew the call was crap because she didnt even ask to come in. We stood out there and talked for about 20 min i told her how it was BS and she said thank you and left. In my city the Animal Control Office is an extension of the police department. She told me it was someone behind me that was complaining and said we leave out puppy outside without food, water, and shelter all day everyday. She informed me that every time they get a complain they have to show up. I understand they work for the government as do i but it upsets me that the same jackass that complains isnt getting fined for false reporting.

[shags]

Sounds like time for a nice tall hedge. With prickers.

Sometimes I leave a couple dogs in the yard while I run errands. They have access to a garage where they have doghouses if they want. I know they won't die without water in an hour or two if they happen to empty or spill their pans, but it's a concern if someone should stop by. So I bought a little plastic wading pool and put 3 or 4 inches of water in it. The dogs can't drink it all, they can't spill it, and when it's hot some of them like to wallow around in there. It needs to be cleaned every few days but it's worth the effort.

Good luck with your neighbor. I hope they only mean well.

[buckshot1]

I had this happen to me recently. It was a jerk neighbor with ulterior motives who complained. The animal control officer came by, found nothing wrong, and wrote me a report saying the dogs were very well cared for to show to the neighbor. Don't blame the animal control department. They're just doing their jobs and probably find these baseless complaints as annoying as you do. Also, I would NOT deny the officer entry without a warrant. If you don't have anything to hide, then why not let him in? A complaint from a neighbor likely gives sufficient probable cause for the officer to get a warrant if he wants one, even if the complaint is fabricated. By not letting him in, you're creating suspicion and will get less sympathy if the department decides to get a warrant. You're also creating work for the good guy who's just doing his job. Just because you can deny him entry doesn't mean you should. Just my opinion.

[deke]

We had an issue with an animal control officer. My lab is really skinny for a lab, you can see all his ribs. One of my neighbors called me in and the lady shows up with her clipboard and a picture of my dog, needless to say I was a little confused. So I answer the door and step out, to keep the dogs in. She starts going off on me about how I cant hide my dogs from her and how she has permission to look at them. I am now very confused, and tell this lady to get off my property before I call the sheriff. I walk back in shut the door on her face and proceed with my morning. About two hours later she is back, with a sheriff. I open the door, walk out and shut it behind me. Officer says that they need to see my dogs, I ask them for a warrant. They don't have one of course, so I turn around and walk back in shutting the door in both of their faces. At this time I start to figure out what's going on, so I make a phone call to my vet and have him write up sign and fax a letter to me stating that my dog was a field trial dog and he was skinny because he had to run long distances, not because of lack of food. It stated how much he ate, how much he weighed and that he was considered healthy by any standards. I get the letter and wait for them to return, I see the sheriff car pull up a hour or so later and the lady is right behind him. I walk out my front door this time with the dogs, I have them sit next to me as they walk up to my door. They walk up and hand me a warrant, it says that they need to see my dogs. I point at them and she immediately takes intrest in my little black lab, she starts baby talking him, feeling his ribs and running her hand on his back bone. She turns to me and says " he is malnourished, how much do you feed him?" I say " It depends, right now he is eating six cups of food a day, and the other dog eats two" she looks at me in disbelief and stutters " o well he must have worms then" " no ma'am he gets wormed everytime he gets his flea medicine, same as the other dog" by this time the lady is turning red in the face, and says " well something is wrong with him he is far to skinny" I looked her in the face and asked if she was a vet? She tells me no but she has been around enough abused animals to know when one is and one isn't. I laugh and pull the note out of my pocket, " here this is from my vet, his number is on the bottom if you want to call and make sure it is legit" she goes back to the car, The sheriff and I have a few laughs at the ladies expense, he complements me on having my dog in shape. She comes back and tells me that obviously she was misinformed, and I needed to feed the dog more. I said " yes ma'am maybe tommrow we will try 4 times more than what is recommended on the bag" turn around and shut the door. I still laugh about it to this day

[RayGubernat]

We had an issue with an animal control officer. My lab is really skinny for a lab, you can see all his ribs. One of my neighbors called me in and the lady shows up with her clipboard and a picture of my dog, needless to say I was a little confused. So I answer the door and step out, to keep the dogs in. She starts going off on me about how I cant hide my dogs from her and how she has permission to look at them. I am now very confused, and tell this lady to get off my property before I call the sheriff. I walk back in shut the door on her face and proceed with my morning. About two hours later she is back, with a sheriff. I open the door, walk out and shut it behind me. Officer says that they need to see my dogs, I ask them for a warrant. They don't have one of course, so I turn around and walk back in shutting the door in both of their faces. At this time I start to figure out what's going on, so I make a phone call to my vet and have him write up sign and fax a letter to me stating that my dog was a field trial dog and he was skinny because he had to run long distances, not because of lack of food. It stated how much he ate, how much he weighed and that he was considered healthy by any standards. I get the letter and wait for them to return, I see the sheriff car pull up a hour or so later and the lady is right behind him. I walk out my front door this time with the dogs, I have them sit next to me as they walk up to my door. They walk up and hand me a warrant, it says that they need to see my dogs. I point at them and she immediately takes intrest in my little black lab, she starts baby talking him, feeling his ribs and running her hand on his back bone. She turns to me and says " he is malnourished, how much do you feed him?" I say " It depends, right now he is eating six cups of food a day, and the other dog eats two" she looks at me in disbelief and stutters " o well he must have worms then" " no ma'am he gets wormed everytime he gets his flea medicine, same as the other dog" by this time the lady is turning red in the face, and says " well something is wrong with him he is far to skinny" I looked her in the face and asked if she was a vet? She tells me no but she has been around enough abused animals to know when one is and one isn't. I laugh and pull the note out of my pocket, " here this is from my vet, his number is on the bottom if you want to call and make sure it is legit" she goes back to the car, The sheriff and I have a few laughs at the ladies expense, he complements me on having my dog in shape. She comes back and tells me that obviously she was misinformed, and I needed to feed the dog more. I said " yes ma'am maybe tommrow we will try 4 times more than what is recommended on the bag" turn around and shut the door. I still laugh about it to this day

And I would bet real money that Deke would not be laughing rght now if he had not had the time to get his ducks in a row. These animal rights maniacs can come at you from every direction and the truth, or lack of it... does not bother them in any way. If the truth does not serve their purpose, they will ignore it, dismiss it or twist it to suit. Honest folks need to be prepared to defend themselves against dishonest folks.

The reason I would always insist on a written complaint is so that there is no doubt about exactly who is busting your chops. Most folks won't sign because they are afraid. That is a good thing.

Oh and for what it is worth, there are LOTS of supposedly informed folks that have no clue what a properly conditioned dog should look like. Several yeas ago, I took one of my dogs to the vet for his 3 year rabies shot. it was in late November or early December. The dog was in absolutely perfect shape and he had muscles popping out form everywhere, just no fat. I was roading him against resistance for one hour and he would pull for the entire hour and want more. The vet tech came out to weigh the dog and then went back to the inside office. the vet(whom I had never met before) came out and looked at the dog ad then went back inside. Next thing I know, the ENTIRE staff was out front with the vet. She said " Most of the dogs we see are grossly overweight and out of shape. I brought you all out here so that you could see and feel for yourselves, what dog that is the correct weight for its size and in excellent condition actually looks like." Some of the techs were shaking their heads in disbelief. When the vet asked me about how far how fast and how long the dog would run at a field trial, I saw some jaws drop. Even though they work with dogs every single day...most of them had absolutely no idea. Turns out, the vet's Dad had been a hunter and she grew up with pointers that hunted...so she knew what she was looking at.


How often is that going to happen in an urban or even suburban environment any more?

RayG

[deke]

RayG

You are absolutely correct, I would not of been laughing had she taken my dog. And we get the same treatment when we go to the vet everytime there is a new vet assistant in there. My vet takes in vet assistants right out of school for about six months, like an internship. He is very good when it comes to hunting dogs, he is big into hunting. Its not like my pup is in competition shape, we don't road him, he is just a running buddy for the old lady. But as far as labs go I would put this pup up against the best as far as stamina and speed goes.

[Wildweeds]

Which vet you use? Mine hunts too,bet its the same vet.

RayG

You are absolutely correct, I would not of been laughing had she taken my dog. And we get the same treatment when we go to the vet everytime there is a new vet assistant in there. My vet takes in vet assistants right out of school for about six months, like an internship. He is very good when it comes to hunting dogs, he is big into hunting. Its not like my pup is in competition shape, we don't road him, he is just a running buddy for the old lady. But as far as labs go I would put this pup up against the best as far as stamina and speed goes.

[deke]

Squibb, he is down in Sedro. I think his first name is Jason, I always call him doctor squibb though haha

[Wildweeds]

not same guy,mine is Todd Perry in Bellingham, WSU schooled as was his dad who started the practice in 1963,their family is from the palouse.we've been going there since 1966.

Squibb, he is down in Sedro. I think his first name is Jason, I always call him doctor squibb though haha