amateur handling

[vols fan]

This is a take off from the top notch thread. Probably a question more for judges . What do you think is the most common mistake made by am. handlers. I would ask this at trials to judges at the end of a trial as I was trying to gather as much info as possible. I'm sure my FC got me thru more stakes than I got him thru. I would hear that most judges think an amateur is less likely to let the dog do his thing, afraid they would get out of pocket. Too much control which took away from overall performance. Luckily my boy always knew where I was so I just shut up , an occasional sing out to let him know I was around, other than that it was his show. What are your thoughts? Tony

[shags]

Couple things that seem fairly common...

They don't trust their dogs and it shows in overhandling and nagging the dog to death.

And/or, they seem like they've never seen a bird dog work before; clueless about reading their dogs. Dog's mousing, and the handler is all "Easy! Easy!" And getting all worked up. Or the dog is fixing to take one for a ride, and the handler just watches silently, never opening his mouth to try to keep the dog out of trouble.

[Chukar12]

I think there are a lot of degrees of this that get lumped in to one question...

The most common I think is a lack of awareness; i.e. they lose a dog, don't anticipate and adjust to course changes, cannot identify trouble or opportunity well enough to avoid it or exploit it. I think part of it is hunting/dog I.Q. but mostly we make those mistakes because of experience.

Secondarily, I see a lack of "respect" between the owner and the dog. Many dogs trained and handled by pro handlers put down a clean aggressive performance, with their amateur owners they recognize the different rules and control levels and they run a muck.

To a lesser extent but near the same as above, some horseback participants have borrowed or rented horses and are not comfortable mounted. They are distracted and the trial is moving faster than on the ground than on foot. They do not know what to expect of their dog; trust breaks down, emotion creeps into their demeanor and the dog and the 'show" suffers.

[dan v]

What I see the amateur do....when they don't have their dog, they stop. All the pros will ride to the front, IMO for two reasons. 1)They trust the dog is to the front and, 2) by riding to the front it opens more area for the scout to go look for the dog. The amateurs handcuff their scouts unnecessarily.

[Elkhunter]

I really try to listen to those that are more experienced than I, I have found they are more than willing to give advice. One good piece of advice was to be aggressive and not be afraid to handle my dog.

[uthunter]

As an amature myself I have learned to trust my dog and shut my mouth unless its needed. Biggest mistake I was making was trying to micro manage my dogs every move, not allowing her to use her natural ability thus not letting the judge see what she can do. Best thing that ever happened to me was having a judge during a derby stake tell me to "shut up and let her go" at the end they used my dog.

Also, don't be afraid to ask the unknown. I've never had a question that someone wasn't happy to answer. Ive learned more about the game just hanging out and talking to people at trials.

[vols fan]

Wyndancer, you are correct as I see this a lot and have done it myself. The trial I finished my dog I did the same . Lost touch, sent scout to look and finally judge told me to move forward and let scout do their job. About five minutes later we top a rise and dog is standing well to front. So yes, keep moving forward. Same thing happened the brace before , exactly, but handler stayed put. Minutes later here comes dog with bird ,no doubt he had been standing for some time. If only he had moved forward this may not had happened.

[MillerClemsonHD]

The biggest thing I see is they don't have a purpose in what they are doing and have no plan.

When I sing to my dog it has a purpose. I see people all the time that have watched many handler constantly hollering, whistling, and everything else but the dog has no clue what is being asked and they are both confused.

I ride as many braces as I can and plan how I want to run a course. Even if that's not what happens I start with one and adjust as we go.

I have had the stopping on the course and not letting your scout go look hurt many times when I'm trying to scout for someone. I have also had people who I can't tell if they have their dog or not when I'm out looking because their singing and whistle blowing is so erratic.

Most Am's are missing the little things they could do to show their dog better. When to slow down, when to speed up, when to turn your horse, send them or when they should water and how to set up a dog to make a move on their own. The only way to improve these little things is to burn shoe leather or put in saddle time and watch others handle and learn from all of the good and the bad. Then to improve on that even further go watch handlers in other venues.

[jimbo&rooster]

Aside from what has been said, I see a lot of am handlers who aren't willing to hand it out in the wind an take a gamble. for example you havnt seen the dog for a few, know its not to the back and time is running out..... do you call the dog standing and see where your at or just ride out the last couple minutes and see what happens?

JIm

[PntrRookie]

.... do you call the dog standing and see where your at or just ride out the last couple minutes and see what happens?

I have seen plenty of amateurs, look at their watch and see there is only a couple minutes left, so the start calling and handling the pup at the end so they don't loose them. I am of the belief (to answer the question above) to push/send them to the front at the end and let them role to show the judge what they have left.

[RayGubernat]

Aside from what has been said, I see a lot of am handlers who aren't willing to hand it out in the wind an take a gamble. for example you havnt seen the dog for a few, know its not to the back and time is running out..... do you call the dog standing and see where your at or just ride out the last couple minutes and see what happens?

JIm

Greg has it right. If the dog is out to the front...somewhere... with four minutes or so in a half hour brace You have at least ten to fifteen minutes to either have the dog show up on its own or go find it. That is the four minutes left in the brace, which should see you riding forward as briskly as the judges will allow(so your scout can do likewise to the side) and the grace period at the end of the brace.

There is very little that impresses a knowledgeable judge more than a dog found standing, at time or a little after, tall and proud, out to the front. Especially if they have to ride to the find at the end of the brace. Good judges I think, truly enjoy a dog that makes them go for it a little.

THAT is what a bird dog is supposed to be doing...hunting independently and when pointed, to have the birds nailed down and be over the hill honest...waiting for you to get there. it don't get no better than that. THAT is what I want to see at the end of a brace, whether I am handling or judging.

RayG

[jimbo&rooster]

I wasnt asking a question, I was saying too many AM Handlers seem to start hacking their dog around at the end and loose 3-4mins they might have used. They aren't willing to let it ride and see what happens.

Jim

[PntrRookie]

I agree with you Jim...I knew you may have been going third person and applying that question to the (our) amateur's thinking.