Brittany Breeding: need info and a female

[isonychia]

Looking to breed my male brittany this spring and wonder what advice people have as to how to find a quality female. I live in SW Colorado so there aren't a ton of britt's around here, but would be willing to travel. Also, I am thinking of keeping a pick of the litter and selling him after I get him started, say at about a year old... not sure I'd be able to part with it, but I'm still brainstorming. I just know the breed deserves for this line to continue before I decide to fix my dog. I'll post some pics of him and more info about pedigree later, or as requested.

[jetjockey]

There's a lot of good Brit lines out there. The owner of the female typically gets to pick who they chose to breed their dog too. What does your dog have to offer that any of the many FC/AFC's don't? Hopefully that doesn't come across the wrong way, but like women, the girl usually picks her mate..

[isonychia]

Aside from his pedigree, nose, drive and balls, he is of the shorter haired Brittany variety, which seems harder to find. After no bird exposure except an odd poor flying quail I tried or robins around the neighborhood, at 6 months old I took him to work on pigeons and he pointed his 2nd bird. So in short, a very natural point. His demeanor seems more focused and intense than a lot of the brittanies I have seen, which seem a little neurotic, more like a weasel than a staunch dog.

Most importantly, who wants a dog that anyone with enough money can buy? This breed started as the poachers dog, if all you want to do with your dog is win field trials, this line could do it, if you want a dog strictly for your home, this dog could do it. If you want a dog without character, SOL!

Pedigree:

Sire: NFC Champion

Bitch: Daughter of NSTRA Haul of famer

Both are OFA good.

If anyone gets interested and lives close enough I would pm the rest of the pedigree, but honestly I'm still very much in the beginning phases. I am hoping to hunt test this spring to get some proof, but I am a broke 25 yr old that lives 5 hours away from the closest hunt tests.

[big_fish]

Please don't take this the wrong way but it sounds as if your not even sure yet I would leave the breeding up to people with a little more knowledge. Have you had his hips or elbows checked? is he E.I.C. cleared ect. and one last thing have you ever heard of the American Brittany rescue or your local Brittany rescue? these and a lot of your animal shelters are full of good idea back yard breedings. Again don't take it the wrong way I'm sure your dog is great and you will find some one with a female sooner or later But I would think this out a little longer before you jump in with both feet and add another 6 -10 pups to the world.
ps how old is your dog?

[jetjockey]

I think you might end up finding it's going to be pretty tough to do what you want to do. Like I said, the owner of the female typically picks out the dog for breeding. You "might" find a female to breed to, but the "quality" of that female is the question. There are a lot of Brits out there just like yours with NFC,FC, and AFC in front of their names. Dogs who have made great trial dogs, good house dogs, that get hunted as well. Those titles, while not showing everything, still make it easier to sell pups. Maybe if you posted not only a pedigree, but also what litter mates to your dog have done in the field. That can sometimes help. Think long and hard before you decide to breed your pup. Are you actually adding something to the breed that other dogs can't? There's some pretty darn nice dogs out there, and many of them are out of NFC's and HOF dogs.

[Carolina Gundogs]

I dont Believe anyone has intended to offend you with their posts. However, you must realize your idea is a little far fetched. People go to great extremes and sacrifices to prove their dogs are worthy. I know people who slept in their cars in freezing weather waiting for a trial to start the next morning because they couldn't afford a hotel room. It may help to post pictures of your dog pointing to show off his style, retrieving birds to hand and just pictures showing he is actually a hunting dog. Without any completed titles or pictures, there is nothing to show this dog has ever smelled a bird.
It sounds like you have a very nice dog but people will be looking for proof of some kind. Even if you could use him to guide some it would help your case.

One last thing, most bird dogs are pointing birds by six months of age. The pup in my avatar was 11 weeks old in the picture and pointing with intensity.

Good luck in your search

[shags]

Are you looking to buy or lease a female, or are you looking for someone who will just breed to your boy?

You mentioned that you want to breed him before you have him 'fixed'. If he's a great dog, why would neutering him even be on the horizon? It kind of sounds like a one shot deal?

If you buy a brood bitch, fine, then all the responsibility is yours as to raising a litter and caring for the dam for the rest of her life. If you lease, you need to be ready to be financially responsible in case something terrible happens to her. Think again if you believe somebody with a quality female (whatever that means) of your choosing will breed to your unproven dog, take on all the responsibility for a litter, all the expense and hassle, while you walk away with the pick of the litter which you don't even plan to keep for yourself. How are you planning to keep that line going without a future breeding program, when you won't have any idea where the rest of the pups are going?

If your dog is a really nice dog, the owners of likely females will seek him out. If you must search and solicit for a breeding, what you will likely find is someone more like yourself, who has a dog they are very pleased with, but is unproven except for the owner's opinion.

Sorry to be harsh, but the reality of breeding, raising, and finding homes for puppies is harsh, too. So is working with breed rescue which deals with the unintended results of plans gone awry. I hope you think deeply about this venture.

[nhachman]

Most bird dog owners think they have something special. It's easy to do because you are partial to your own dog. I was in the same boat after my first Brittany showed she had a good nose, was trained to hold a point, etc. We go out and win a NSTRA trial every once in a while. But the more you see other dogs, the more you see that your dog is usually just average. There are those dogs out there that are consistently above average. If you have one of those dogs and want to have proof that the dog is above average, you use one of the test or trial venues to do so. If that dog reaches the higher echelons of the testing or trialing, that dog is worthy of breeding and you will have documented proof of its abilities. If the dog cannot reach that standard, it is not worth breeding in my opinion. I think a lot of dog owners just want to keep the memory of that special dog going. In this case, I believe it to be selfish and irresponsible to breed. You're probably not going to find a quality bitch to breed to unless you are going to pay. Then, you need to be prepared to keep every single one of those puppies that you cannot find good homes for. These are the thoughts that have kept me from breeding, even though I have a female and it would be far easier for me to find a mate than the other way around. You can usually pay for a titled stud as long as your bitch has a half way decent pedigree. The moral of this story is to really ask yourself why you want to breed. Then really think about that, and see if you can really convince yourself deep down that it is the right thing to do.

[hustonmc]

Basically your opinion of your dog amounts to nothing............. That's not a knock on you, it's that way with everyone. Nolan Huffman's opinion of Buddy amounted to nothing either. Just so happened that many many many people shared his same opinion, they are the ones that count. If your dog is worthy, prove it. This doesn't have to be a field trial, or hunt test, but even out in the woods were it counts. Go hunt public ground, if every time you go out people see you coming back with a full bag they'll take notice. If the realize that every time they hunt a spot after your truck has been parked there and they can't find birds, they'll take notice. If every time you go hunting with friends they want you to leave your dog in the truck so theirs can find birds, they've taken notice. Those people's opinions count, the people that ride in galleries opinion counts, the judges opinion counts, performing to a written standard counts, your opinion DOES NOT.

[isonychia]

Well if a point has been made on this forum, it was done today! :roll: All good advice and motivation though, I'll take it to heart too.

Basically your opinion of your dog amounts to nothing............. That's not a knock on you, it's that way with everyone. Nolan Huffman's opinion of Buddy amounted to nothing either. Just so happened that many many many people shared his same opinion, they are the ones that count. If your dog is worthy, prove it. This doesn't have to be a field trial, or hunt test, but even out in the woods were it counts. Go hunt public ground, if every time you go out people see you coming back with a full bag they'll take notice. If the realize that every time they hunt a spot after your truck has been parked there and they can't find birds, they'll take notice. If every time you go hunting with friends they want you to leave your dog in the truck so theirs can find birds, they've taken notice. Those people's opinions count, the people that ride in galleries opinion counts, the judges opinion counts, performing to a written standard counts, your opinion DOES NOT.

Nolan's Last Bullet (Buddy) is my dogs grandfather.

Last time someone told me I didn't know enough to do something, I rebuilt the top end of 2 subaru engines. Last time someone told me the odds were against me, I shot a 5x5 bull elk my first archery and first elk season period OTC public lands nonetheless. If everyone got shot down, well, I don't think we would have any good dogs now would we. Thanks for the motivation though, see you at the Denver area hunt tests and or NAVHDA trials, maybe the lack of professional training and 365 days of bird work will be a disadvantage, I'm willing to find out and really want to make some connections and meet some fellow gun dog owners.

[jetjockey]

Nolan's Last Bullet (Buddy) is my dogs grandfather.

Along with about a million other brittanys.. Good luck finding a dog to breed to. Your best bet IMO would be to get yourself a female, and breed the two. Owners of good females will be looking to improve what they have, if you don't have something better than what they have, it's going to be tough going.

[Ecw21]

I don't think anyone is telling you you don't know enough. I'm not knowledgeable at all with bird dog pedigrees but I don't think you have to know much of anything to get an eager male (aren't we all?) to breed a bitch in heat. I DO think people were trying to be helpful about the realities of the market today.

My dog has reasonable lineage (I don't know much at all but the good people of this forum helped me learn a lot...great knowledge here) but she is spayed. She has not proven anything beyond that paper--I love her to death and wouldn't trade her but I'm sure others wouldnt like her nearly as much. Your dog sounds great and I have enjoyed your posts. But 'the breed deserves the line to continue'? 'deserves????'. That and the subsequent sarcastic response to honest replies seems purely ego driven.

[isonychia]

I'll see how my dog does in some hunt tests and go from there. I am open minded to the idea of not breeding him simply because there are a lot out there from quality lines. I will likely get him neutered if I decide by next spring not to breed. I am tired of my dog getting attacked by neutered males on walks and hikes, I am sure he is too.

Does anyone have any suggestions on books or other sources for information on dog genetics and breeding? Something to read up on for the possible future...

[hustonmc]

maybe the lack of professional training and 365 days of bird work will be a disadvantage, I'm willing to find out and really want to make some connections and meet some fellow gun dog owners.

You've already given yourself an excuse in case you don't meet those expectations. I honestly believe you'll put the hard work in to get it done and bust your a$$, I truly hope you'll do that, it's a win/win for you and the dog. But don't make excuses if you don't, it'll come down to 2 things. Dog wasn't good enough or you didn't try hard enough.

Does anyone have any suggestions on books or other sources for information on dog genetics and breeding? Something to read up on for the possible future...

"Snakefoot, The Making of a Champion" Robert G. Wehle himself.

[shags]

A little sidetrack here, but how is neutering your dog going to keep him from getting attacked by neutered dogs on walks and hikes?

Your intact male isn't a problem and behaves...the neutered dogs are aggressive and don't behave. Hmmmm.

[isonychia]

A little sidetrack here, but how is neutering your dog going to keep him from getting attacked by neutered dogs on walks and hikes?

Your intact male isn't a problem and behaves...the neutered dogs are aggressive and don't behave. Hmmmm.

Yeah and unfortunately it is a fairly common problem. I have a problem with 1 of 12-15 dogs. My girlfriend used to work at a dog socialization boarding facility (doggy "daycare") and my dog would get attacked by other males from time to time. He also humped a lot of fluffy male dogs obsessively (but chose ones that never attacked... luck), I could stop it but didn't trust the other employees with my e-collar remote :roll: The social behavioral trainer there said it is common for neutered males to act aggressively towards unneutered ones. The worst part is that these daycares are so popular you'd be hard pressed to find a place that'll board your dog in traditional kennels without that social interaction and many of the daycares won't even allow unfixed dogs.

[AZ Brittany Guy]

I'll see how my dog does in some hunt tests and go from there. I am open minded to the idea of not breeding him simply because there are a lot out there from quality lines. I will likely get him neutered if I decide by next spring not to breed. I am tired of my dog getting attacked by neutered males on walks and hikes, I am sure he is too.

Does anyone have any suggestions on books or other sources for information on dog genetics and breeding? Something to read up on for the possible future...

Snakefoot by Bob Wehle.

[Neil]

I have a male Field Champion Brittany with 41 field trial wins, both his sire and dam are in the Brittany Field Trail Hall of Fame, and I am sure a littermate sister will be. He has been used by very few as a stud, including me. OFA'ed Good and CRERFed. The hard truth is there are better dogs out there.

The best advice you were given was to buy a nice female and bred her to him, but only after you have at least 8 deposits from your hunting buddies. Don't breed unless you are sure you have the pups sold. We have enough dogs in rescue and euthanased each year.

A couple of JH passes or even a SH title is not going to attract a worthy dam to breed.

This is not knock on you, or what I am sure is a nice dog, it is fact. A male can easily produce more than 150 litters a year, the last five zNational Champions have not been bred that much, combinned.

[isonychia]

I have a male Field Champion Brittany with 41 field trial wins, both his sire and dam are in the Brittany Field Trail Hall of Fame, and I am sure a littermate sister will be. He has been used by very few as a stud, including me. OFA'ed Good and CRERFed. The hard truth is there are better dogs out there.

The best advice you were given was to buy a nice female and bred her to him, but only after you have at least 8 deposits from your hunting buddies. Don't breed unless you are sure you have the pups sold. We have enough dogs in rescue and euthanased each year.

A couple of JH passes or even a SH title is not going to attract a worthy dam to breed.

This is not knock on you, or what I am sure is a nice dog, it is fact. A male can easily produce more than 150 litters a year, the last five zNational Champions have not been bred that much, combinned.

Wow! Now that is some good information! If I have gained any insight on this so far, it might be to wait until my life is a little more steady or I retire to conquer some breeding. Regardless it has motivated me to enter in some trials or hunt tests.

41 field trial wins!? I need to find a job that can afford me that much time off!

[AZ Brittany Guy]

I have a male Field Champion Brittany with 41 field trial wins, both his sire and dam are in the Brittany Field Trail Hall of Fame, and I am sure a littermate sister will be. He has been used by very few as a stud, including me. OFA'ed Good and CRERFed. The hard truth is there are better dogs out there.

The best advice you were given was to buy a nice female and bred her to him, but only after you have at least 8 deposits from your hunting buddies. Don't breed unless you are sure you have the pups sold. We have enough dogs in rescue and euthanased each year.

A couple of JH passes or even a SH title is not going to attract a worthy dam to breed.

This is not knock on you, or what I am sure is a nice dog, it is fact. A male can easily produce more than 150 litters a year, the last five zNational Champions have not been bred that much, combinned.

Wow! Now that is some good information! If I have gained any insight on this so far, it might be to wait until my life is a little more steady or I retire to conquer some breeding. Regardless it has motivated me to enter in some trials or hunt tests.

41 field trial wins!? I need to find a job that can afford me that much time off!

Neil is a good example of a guy who is NOT kennel blind. (looks at his dogs objectively) He is able to discuss the holes ( short comings )in his dogs. You shouldn't be afraid to buy a pup from him because he will put some thought behind his breeding's. Just a guess.

[RayGubernat]

I have a male Field Champion Brittany with 41 field trial wins, both his sire and dam are in the Brittany Field Trail Hall of Fame, and I am sure a littermate sister will be. He has been used by very few as a stud, including me. OFA'ed Good and CRERFed. The hard truth is there are better dogs out there.

The best advice you were given was to buy a nice female and bred her to him, but only after you have at least 8 deposits from your hunting buddies. Don't breed unless you are sure you have the pups sold. We have enough dogs in rescue and euthanased each year.

A couple of JH passes or even a SH title is not going to attract a worthy dam to breed.

This is not knock on you, or what I am sure is a nice dog, it is fact. A male can easily produce more than 150 litters a year, the last five zNational Champions have not been bred that much, combinned.

Wow! Now that is some good information! If I have gained any insight on this so far, it might be to wait until my life is a little more steady or I retire to conquer some breeding. Regardless it has motivated me to enter in some trials or hunt tests.

41 field trial wins!? I need to find a job that can afford me that much time off!

It is quite possible that the dog you have is indeed very special. \It happens all the time. You may choose not to pursue breeding at this time(which is most probably a wise course of action), go down the road in your life and not find another that is quite as good. That may make you wish that you had bred the dog.

There is an answer to that one too. It is called frozen semen. You can have your dog collected for a couple hundred dollars and have the semen stored for about a hundred bucks or so a year. Five, eight or ten years down the road, when you feel the time is right, you could find the right female and have that litter from your special boy. You could also come to realize, over that same span of time, that this dog is good, but that there are better out there. In that case, you wasted a little beer money on a dream. That ain't the worst thing in the world either.

I will tell you this... from experience. Field trialing is much more insidious than your average sport. It gets to you and makes you want to do more, and more, and better.... It can become an addiction, so be careful and be warned.


Whichever way you go...enjoy the ride.

RayG

[kninebirddog]

Questions like this are always hard to answer because though it is looked at and asked with good intentions. Those good intentions many times fall short of fully thinking about things
Some will say I just want the one litter...if you only want to do one litter that is good but why not put the best you can into the one litter rather then just look for any female that comes into heat that has papers? Do you care of the female is from solid hunting back ground? do you care if she is OFA'd or not? Do you care what the female in heat brings to the table for those pups?
Pedigrees are nice,,,But they are merely icing on the cake. I have seen some pedigrees that wow on papers look awesome only to have a nice average dog that lacked what I like to see in the field?
So think about this what you are asking someone to take on a litter of pups for what? So you can have the pick and then stick them with the rest of the litter. What if the female has an issue and has to have a C section will you pay for that for your pick of pups? What about the extra cost incurred much to many dismay People do not come running and lining up at the door begging for a puppy.
Many times well intentioned litters people end up panicking when the pups get past 8 weeks old and they are still feeding them and then they start to drop the price like those pups are unwanted goods and put them on the clearance shelf.

There has been some very good replies and RayG had a good one watch out on them trials you may find yourself liking them and that opens up another can of worms LOL

[CDN_Cocker]

In this day and age titles are what set a dog apart. Owning a male dog you are at the disadvantage as the owner of the female is the one who picks the stud (and generally this is based on credentials). People probably won't lining up just because you think he's swell and pointed his second pigeon with no prior experience. Not trying to sound harsh, just the way it is. If you truly think he is worth breeding, then take him the distance and get some titles/paperwork to back up your personal feelings. Good luck

[S&J gsp]

I tryed this at one time had a nice male and put titles on him and put him up for public stud. Now here is your problem unless you have a good way of marketing him all people see are titles some breedings look good on paper and don't produce anything worth keeping. Now National titles help some but it is not all titles it marketing that will get him known. You being new to trials will also be a disadvantage to you not saying that you don't have a nice dog but there is a lot of marketing that goes into owning a stud dog. Another disadvantage you have is that a lot of people are running LAST BULLET blood. Just an opinion if you want a pup out of him get known in the field trial world and maybe it will happen.

I tryed the stud dog thing a few years ago and what I ended up with was a nice birddog that had titles with ads and entry fees and travel expenses I had almost 10k in him and got no breedings. I'm not trying to say not to breed just that a stud dog is a pricey way to start. I had a guy tell me once a good stud will make you famous but a good female line will keep you famous.

Best of luck
Stan

[S&J gsp]

Well at 25 years old I would be trying to go and meet with all the good breeders I could find. A good start would be on this board you have Neil 41 wins is impressive, k-9 has so nice dogs, chucker placed some nice dogs. Send PMs or emails most breeder's will tell you the hard truth of what works and what don't and most will talk to you about there line of dogs. Next I would spend the time to go to trials and hunt test NSTRA events and see what works best for you. Spend some time in the saddle and watch a lot of different trials meet people talk with people see what your looking at a lot of hunters think they have nice dogs but to watch a very nice dog is a show. After you do all of that then do the research on pedigrees and see how well they line up with what you have. Once the research is done go watch more dogs run write down good and bad on each dog then good and bad on what you have and if bad out weights good start over again. I liked breeding I just can't justify the time to raise one good litter of pups any good breeder is thinking at least 3 generations ahead. So the breeding that took place today was thought about 5-6 years ago.

[Munster]

[quote="shags" The social behavioral trainer there said it is common for neutered males to act aggressively towards unneutered ones.

Yup, they hold inward aggression because the other dogs got to keep their nutz! :roll: I think that trainer is high.

[Munster]

I have a male Field Champion Brittany with 41 field trial wins, both his sire and dam are in the Brittany Field Trail Hall of Fame, and I am sure a littermate sister will be. He has been used by very few as a stud, including me. OFA'ed Good and CRERFed. The hard truth is there are better dogs out there.

The best advice you were given was to buy a nice female and bred her to him, but only after you have at least 8 deposits from your hunting buddies. Don't breed unless you are sure you have the pups sold. We have enough dogs in rescue and euthanased each year.

A couple of JH passes or even a SH title is not going to attract a worthy dam to breed.

This is not knock on you, or what I am sure is a nice dog, it is fact. A male can easily produce more than 150 litters a year, the last five zNational Champions have not been bred that much, combinned.

Wow! Now that is some good information! If I have gained any insight on this so far, it might be to wait until my life is a little more steady or I retire to conquer some breeding. Regardless it has motivated me to enter in some trials or hunt tests.

41 field trial wins!? I need to find a job that can afford me that much time off!

I like the attitude you are taking. Nobody is here to lead yu wrong. We all have opinions and are trying to help. I think in a nutshell you have to true to yourself and your dog and figure out what you are wanting to improve on or add to. Good luck to you.