Why do we lionize wild birds?

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:24 pm

Make that 3 of us!! Never will be like it used to be. :(

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:28 pm

Maurice wrote:
birddogger wrote:There are many on here (including myself) who have been around a long time and have hunted and and seen more wild birds than the younger crowd ever have or ever will. It is sad but the hey days of wild birds are gone, at least here in the midwest. So, I have a choice. I can quit doing what I love or I can hunt pen raised birds, enjoy the outing and enjoy the dog work, which is the only reason I do it to begin with. I can also hunt a few wild birds from time to time and travel out of state when I can afford it, and even then, the bird numbers are nothing like I grew up with. So we know how fast they fly and how exciting they are to hunt. This is why wild birds are precious and why we "lionize" them.

Charlie
That's how I feel too. We use to have good wild quail hunting in the upstate of sc, sure enjoyed it and shot by share. I am real content now just to go work dogs, mostly pen birds with a few wild birds. What makes me happy is being out with my dogs.

Mo
Way too many things to worry about that are more important than how wild a bird is. I use to really think there must be a big difference that had escaped me till I found out many people who wouldn't be caught dead hunting a released bird were and didn't know it.

Native birds are the ultimate but if released birds are good quality and handled right you can hardly tell the difference.

Ezzy

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Neil » Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:32 pm

Any of you see "Trouble with the Curve"?

I can tell a wild covey flush blindfolded.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Uplandish » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:32 pm

The stigma attached to pen raised birds comes in some part from ignorance, but mostly from bad birds. If a preserve doesn't offer good quality birds that are not only healthy but properly conditioned it is a giant disservice to their customers and their customer's dogs.

How many times have we heard of tame or sick preserve birds that the dog caught? If they were healthy and properly conditioned they would run or flush wild if the dog mishandled them. A dog catching a bird is just giant disaster to begin with.

I have been to a couple preserves where the birds - although they were just taken from their pens - were indistinguishable from wild birds in the way they reacted to the dogs, you see we had to actually hunt them. If there were more preserves that were providing hunting opportunities over shooting opportunities I doubt they would be held in the same light as they are now.

I would pay good money and drive a few hours to hunt healthy good quality birds rather than pay a premium to dog train with some sick asthmatic chukars that can barely fly on a preserve that couldn't give a care less about customer service.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by JWP58 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:22 am

Because some people actually want a hunt, and some people want a shoot.

If I wanted a sure thing i'd just go shoot the pigeons out from under an overpass. If I want a hunt I'll go chase wild birds, that run like a track star if they hear a door slam.

Its kinda like people that use the legs god gave them to hunt, or the fat lazy people that sped 10k on a "utv" just so they don't have to walk.....


Do you people feel the same way about high fence big game hunting?

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Neil » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:28 am

JWP58 wrote:Because some people actually want a hunt, and some people want a shoot.

If I wanted a sure thing i'd just go shoot the pigeons out from under an overpass. If I want a hunt I'll go chase wild birds, that run like a track star if they hear a door slam.

Its kinda like people that use the legs god gave them to hunt, or the fat lazy people that sped 10k on a "utv" just so they don't have to walk.....


Do you people feel the same way about high fence big game hunting?
Not everyone that hunts from a UTV are fat and lazy, some have mobility issues.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by JWP58 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:43 am

Neil wrote: Not everyone that hunts from a UTV are fat and lazy, some have mobility issues.

I'd have to "see it, to believe it".

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by jack the dog » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:53 am

I am envious of those of you that live where there are plenty of wild birds to hunt. Here we have some Ruffed Grouse, definitely wild, but the Bobwhites are gone. Never have had the Chinese variety of pheasant here. And NCWRC will not approve stocking either pheasant or quail.
At my age it is hard to keep up with the dogs on the steep and rugged slopes like I used to, and the same goes for my older dogs.

So who wouldn't prefer wild birds over tame if given the choice and the opportunity?
To some people bagging a wild bird would be like capturing a Bigfoot.

I see nothing wrong with taking my dogs and myself for a treat down in the flatlands chasing those fast flying Bob's.
Then, back to the slopes for a shot at old Ruff. I had rather have one Ruff in my jacket than ten preserve quail. But not so for my dogs.
You want to see a dog smile, take them to a preserve where they have good flying birds. There isn't a bird dog alive that hadn't rather have a mouthful of preserve bird feathers in their mouth as opposed to a mouthful of dry leaves and dirt, after a day of hunting, self included.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Chukar12 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:05 am

JWP58 wrote:Do you people feel the same way about high fence big game hunting?
Do you see people taking their working dogs to a preserve hunt the same as you see a high fence big game hunt?

It doesn't seem to be too far an intellectual or moral stretch to differentiate for me.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by JWP58 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:23 am

Chukar12 wrote:
JWP58 wrote:Do you people feel the same way about high fence big game hunting?
Do you see people taking their working dogs to a preserve hunt the same as you see a high fence big game hunt?

It doesn't seem to be too far an intellectual or moral stretch to differentiate for me.
How is it any different? In both cases its 100% guaranteed that you'll be placed in front of game (whether its birds or deer, axis, ect, ect). In either case as long as you do your part (shoot the animal) you'll be successful. How are they different? Is it different because one cant fly, and the other comes running when you shake the feed can????

You don't have to go hunt the animals, you KNOW WHERE THEY ARE.

Personally if someone wants to do either, more power to them. Just don't act like its hunting, because it is not.
Last edited by JWP58 on Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Chukar12 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:25 am

yeah ... I think the people get it, just that the dogs are too dumb to understand

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by JWP58 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:34 am

Chukar12 wrote:yeah ... I think the people get it, just that the dogs are too dumb to understand
Care to explain???

I'm not trying to decipher whether or not DOGS think its hunting or not. Now I know for you guys that "trial" the whole preserve thing must be promoted as "holy" and "unbelievably difficult" as the entire premise of "trialing" is bragging rights concerning "who's dog is better". But for those of us who are not concerned (ie obsessed) about bragging, we can call a spade a spade.

If you ran hounds for hogs, would you consider it a real hunt if a farmer released a barnyard raised pig for you to chase????? I think not.


Plus I've personally seen a dog chowing down on its deceased owner, therefor I'll pass on asking the dog about what it thinks.....after all its a DOG. I've seen my dog eat "bleep" (deer, antelope, moose, cow, its own), does that mean I should consider "bleep" a meal???????
Last edited by JWP58 on Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Chukar12 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:37 am

You haven't been alive long enough to hunt behind as many hounds as I have, or to have hunted as many wild birds. Then you have the whole communication issue to deal with, you gotta lot of work to do...

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by JWP58 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:38 am

Chukar12 wrote:You haven't been alive long enough to hunt behind as many hounds as I have, or to have hunted as many wild birds. Then you have the whole communication issue to deal with, you gotta lot of work to do...

Thank you for explaining.......... :roll:

I understand. You are a mighty ribbon winning trial'er, and I just lowly peasant. Your words are gospel, mine pure horseshit. I get it.

P.S. Ive got to go hop on the side by side atv and go blast some parakeets on my 10 acre ranch.......I mean I'm goin huntin!!!!!!!
Last edited by JWP58 on Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by nikegundog » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:41 am

I believe you have your wording wrong, guys try to "lionize" tame birds, when in reality that are simply a glorified clay pigeon. A wild bird is just simply a wild bird, you don't get to spin them in a sack, tie them to a string, or plant a pole by them.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Neil » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:56 am

JWP58 wrote:
Neil wrote: Not everyone that hunts from a UTV are fat and lazy, some have mobility issues.

I'd have to "see it, to believe it".
You have never seen someone without legs? Everyone that hunts must be ablebodied? You have no friends or relatives that are older and have health issues? I wish you good health, but I think your advancing age will bring some understanding, if not good sense.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Chukar12 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:02 am

JWP58 wrote:Thank you for explaining.......... I understand. You are a mighty ribbon winning trial'er, and I just lowly peasant. Your words are gospel, mine pure horseshit. I get it.
Scott posed a question that was sure to create some controversy as people tried to explain, what was his purpose? Who knows? It could be that he is writing a show and we are unknowingly sources for commentary on a wild bird hunt. The unintended consequences seem to be potentially offensive remarks directed at people with similar interests who have legitimate reasons for doing things differently than others.

Some people come into a discussion with an opinion and control of the boundaries they set to their values, it is in this manner that they are able to have a discussion and discord without having to immediately default to the offensive. Others do not have that confidence or skill set. I am a field trialer with a grand total of four years experience nearly to the day from the first time I set foot on trial grounds. You just started upland bird hunting, just got a dog, there are a number of folks on here that hunted wild birds long before you were born and circumstances have changed for them and today they hunt differently so they can still enjoy their dogs. Some of them use the preserve venue to introduce young people to the sport, they volunteer their time to do educational seminars there i could go on with the list. I still choose to call them hunters and I want them to "lionize" the activity if not the birds. They are dog trainers and handlers to the highest degree and what they do is nothing like shooting a big game animal that scores X, nor do they want it to be.

You are correct in that I could not care less what your opinion is; you don't seem to think long enough before you speak to be relevant and that's your problem to deal with not mine. You stated directly that people who frequent preserves with their dogs are not hunters without regard to why and what they may do to support what you do. I don't need to defend myself in this framework you have set, it is offensive enough on a broad scale without me having to take it personally.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by buck » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:18 am

I've hunted wild birds where I have limited out before gettin' outta shotgun range of the truck. I have hunted preserve birds where it took all day and still did not find that last bird. Hard to say which was truly the better hunt for me and the dogs. Here in Wisconsin, the amount of wild pheasants here in the drift-less area is virtually non-existent as it is in most of the other areas of the state. If you want to hunt pheasants, you go to a preserve and hunt birds or you go to state land and hunt released birds. Most of the birds on private land are released also. Otherwise you pay even bigger bucks to hunt outta state to have a similar experience. Easy for folks with access to good numbers of naturally produced birds to find fault with folks shooting released birds. We are fortunate tho to have a fair amount of grouse and are on a good migration route for woodcock. My GWP does a good job at finding and pointing fall turkey also. It's nice the state has made that legal. Hard to believe a 20# Tom can hide and hold tight in a tuft of tall grass no different than a rooster pheasant.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by JWP58 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:05 pm

Chukar12 wrote: You are correct in that I could not care less what your opinion is; you don't seem to think long enough before you speak to be relevant and that's your problem to deal with not mine. You stated directly that people who frequent preserves with their dogs are not hunters without regard to why and what they may do to support what you do. I don't need to defend myself in this framework you have set, it is offensive enough on a broad scale without me having to take it personally.
And I could not care less your opinion either. Nor do I care how long you've been doing anything, including "thinking about what you're going to say". We find common ground after all.

And no, I still stand very firm in my belief that high fence game farm and preserve bird operations are not hunting. They are shooting events. You can do either til your heart is content, just don't try and pass it off as hunting, because it isn't. Well I take that back, it truly might be considered hunting in the People's Republic of Commiefornia......so you might have me there.

I wouldn't go to sea world and claim to be deep sea fishing. I wouldn't go to the zoo for a safari......Get my drift?

And to who ever posted "guess you've never seen anyone without legs". I'll make you a deal, the first time I'm out hunting and I see a no-legged man hop out of his pickup unload his UTV and go hunting, you will be the first person I contact via pm to admit I was totally wrong. However, I expect you to message me the first time you see a FAT, OBESE, LARD "bleep", unload his UTV and go hunting. We'll see who messages who first.......

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:34 pm

I now know why we do not lionize birdhunters .

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by jack the dog » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:51 pm

Mountaineer wrote:I now know why we do not lionize birdhunters .
Yep.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Neil » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:02 pm

JWP58 wrote:
And to who ever posted "guess you've never seen anyone without legs". I'll make you a deal, the first time I'm out hunting and I see a no-legged man hop out of his pickup unload his UTV and go hunting, you will be the first person I contact via pm to admit I was totally wrong. However, I expect you to message me the first time you see a FAT, OBESE, LARD "bleep", unload his UTV and go hunting. We'll see who messages who first.......
I am blessed from my friendship with a good number of mobility impaired individuals that must utilize a mechanical device to continue to hunt. They don't hop anywhere, they have friends that assist them. Yet you mock them.

You wil not always be young and fit.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Ruffshooter » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:11 pm

And to who ever posted "guess you've never seen anyone without legs". I'll make you a deal, the first time I'm out hunting and I see a no-legged man hop out of his pickup unload his UTV and go hunting, you will be the first person I contact via pm to admit I was totally wrong. However, I expect you to message me the first time you see a FAT, OBESE, LARD "bleep", unload his UTV and go hunting. We'll see who messages who first.......[/quote]

You are an AZZ a real big one.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by markj » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:38 pm

guess you've never seen anyone without legs
Guy I know has no legs, and yet he rides goldwing motorcycle :) has a lift for his wheel chair, he goes by the name of wheels :) he also hunts and fishes. You guys kill me.... how many others are out there disabed and hunt? A whole lot.

Way too funny, shoulda seen it in 64 here in nebraska, more birds than you could ever shoot. We shot a lot that year... them days are long gone, heck you would have to off 70% of the population (people) to get back what we once had, they just keep on breedin :) Lost ground means lost cover and lost birds. But heck deer are still strong...

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Winchey » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:59 pm

JWP58

Most trailers lionize wild birds as well, many trials are held on wild birds, including some of the most prestigious, the Broomhill and Dominion trial, The Continental. I think Chuckar has won a wild bird trial or two out west and seems to spend a ton of time training on and hunting wild birds.

Every trailer I have ever talked to would gladly scrap the throw down trials if wild bird grounds for trials and training were abundant and easily accessible.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:12 pm

I just enjoy watching dogs have fun doing what they were bred to do or even what their owner decides to do with them. I would rather plant a bird in my back yard and work a dog on it rather than sit on my skinny butt trying to judge what others do with their dogs. In fact, I think I will go throw a bumper in the lake for my Lab since I cant shoot any wild birds for him here right now.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by mountaindogs » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:48 pm

I have never hunted wild quail. Never. That alone is sad.
Aside from that, I am very frustrated with my young dogs catching so many birds. They learn to hold to please me. Launchers help but all my dogs recognise the difference when a bird is in a launcher vs not. I would love to train just ONE dog with wild birds. I have little to add because my experience is one sided.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Gertie » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:41 pm

I like hunting wild birds because I like being out where wild birds live. I also like knowing that by hunting there I am showing my support for continued management of those lands as wild bird habitat. It's a win-win! :D

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by RayGubernat » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:05 pm

C'mon guys -

Let's stop all the highblown Bull. The main reason why most folks go for wild birds is because they are FREE. It only costs gas money to go where they are.
They don't want to pay for their sport. But then most folks don't want to spend the time and effort to get a steady dog either.

I have no problem with that...none whatsoever, but, lets call 'em honestly. The vast majority of upland hunters who hunt wild birds do so because they exist are on free access public land.

The numbers of upland bird hunters is waaaaaay down from what it used to be. Why?? Because in many parts of the country, the free public access birds are a thing of the past.

Wild birds can be a challenge in many ways and hunting them can really sharpen up a dog, because the wild birds do not put up with very much from predators before they "EXIT Stage left!" Most dog folks and most pro trainers really treasure wild bird opportunities for their dogs. Why? Because wild bird experience can help to make a dog all that it can be.

But let's not kid ourselves. The vast majority of upland bird hunters just want to go out and kill something and they would rather not pay for it.

RayG

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by dan v » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:39 pm

Ray, I normally enjoy what you write, but that is crap. There is a whole world of difference in how pn birds act/react compared to wild. Not to mention the venue. I've done preserve hunts...and just looking at the spent shells on the ground should be an indicator of the quality of the hunt.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:52 pm

Either "killing something" for free or "killing something" with a stop at a cash register may well fit the "majority of upland bird hunters(I would say shooters)" but...not the upland bird hunters that I know.
While most do grow out of that phase, some sadly do not....a few never succumb in the first place.
Thankfully, another few also find value in the small points of any highblown day re a scattergun, birds, country and...a dog.
One can be known by their friends.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by DoubleBarrel GunDogs » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:46 pm

RayGubernat wrote:C'mon guys -

The main reason why most folks go for wild birds is because they are FREE. It only costs gas money to go where they are....
But let's not kid ourselves. The vast majority of upland bird hunters just want to go out and kill something and they would rather not pay for it.

RayG
My upcoming trip to ND for pheasant opener / Estimated cost of 3 day hunt:

Non-resident small game license $110
Trespass fees and lodging $590
My estimated share of the fuel cost $300
Total - $1000

This of course does not include meals or other expenses such as ammo, and this hunt is a bargain to hunt private land.

If I'm fortunate enough to limit out all 3 days I could still easily estimate the meat to cost in excess of $100/lb. Hardly what I'd consider "free". Killing of course is not why I hunt, and I suspect is not the primary motivation for the vast majority either.

Not one of your finer posts Ray.

Nate

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Neil » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:41 pm

I spend about $3,000 a year hunting wild birds. And I don't have to pay for the friend's Texas quail lease, some of those are over 10 grand a season.


That would buy a lot of preserve hunts.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by RayGubernat » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:09 pm

You guys don't get what I was saying.

The MAJORITY of upland bird hunters...

Anyone who takes the time to get their dogs to the level of performance that is normal and average on this board...

is NOT the majority of birdhunters.

Anyone who would drive or fly halfway across the country and spend thousands of dollars to hunt upland birds, most often over their own dogs...

is NOT the majority of birdhunters.

I'm not being elitist here or anything like that. I am trying to be realistic. Most folks would never spend the time and money on bird hunting and bird dogs that most of us here do.

An elk hunt??...you bet, sign me up. A mule deer hunt for a 4X4??...you bet, where do I send my deposit?

Five grand for a birdhunt??? Are you nuts?? I think that would be more the typical hunter's response.

The reason birdhunting is in decline, is the loss of free access to wild birds on public lands across much of the country. No free wild birds on public land? Why have bird dogs? I live in Delaware. Thirty to forty years ago, on the Delmarva, there were scads of wild quail. there were plenty of pointers and setters around. Good ones. Today, there are very few wild birds and there are almost no pointers or setters or even shorthairs to be found. The same thing has happened to the retrieving breeds here. Twenty years ago, every other household had a Lab. They were all over the place because tons of folks hunted geese. Since the migrating Canadian Goose population went into the toilet, you see very few labs and the number of licenses has dropped off significantly. If it weren't for deer hunting in Delaware, I don't think they would sell enough licenses to keep DNREC's doors open.

RayG

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by tn red » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:13 pm

Is there anyboby that just enjoys watchin good dog work no matter what kind of bird they pointin?

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by deseeker » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:19 pm

This year I'm going to do 2 wild bird hunts(a week each) in the far south west corner of ND(I live in far eastern side of Nebraska). I also buy an Omaha Indian reservation lic in Nebraska($150 plus gas each time up) so I can hunt wild birds. I also buy my Nebraska lic so I can hunt wild birds. Now my buddy is trying to talk me into a South Dakota wild bird hunt for a week. I DON'T THINK MY WILD BIRD HUNTING WILL BE VERY CHEAP :!: I must hunt them because I like the challange :?: Even if I go broke hunting wild birds, my dogs will have fun this year(me too) :D I do hunt game farms as well, but it is mainly to get my younger dogs early practice.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Chukar12 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:57 pm

I think I follow Rays post from if in no other way from a regional and demographic sense. In the region north and east of me there are a lot of wild birds, the closer you get to the SF Bay Area and So Ca...it gets tougher. In those regions it is also worthy of note that the income and population rise to support pay for play type hunts.

Whether I would draw it this way or not is irrelevant, and I have learned the importance of respecting and supporting those that do it differently. Several years ago, I was guiding at a preserve, after my hunt I was hanging around the club house waiting to see if something else came up. I started a conversation with an old guy drinking a soda watching a football game, at some point, it came to me that I was conversing with General Chuck Yeager. He was an old man. He got around well but spoke eloquently of what the years had done to his mobility and while that was a negative he spoke with equal dignity of what the time had done for his appreciation of any day in the field and especially one where a young dog was there to share it with. We spoke for some time and he stayed and waited the forty minutes or so it took for me to go home and get my book to sign.

Everybody has different reasons for what they do and why, and as I said in my first post I learn more and more every day how to extend may criticism beyond the surface and further into more tangible values. Maybe some day I will learn to look past and not engage the ignorance and immaturity displayed by some, and then again maybe not. I think of a man like the general, mortal I am sure in his youthful indiscretion, but his sacrifices and accomplishments legendary. Then I read the unabashed ignorance of a kid like JWP58 and I project that on a guy like Yeager who is there because that is what he has left...all the while some little pimple on a keyboard types without forethought or reverence at all. I have a difficult time over looking that.

This is a gun DOG forum...not a shooting forum, not a killing forum...the dog is the noun of subject here not the gun. Wild birds are an experience to be revered, and not taken for granted. I suppose those with enough exposure do lionize them in a sense ...I know that I do. Scott I believe we lionize the wild birds because they are becoming harder to find and we are afraid of losing them, maybe it's the same with the gentleman and gentle woman of the gun dog sport... I don't think I have ever said it but....I am done with this thread.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Tooling » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:54 am

Don't particularly like preserves because I can buy birds and virtually do the same thing myself...but it's fun sometimes.

Was hoping to put together a SD trip this year but likely cannot due to work commitments :(

Numbers broke down like this

2 weeks - a week to let pup bump and a week to hunt, hopefully

Free hunting grounds..lots of it as I am married to a South Dakota girl (Aberdeen) with Uncles/Cousins still there.

Airfare = 1K w/out factoring dog transport

Car rental = 1K

Lodging = 1K at best

Food/Incidentals = 1K at best

All assuming no family dependance (dinners, place to sleep and hang,etc) Minimum 4K, likely to push 5K easily

____

Driving helps and reduces the trip by about 1-2K ---we would be driving :|



Ray is spot on w/this but I don't believe he means "a guy wants to kill something and do it for free"...there is a much broader point he is trying to make...and he is right.

The guys in areas (some) that have birds are quick to puff out there chests explaining how wild birds is "real" hunting...I would say most agree however I'd be willing to bet that chest would deflate a bit if you found yourself in an area void of wild birds...it sucks but it's what it is...if you want to "hunt" and work your dog you had better begin compiling a list of people to sell you birds or set up yourself...it really really sucks.


____

JWP58 - I may be a real a-hole, but your just a dic_

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Winchey » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:14 am

I think there is merit to Ray's post. If I did not have easy access to free wild birds I would have never gotten bird dogs.

I can't afford to travel a whole lot or use the services of a preserve to the extent it would take to make bird dogs.

We don't have a release program either. Without easy access to free wild or released birds I would own duck dogs only, unless I had vast financial resources there would just be no point IMO.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by RayGubernat » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:48 am

Winchey wrote:I think there is merit to Ray's post. If I did not have easy access to free wild birds I would have never gotten bird dogs.

I can't afford to travel a whole lot or use the services of a preserve to the extent it would take to make bird dogs.

We don't have a release program either. Without easy access to free wild or released birds I would own duck dogs only, unless I had vast financial resources there would just be no point IMO.

Thank you. THAT was precisely where I was coming from.

When wild bird hunting becomes a pastime of the very rich, or of those relative few who are fortunate enough to live near areas where wild birds are plentiful on public access grounds, the availability of gundogs will shrink and I feel that the quality will suffer significantly as well.

Wild birds are a thing of the past in many urbanized parts of the country and they ain't comin' back. The population is ever increasing, making more and more inroads on open spaces...especially in those same urbanized areas. Trying to resuscitate wild bird populations near urban centers isa fool's errand and a total waste of time and money. We need to push for and support alternatives which will introduce the sport of bird dogging to new folks and get them excited enough about it to actually go out and get a dog to hunt with...or the sport will, for all intents and purposes...disappear.

RayG

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by QuillGordon » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:15 am

Wild birds?
I like their neighborhood & for the most part the solitude in which they are found.
No bull.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Chukar12 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:23 am

Beautiful picture

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Tooling » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:24 am

QuillGordon wrote:Wild birds?
I like their neighborhood & for the most part the solitude in which they are found.
No bull.

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Where is the emoticon that describes "green with envy"...that's beautiful

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Tooling » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:53 am

The best way I've come up with to replicate the "real" thing is to get in the middle of a big field as far from trees as possible and just let a good bunch of birds go. If your lucky you have good flyers of course but while compiling that list of bird suppliers you can go ahead and halve that list for good flyers. keep them in a cage and they all quit flying..it really really sucks.

Liberate 10 birds freely from the center of the field and your doing good if 6 of them don't cross the river or whatever...throwing a group of 10 birds in the air like that is literally like throwing 40/60 bucks up in the air, more for Chukars...I just don't have that kind of $$ but do it anyway..I want a bird-dog and I really like hard flying Chukars <sigh>

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by DGFavor » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:05 am

QuillGordon wrote:Wild birds?
I like their neighborhood & for the most part the solitude in which they are found.
No bull.

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(And Favor comes rushing off the bench wildly signaling for a time out). A blusky grouse?? Lionizizizing a bird you can kill with a stick, that stands in the wide open, strutting around in front of an animal that given an ounce of opportunity would kill it, as a valid bird dog quarry?? They are so, so, well, pen bird like! :wink: :lol: :lol:

That is a very cool shot man!! :mrgreen:

This thread requires quarry that pack some "teeth" and live in country with some "bite"! You know hoo-ime-talkin' bout! Inconvenient, barely accessible, back flushin', ankle breakin', knife ridge divin', push their own mother off a cliff, masked bandit fo' real fargin' muthachukkas!

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Last edited by DGFavor on Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Neil » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:17 am

For an import they are alright, you sure earn everyone you harvest.

But you don't put those rock hoppers above sharptail, do you?

May not be as hard on the hunters, but it sure proves the best dog.

I like my wild birds wild, living where God put them naturally, not as kean on translocated ones, even if a 100 years ago.

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by QuillGordon » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:27 am

Geezus, look what the wind "Blue" in... :lol:
I was sure I read an all point's search & rescue bulletin on your MIA arse.
Stick? Never in a "Blue" moon... Boot's maybe

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by DGFavor » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:32 am

But you don't put those rock hoppers above sharptail, do you?
Sharptails are Mother Natures gift to bird dogs and bird dog lovers - I put 'em on an alter!! :D


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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by DGFavor » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:34 am

QuillGordon wrote:Geezus, look what the wind "Blue" in... :lol:
I was sure I read an all point's search & rescue bulletin on your MIA arse.
Stick? Never in a "Blue" moon... Boot's maybe

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Cripes, another wallhanger!! Well done!! :mrgreen:

I been busy!!

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Re: Why do we lionize wild birds?

Post by Tooling » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:48 am

DGFavor wrote:
QuillGordon wrote:Wild birds?
I like their neighborhood & for the most part the solitude in which they are found.
No bull.

Image
(And Favor comes rushing off the bench wildly signaling for a time out). A blusky grouse?? Lionizizizing a bird you can kill with a stick, that stands in the wide open, strutting around in front of an animal that given an ounce of opportunity would kill it, as a valid bird dog quarry?? They are so, so, well, pen bird like! :wink: :lol: :lol:

That is a very cool shot man!! :mrgreen:

This thread requires quarry that pack some "teeth" and live in country with some "bite"! You know hoo-ime-talkin' bout! Inconvenient, barely accessible, back flushin', ankle breakin', knife ridge divin', push their own mother off a cliff, masked bandit fo' real fargin' muthachukkas!

Image

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http://www.vimeo.com/52982406

(Time in - Play ball!)
What an awesome post....lol

God I envy, you have no idea. I also have a pair of nephews working in Winnemucca, NV mining for Gold but see above post for costs just to take a "bleep" trip <sigh>

I am so ready to pack it up..

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