Critiquing training from a video

[isonychia]

Did a little work with the GOPRO this AM and have a few questions of advice about some training issues. It seems like if the wind is perfect, my dog shows much more confidence in his points, but will still get close and bump birds every so often. If the wind is very calm, he will get a little too close to birds and bump them quiet often. He seems to get scent soon enough, but seems unsure of himself so he works in to a pinpoint that is way to close. He is relatively steady to flush but is also getting pretty sticky in this field.

Tomorrow what I will try to do is run him through the field empty, then go back and plant birds and run him through again, this time releasing birds at 25-30 yards and nicking him if he does bump them. Any ideas or suggestions to this approach?

Here is a video to see more of what I am talking about: Sticky up until the first bird, and then he bumps the second at about 5 feet (should have released earlier but was trying to interpret my dog's intentions) Thanks for anyone with the patience!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxZcUGJJ ... e=youtu.be

[shags]

Any way that you could plant slightly dizzied tethered birds instead of using launchers? Your dog seems to catch scent from quite a distance, but I don't like how he's so loose and sloppy at first; then he roads in and tightens up nicely. If it were my dog, I'd whistle him on ( or verbal command, whatever you train by) like a relocate when he first stops (if he's loose and not tight) or when he starts making game to get him closer to your bird. Then if/when he bumps, correct him. Pretty soon he'll learn to stop hard but not to press the bird. You'll need birds that will take off with too much pressure from the dog; they will teach him to stop at the proper distance.

As for the stickiness, that's just part and parcel with training fields. The dog knows he's being set up and is cautious. You can try happy timing only sessions there, or mix in other areas so he's never sure what's going on. Happy time with all his training clothes on so he won't make that connection, too

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

Shags is spot on. Your dog looks good in the video. Better timing on your part is what's needed. Those birds need to leave quicker when he moves.

Doug

[jasonw99]

is your dog whoa broke? dont let him take all those steps. if he starts roading in or creeping in launch the bird and whoa him. He will learn real quick if he smells a bird he better stop or its flying away. i would have launched the bird when he was in the road and was on point then started moving again because he lost scent. Pigeons are stinky birds and dogs can smell them far away. when you start running on wild birds or even planted quail he wont smell them so far away. my rule of thumb is point on first scent and no self relocating,

also just curious do you always plant near the road? you will end up teaching him to hunt roads and not objectives.

[DonF]

You got remote traps and letting him get that close to the bird? You are teaching him he can! Your job is to know where the bird is and make sure it's out of there if he doesn't get it right. It looks to me like you have been willing to let him take steps to see if he finally would stop. Answer is yes he will, when he get's ready. Your dog does not understand that he is the cause of the bird moving and by letting him approach so close you are confirming that he can get closer so he does. Once he's in the scent cone, you should know it, it's your job. If he infringes on the bird at all, pop it out. You watch him as your coming in, if he so much as glances at you, pop the bird. It is his movement that causes the bird to flush.

Nice training grounds. When he get's sticky on you, keep walking and ignore him. Plant the birds farther out and wider, get him away from the road. Convenient for you to walk but he spends to much time on the road. And quit talking to him so much while he's running. You're doing a good job just a few little things that will make a difference.

Good job of taking the bird from him. People should let the dog hold the bird a moment when their dog gets back with it but what a lot do is get it out of the dogs mouth as quick as they can. That can turn into a ugly problem with the dog munching down and trying to hold onto the bird. People get in to big a hurry to put one bird behind them and get on to the next.

[isonychia]

No he isn't whoa broke, I am using Mo's method, I can get him to "stand" still with the collar. At first there I was letting him pinpoint the bird, he is so sticky I am not sure when he is taking himself seriously, but today I will work on releasing them much earlier, thanks for the advice. Also, I plant between 0-75 yards of the road, where we hunt grouse, I walk the old logging roads and I am trying to train him to break off the road from me, if I walk the field he quarters naturally, but when I'm on the road he seems to stick on it, any suggestions?

[DonF]

Get off the road and walk the field until he is hunting the field more. As he does that better, work your way back to the road. That's a nice dog, just needs some tweeking.

[whatsnext]

It looks like you need to break the routine , he knows where the birds are and is anticipating the find if that makes any sense and as far as his relocating or re positioning on the bird i agree with everyone else that you should be better with your timing with the launcher. I believe if you got him on a decent amount of wild birds it would stop some of his unnecessary foot steps because the wild birds would not tolerate it and the scent wouldn't be so overwhelming but i am used to pheasants and quail not grouse so it may be different but i doubt it.

[isonychia]

What should I do if he points in the wrong direction but is already 30 yards from the bird?

[DonF]

You mean you know he's not in the scent cone? I walk away! The dog can stand there or go, that's up to the dog. Very important to keep track of the wind and the location on the birds. You do that and he can't BS you with a stand like that.

[deseeker]

I'm guessing you are planting your birds by driving your truck down the road, stopping where you are going to plant the bird and walking straight out to where you are putting the launcher. You dog might be smart and is figuring out when he hits your scent that there is a bird around, gets cautious, and roads in on your scent. I've got a couple that will follow my tracks exactly to where I plant birds. Try driving past where you are going to put the launcher, walk straight out for 50 yards and then walk back 50 yards towards the direction you are going to bring the dog from, then put your launcher down and retrace your original steps back to your truck. That way when you bring your dog in, he is going to get bird scent, before he runs into your scent and starts getting cautious.

We had a guy in our britt club that always wanted the bird planter to use one of his horses to plant birds off of-- his dog recognized his horse's scent and would cue off it to find where the birds were planted.

[isonychia]

Im walking in all of my birds from the gate that closes that road to the public.

[ibbowhunting]

I would run the dog over the training grounds without planting any birds first then put the dog up then plant the bird an rerun the same ground. my britt would find my trails from planting and make a bee line right to the bird, so me and her would cover then grounds first to flood the area with our scent not just my trails, like others said Id try to say of roads or trails also, I would bet the stickyness will go away on new training grounds, if it don't he hunting your scent first

[Munster]

I think the dog looks good too.

But the set up is to stale, boring and slow. I dont think you would work a wild bird so slow...... Get there, work the bird, keep the dog guessing, honest and on his toes. SOmetimes if he hits the scent, cut the bird loose right away. make it fun and make him think.

[CDN_Cocker]

Looks like he has a killer nose!

[Elkhunter]

I would get him off those stinking pigeons!

He knows your looking for pigeons, thats why he is sneaking around the bushes. Take him up in the mtn and get him on some wild grouse, if thats what your gonna hunt. Dont waste time with pigeons.

[isonychia]

Yeah by the time the snow was off, the birds were mating, by the time the chicks were big enough, I only had a few weekends, we got into one group, but I had some bad luck finding birds pre-season this year. That is ok, hunting season is just around the corner and I know how to not shoot a bird if I HAVE to :roll: