Biting the bullet on insurance

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isonychia
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Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by isonychia » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:02 pm

4 months ago I looked into pet insurance, not with all my research finding a good accident plan and thinking 28 bucks a month was just too much, I opted out. Then 2 months ago we had an accident that cost me $500, and having now found a good accident plan from petsbest at $10 a month, I knoiw if I had fond the same plan 4 months ago I would have bought it. I got a promo email for some plan through petsbest today that had the accident only on there, they sure did hide it!

MY QUESTION is...
Conditions caused by racing, coursing, commercial guarding or organized fighting
The above is not covered, coursing would not and could not be grouped in with pointing birds could it?

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ezzy333
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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:15 pm

Find the best insurance plan you can find then put the amount of the premium in a special bank account and forget about the insurance. Just keep putting that amount away and see if you come out ahead. At least 75% and probably closer to 90% will come out ahead by keeping your money instead of givomg it to someone else that you know is making money.

Ezzy

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Chukar12
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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by Chukar12 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:26 pm

My recent heat stroke episode cost me about 2500 bucks...my VPI insurance policy covered about 300....it is important to look at the per claim AND the allowable cost for the diagnosis...my policy is getting cancelled.

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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by RoostersMom » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:36 pm

We keep a savings account just for the dog vet issues. Wish I'd had insurance on the pointer when she had the seed awn issue - that was more expensive than the cost of our used Tahoe. However, having all 8 of them with insurance - we wouldn't come out ahead with insurance, especially with the way they refuse to pay claims. Seems like there are few really good plans out there.

I'm with Ezzy - a savings account just for the dog emergencies. We've had 3 major emergencies in 13 years - owning 8 dogs....not a bad ratio I don't think.

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displaced_texan
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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by displaced_texan » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:20 pm

isonychia wrote:4 months ago I looked into pet insurance, not with all my research finding a good accident plan and thinking 28 bucks a month was just too much, I opted out. Then 2 months ago we had an accident that cost me $500, and having now found a good accident plan from petsbest at $10 a month, I knoiw if I had fond the same plan 4 months ago I would have bought it. I got a promo email for some plan through petsbest today that had the accident only on there, they sure did hide it!

MY QUESTION is...
Conditions caused by racing, coursing, commercial guarding or organized fighting
The above is not covered, coursing would not and could not be grouped in with pointing birds could it?
I'd call and ask...

To the line of reasoning that you should just save the money, it depends on the policy. A policy that isn't much and would cover things like snakebite or heat stroke, major lacerations could very easily be worth it. It doesn't take much to add up to over the $120 a year that saving a $10 premium every month would get you. I don't think I've ever had an unplanned vet visit that wasn't that much.

But then again, Ezzy knows everything, so I probably shouldn't even be questioning his advice.

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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:05 pm

But then again, Ezzy knows everything, so I probably shouldn't even be questioning his advice.
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displaced_texan Rank: 4X Champion Posts: 696Joined: 17 Aug 2007, 23:57Location: Mobilehoma

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Just think how lucky you are to know someone that knows everything. Most of us have never had that happen.

Ezzy

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displaced_texan
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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by displaced_texan » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:31 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
But then again, Ezzy knows everything, so I probably shouldn't even be questioning his advice.
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Just think how lucky you are to know someone that knows everything. Most of us have never had that happen.

Ezzy
I really am very lucky!

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roaniecowpony
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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by roaniecowpony » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:03 am

isonychia wrote:MY QUESTION is...
Conditions caused by racing, coursing, commercial guarding or organized fighting
The above is not covered, coursing would not and could not be grouped in with pointing birds could it?

From Webster's:
Definition of COURSING
the pursuit of running game with dogs that follow by sight instead of by scent

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Hattrick
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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by Hattrick » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:08 am

So basically they cover nothing

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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by RayGubernat » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:52 am

Hattrick wrote:So basically they cover nothing
BINGO!!

Pet insurance is a lot like dental insurance...only a lot worse. With dental insurance, if you need a root canal and a crown, or a bridge, even the higher end of coverages only covers about half of the costs.

Before you buy ANY kind of insurance, home, personal property, scheduled and unscheduled jewelry, auto, health, liability, etc., ask the following questions:

1) What does your policy NOT cover?

Please provide a list of things that are NOT covered. They have such lists... believe it. They just don't want the average policyholder to have the same list.

2) On the things that the policy does cover, what are the limits of liability and what are the copays or deductibles?

Pease provide a list of those deductibles and limits of liability. They have those lists too.

You will be amazed at the length of the lists of things that are not covered and only covered to a certain extent. You may also be shocked, especially in things like homeowners, at the limits of liability for certain things.

Let me be perfectly clear...I am not against insurance at all. But paying premiums without knowing all the facts can give one a false sense of security because you almost always are led to believe your coverage is better than it actually is. That is salesmanship.

It is really important to know what your loss exposure, or benefit payment actually is.

RayG
Last edited by RayGubernat on Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by rinker » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:49 am

I am employed in the insurance industry. I am not 'anit-insurance', but I would not buy pet insurance and I would not recommend that any one else buy pet insurance. I will try to give you a few tips to keep your vet bills down.

Find someone that is experienced with dogs or animals in general that you trust. When you have a minor concern discuss it with that person before going to the vet. It may be nothing, or it may be something that you can deal with easily if you know how.

Find a down to earth country vet. Do not use a vet who caters to wealthy women and their french poodles.

Here is where this post is going to get unpopular. Know what your dog is worth. If one of my dogs was in a situation where there were only two options, spend a couple of thousand dollars for treatment, or the dog will die. I would realize that the dog has had a good life, tell him good bye, and say a little prayer for his soul. I would then buy a puppy or young dog for a fraction of the cost of the treatment.

I have had 5 to 10 dogs at all times for the past 25 years. I have had two dogs put down, and both were very old. I have taken care of a lot of minor health issues my self.

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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by topher40 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:54 am

+1 Rinker. The right thing isnt always popular. :wink: When an animal begins to take food off my table then I eat them. :twisted: JK!

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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by roaniecowpony » Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:41 am

rinker wrote: ...
Here is where this post is going to get unpopular. Know what your dog is worth. If one of my dogs was in a situation where there were only two options, spend a couple of thousand dollars for treatment, or the dog will die. I would realize that the dog has had a good life, tell him good bye, and say a little prayer for his soul. I would then buy a puppy or young dog for a fraction of the cost of the treatment.

...

Rinker,
I agree with your points. I know you didn't imply anyone else use your number, and I would not put a $ amount out there for anyone else's dog either. If Tom Seleck had a choice of putting down a dog of his or paying $xxxxx to save him, that's his choice. I would have a different number, as would you. My number is different than yours and my wife's number may be different than mine (a larger number I bet) Guess who would win that one? :)

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isonychia
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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by isonychia » Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:44 am

I agree with everyone about saving insead of insurance. I would take that approach if i myself had a steady income. For now $10that a month os worthwhile. I looked through the fine print, just the fact that it covers snake bites makes it worth the nominal monthly premium! If they do pull a fast one on me... at least its only a 120little dolllar a year gamble. Thats 2 tanks of gas.

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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by S&J gsp » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:31 am

rinker wrote:I am employed in the insurance industry. I am not 'anit-insurance', but I would not buy pet insurance and I would not recommend that any one else buy pet insurance. I will try to give you a few tips to keep your vet bills down.

Find someone that is experienced with dogs or animals in general that you trust. When you have a minor concern discuss it with that person before going to the vet. It may be nothing, or it may be something that you can deal with easily if you know how.

Find a down to earth country vet. Do not use a vet who caters to wealthy women and their french poodles.

Here is where this post is going to get unpopular. Know what your dog is worth. If one of my dogs was in a situation where there were only two options, spend a couple of thousand dollars for treatment, or the dog will die. I would realize that the dog has had a good life, tell him good bye, and say a little prayer for his soul. I would then buy a puppy or young dog for a fraction of the cost of the treatment.

I have had 5 to 10 dogs at all times for the past 25 years. I have had two dogs put down, and both were very old. I have taken care of a lot of minor health issues my self.
The best advice I've seen in a long time for 120 dollars I could treat about 50 snake bites but now my old vet is gone and the ones I've found lately are all about money not animals

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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by Neil » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:49 am

All insurance must take in more in premiums + interest than they pay out - ALL.

So in every case the odds are excellent that we would be $ ahead to self-insure with a savings account.

Despite spending thousands each year on insurance, I am against it as a concept. I do not like to bet on bad things happening to me.

Neil

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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by jimbo&rooster » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:30 am

We have a farm acct (savings), It is used to cover the cost of unforseen expenses associated with livestock. We put in a percentage from every beef sold, a few bucks here and there in addition, etc.. We dont use this for basic vet costs or anual vet bills, but when our Sarplaninac hung in a fence over nite and had to have his foot saved, or when my wifes old barrel horse ran into an agled T-Post we had the $$ to fix it.

As far as knowing the value of a given animal, I cant agree more. I am as guilty as anyone of dumping $ into a particular illness/injury to fix it, but at some point the cost well outweighs the value of the animal, and its time to cut your losses.

Jim

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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:39 pm

I have had somewhere near 5 dogs on average for 60 years. At 10 per month for each that would be 600 per year and then for 60 years it would be 36000 in my pocket rather than the insurance companies pocket. In that time I have had one instance of a bill over 300 dollars. I would guess my total expense would be some where near 6000 so you can see where I would stand.

Ezzy

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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:08 pm

ezzy333 wrote:I have had somewhere near 5 dogs on average for 60 years. At 10 per month for each that would be 600 per year and then for 60 years it would be 36000 in my pocket rather than the insurance companies pocket. In that time I have had one instance of a bill over 300 dollars. I would guess my total expense would be some where near 6000 so you can see where I would stand.

Ezzy
I need the name of your Vet. I just had a male collected and that bill was $400.

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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by Neil » Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:10 pm

ezzy333 wrote:I have had somewhere near 5 dogs on average for 60 years. At 10 per month for each that would be 600 per year and then for 60 years it would be 36000 in my pocket rather than the insurance companies pocket. In that time I have had one instance of a bill over 300 dollars. I would guess my total expense would be some where near 6000 so you can see where I would stand.

Ezzy
And you are not even considering the interest that should be added over 60 years. The $36,000 is more likely well over 100 grand.

But I think you can do the same math on car or homeowner's insurance. I have not had a claim on either for over 40 years. I guess some of it is piece of mind.

On the other hand despite the thousands my employer and I have paid in health insurance, I am ahead. 3 major surgeries were bankrupting expensive.

Neil

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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by Vision » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:01 pm

isonychia wrote:I agree with everyone about saving insead of insurance. I would take that approach if i myself had a steady income. For now $10that a month os worthwhile. I looked through the fine print, just the fact that it covers snake bites makes it worth the nominal monthly premium! If they do pull a fast one on me... at least its only a 120little dolllar a year gamble. Thats 2 tanks of gas.

The statistical odds of ever needing insurance because of a snake bite are miniscule.

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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:28 pm

Vision wrote:
isonychia wrote:I agree with everyone about saving insead of insurance. I would take that approach if i myself had a steady income. For now $10that a month os worthwhile. I looked through the fine print, just the fact that it covers snake bites makes it worth the nominal monthly premium! If they do pull a fast one on me... at least its only a 120little dolllar a year gamble. Thats 2 tanks of gas.
The statistical odds of ever needing insurance because of a snake bite are miniscule.
That all depends are where you live and what you do with your dogs. 2 rattlesnake bites in the past 5 years and you may change your story.

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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by displaced_texan » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:17 pm

Vision wrote:
The statistical odds of ever needing insurance because of a snake bite are miniscule.
I live in copperhead country, and spend a good amount of time in rattlesnake country.

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Hattrick
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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by Hattrick » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:45 pm

This a helpfull thread. It would be nice if we could here from sum folks that have had claims with insurance. If there is anyone floating around.

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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by RoostersMom » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:57 pm

I second the "knowing the value" of the dog thing - and what you personally are willing to give up for the animal. Cable t.v. - yep.... eating out - yep.....new clothes, haircuts, entertainment.....yep. If I had kids, the answers would likely be different - but in my case, we are lucky enough to be able to cut costs and absorb a bad dog issue without starving. Our dog that had the major surgery that was so expensive has lived another 4 years and hunted in an additional 5 states that we'd never hunted in since then. She has brought us a lot of joy - and it was worth the belt tightening and the beans and rice to get her all fixed up. I wouldn't make that same decision for her now, though - she is 13 and my husband jokes that she has $50 left in her lifetime account!

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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by AzDoggin » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:34 am

Hattrick wrote:This a helpfull thread. It would be nice if we could here from sum folks that have had claims with insurance. If there is anyone floating around.
Years ago, we had pet insurance and made some claims on it. We were extremely disappointed in the results. While the insurance advertised that they covered whatever % of the vet costs for certain claims, you have to search in the very fine print to see what they mean. What they mean is that they pay whatever % of costs as defined by their "schedule" of reasonable costs. Well, our mutt - a dachshund with crushed discs - had very pricey surgery, and the insurance informed us that the fees charged by the surgeon were excessive compared to their "schedule of fees," so they paid the 60% or whatever it was, of the "schedule" amount which ended up being far less than we were expecting. Needless to say, we cancelled and haven't considered it since.

Some lessons are learned the hard way after major reductions of wallet contents. :oops:

I see this situation as similar to the costs of car maintenance. Toss a few bucks into savings each month for the intermittent pricier repair and you'll be covered.

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Re: Biting the bullet on insurance

Post by windswept » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:14 am

ezzy333 wrote:I have had somewhere near 5 dogs on average for 60 years. At 10 per month for each that would be 600 per year and then for 60 years it would be 36000 in my pocket rather than the insurance companies pocket. In that time I have had one instance of a bill over 300 dollars. I would guess my total expense would be some where near 6000 so you can see where I would stand.

Ezzy
I spend a bit more on vet bills than Ezzy but I do agree with his premise.
Insurance rates of any kind are calculated by the insurance companies in a manner that over time allows then to come out on top.
Save your money and pay your vet bills out of pocket and with 9 out 0f 10 dogs you will spend less.

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