Today's Top Brittany Sires

[RCB]

I just received a book called the American Brittany that covers dogs up until 2010. Really enjoy the book since it talks about all the dogs I hear about from across the country and includes pictures of them. There is one chapter called Top Producers of field champions that was interesting. As we all would have guessed Beans Blaze was the top producer with 46 FC followed by Ban-Dee (35), Rimardas Tradmark (33), Perrys Rustic Prince (28), and Tequilas Joker (23).

This chapter got me thinking about what dogs people would use today if they could use any dog alive and still able to produce. I know a lot of trialers out west would still want to use Redlines Tequila Smoker, although alive he is unable to produce. I am curious as what board members would consider their top 3 go to sires and why.

On a related point, I noted that Diamond Hill Dan is one of the most accomplished field trial dogs of all time but I hear he was not bred that much. I would like to ask another question of board members, what top field trial dogs of today will not be utilized much as a stud dog even though they are very accomplished and why.

[Neil]

Go to the ABC site and look at the Purina and TriTronics Dog of the Year Awards for the last few years. I would consider Chug and Jake both duals, and Oz.

There are two main reasons that top winners are not used much as stud.

1. They have not produced much in previous breedings.

2. They are out of standard and suspected of being crossbred.

Neil

[mlittle]

What about dogs that are out of standard, but have been DNA'd Neil? From what I hear, there are dogs out there like that now, that are producing dogs in standard, and producing winners. Thoughts? I really do respect your opinions and want to know what you think. I read a lot of posts on here, and when it comes to Brittanys and trials, yours are pretty solid. I would love to hear from Joe as well. Arlette, I am sure you have a good reasonable opinion as well.

What about the good producers of good bird dogs, that have some genetic issues? Hips for instance? Are they looked upon as negatively as they probably should be?
I am a big Brittany fan. But I see some flaws overlooked that I think shouldnt be, if you are wanting good dogs that will hold up over time.

Not just in the Brittany world. It is in Bird dogs in general where some genetic flaws are overlooked by many.

How much does who handles them or who breeds them make a difference?

I look forward to the responses.

[Neil]

Unless the sire and dam have their DNA on file, DNA shows nothing. It is just the starting point.

It is very rare for an out of standard sire to not produce at least a good % of pups that are also over sized, usually most of the males are. I guess how much, matters, 1/2" doesn't mean much, 2" does.

Genetic health issues are very important to all I know.

Yes breeder, owner, trainer and handler matter a great deal.

Be clear, I am not saying I know some of the winning dogs are cross bred, or even that they are out sized, just explaining why I think they are not being used as stud.

Not sure where you are going with this.

If you are looking for a stud or pup, go watch him run.

[Neil]

Ah, I reread you OP.

I think the reason Dan was not used much was where he lived and was campaigned, mostly Gun Dog country. I have never heard anything about his size or breeding. He was a great dog.

[RCB]

The reason I chose Diamond Hill's Dan, as an example, was based on him being way more accomplished than I thought. I knew of his national championships but did not know that he also won 15 american field championships and 4 pheasant and 2 quail championships until going through the new book. All in all he had 45 overall placements, with 28 being firsts. I would have assumed that breeders would have flocked to him based on this performance records. Neil, did not know he was in a part of the country that did not promote all age dogs.

[ezzy333]

Dan was a very good dog but not "pretty". I think his location plus the people involved may have turned some people off. His record speaks for it self on his field abilities.

Ezzy

[Neil]

Dan was a very good dog but not "pretty". I think his location plus the people involved may have turned some people off. His record speaks for it self on his field abilities.

Ezzy

About all I ever saw of him was his butt, as he was headed over the hill or we rode up to him on point - he sure looked pretty to me and the other judges. I don't recall him being particularly large.

Truth is none of them are used a lot as stud, there is just not much of a market for well bred Britts.

And an even more important truth is I don't know, just guessing.

[orbirdhunter]

I don't know who the best sires are....But I am gonna get to watch Joe run NAFC FC AFC/Am Fld Ch Spanish corrals sundance kid, and sonny's patch this weekend. And that is pretty good to me....

[RCB]

I also look forward to watching Joe's dogs run but I will wait until there closer to home here in So Cal . I am really interested in watching Sonny go as he is already a pretty accomplished dog for being so young and has produced some nice young ones. He and Patch are definitely dogs to watch.

[ezzy333]

When picking a sire much of it depends on the female. If I had 3 females I very likely would pick a different male for each. Top sires often would depend on physical, genetic, and what matches with your females in those areas. All comes down to the fact there really isn't one top sire for all dogs.

Ezzy

[Meller]

Shambo's Dark Shadow might be one to consider!

[Neil]

Shambo's Dark Shadow might be one to consider!

One of the greatest of all time, but he passed last year, so no more ladies for him, He is sure to go into the BFTHF this year. It will be an honor to vote for him.

[RCB]

In the recent past there has been multiple national winners like Just Call Me Roy, Diamond Hills Dan, Maxwell's Blew By You II, and Hits All Jack'D Up. Are there any dogs running today that you see as "new" multiple national champs material? I will start by say Joe's dog Sonny must have the stuff and has plenty of time to get the other one.

[Maurice]

Piney Run Art is still running. I have also heard good things about both of Joe's dogs

Mo

[Carolina Gundogs]

The last time I was over at Kyle and Ben's place, Kyle showed me a male out of Martha's (owner of Piney Run Art and Puney Run kennels), dogs that they had run in only one trial and the dog qualified to run in the Nationals from the one trial. Kyle really liked this dog. I believe Martha may have a great thing going with her kennel's breeding program.

[Neil]

In the recent past there has been multiple national winners like Just Call Me Roy, Diamond Hills Dan, Maxwell's Blew By You II, and Hits All Jack'D Up. Are there any dogs running today that you see as "new" multiple national champs material? I will start by say Joe's dog Sonny must have the stuff and has plenty of time to get the other one.

By "winner" do you mean a placement? We have not at a 2x NFC since Bandee. Roy won both the NFC and the NAFC, and of course Chuck was a 2x NAFC. And in the Gun Dog there is Jack.

But to answer about a repeat as NFC, we never know until it happens, we have never been good at predictions, Many thought Chug was a sure bet.

I put more stock in the Dog of the Year than just the one trial in Booneville. They have to win from North to South.

[Karen]

Don't forget Cruise in the NGDC....he's a 2x winner (or is that who you meant when you said Jack...Hit's All Jack'd Up = Cruise)

[Neil]

Don't forget Cruise in the NGDC....he's a 2x winner (or is that who you meant when you said Jack...Hit's All Jack'd Up = Cruise)

Thanks for the correction, I have trouble remembering the names of my own dogs, sometimes I do a roll call, using names of dogs that have been dead for years.

[jetjockey]

By "winner" do you mean a placement? We have not at a 2x NFC since Bandee. Roy won both the NFC and the NAFC, and of course Chuck was a 2x NAFC. And in the Gun Dog there is Jack.

Not true. Diamond Hill Dan was the last 2X NFC. He won in 2000 and 2004.

[Neil]

Yep, sure did, I just forgot. I was there. I need to quit relaying on my memory and check things.

Interesting aside, I was also there in 1975 when most thought Bandee had won it a 3rd time, he was lost to the front at Conway, Jill deservedly won.

Thanks.

[jetjockey]

Just because a dog won Nationals or the Purina award doesn't mean the dog will produce either. Look at how many NC's have come from good, but not great breeding, and look at how many NC's never produced. It takes many dogs a while to really shine on the trial circuit. By the time people start to take notice and breed to the dog, it takes another few years to find out what the prodegee will look like. I know a dog exactly like that. He wasnt bred much until later in life. He then produced a nice litter that has done very well, but by the time people took notice he was only bred 2-3 more times. He was a really nice AA dog but seems to have produced even better, but now it's too late.

Look a the Top 10 in the current Purina Award and I believe you will find 10 different sires.

[Neil]

And so much depends on if the pups are given a chance to compete with the right trainer/handler.

I bred a dog none of you have every heard of to a hunting female; produced 3 FC's with over 200 placements to prove your point.

There is way too much of if it is not from my kennel I'm not interested in the Brittany world that is not there with pointers.

[jetjockey]

I agree. With that said, the first time we breed my pup it will be from within my Pros kennel. The second time I might like to look outside, maybe even use AI with a well known producer. I'm only plannig on breeding her 2, maybe 3 times, so I want to make sure we get it right.

[Chukar12]

I am curious as what board members would consider their top 3 go to sires and why.

I believe that access and exposure plays a big part. There are a number of pups doing very well by Sonny out here in the west, that being said he has been bred a number of times for a dog so young and many of those pups are in the right hands. I am confident in his ability to produce and fascinated by the differences I see in litters. While each and everyone shows positive traits and I do have some requests for repeat breedings, some of the pups mature at remarkably different rates...same sire, different dam. My little Patch dog is a great nick between Sonny and a CH/AFC bitch I own that is Lobo bred, he is a very smart biddable little dog that is dual quality, I look forward to trying him soon with the right female.

If you look at Futurity results across the country, you will find that Diamond Hill Dan shows up in a few of the dogs pretty close up. I think it is also worthy of note to see that many of these dogs are descendants within a few generations of Sawtooth Sam. Sonny is heavily line bred by Sam, his sire was a NGDC San Dee's Blazing Shane who is the product of a half brother and sister by Sam. I thinks its also telling to note that Bean's Blaze is double Ban-Dee bred pretty close up. I gravitate to these dogs and Scipio/Lobo lines because I am familiar with them. They do what i need them to do in the desert.

My experience outside the west is limited to my observations at the National Championships and running into Ed Tillson's string and Jimmy Berneathy's in Az. Ed always has nice dogs dual quality as he and Jessica refine the TJ line and have many duals to their credit. Copley/Robin Tomasi has bred some pups that are most certainly nice dual dogs in the west, most inclined to be the gun dog type. Chuck has somepups developing nicely and Arlette is working on that line.

At the National Championships and I speak only of pure field run...talking sires only and this has no reflection on conformation or the ABC mission (and I acknowledge that most brittany owners are not bench or akc field event supporters). I have liked the consistency of OZ II, Piney Run Dogs and Ned Pepper cathes my eye more and more.

[AZ Brittany Guy]

Don't forget Cruise in the NGDC....he's a 2x winner (or is that who you meant when you said Jack...Hit's All Jack'd Up = Cruise)

Thanks for the correction, I have trouble remembering the names of my own dogs, sometimes I do a roll call, using names of dogs that have been dead for years.

Boy, I'm glad to hear you say that! LOL

[AZ Brittany Guy]

Not to stray too far from the subject, but who do you think the current "Blue Hens" are. Many of the old time Brittany folks tell me that the females are just as , if not more important. Who are the new Gem State Jills, Minniehanah's Tammy, Way-Kan Jill, Devilish Megs?

[kninebirddog]

I am curious as what board members would consider their top 3 go to sires and why.

As for Top 3 There are many quality dogs out there...Hard to just limit down to a few but sometimes location can be a factor as getting dogs to those stud dogs can be a challenge specially if they are on the road being campaigned

I really like the cross I have found between the Nolans Last Bullet females to Maxwell's Blew By You aka Chuck even Chuck to my Lobo x Redlines tequila Smoker breeding has been pretty Nice also
So far 2 FC's , American Field Champion, a Show Champion and a couple with some Show placements best of Breed, 2 NAVDHA titles an UFTA Amateur Champion there are a few working on their NSTRA CH's then for the Derby Wins 2012 Western All Age Futurity Winner and Runner up then 2013 4th Place Gun dog placement 2011 Bill West Classic Derby Winner Oh and don't forget the happy hunters that have Chuck pups

I am also looking at Sonny (Spanish Corral Sundance Kid) in the future as Chuck is getting older I may have to watch it with Sonny though would hate to see anyone getting all riled up over line breeding on Nolans Last bullet now . Maybe even Patch since he seems to be showing up his dad in trials

Like I said there is so many potentials out there Hard to guess sometimes who to go to or maybe take a chance on but I rather look at a stud that wasn't bred much but the ratio of how many times he was always produced something versus a dog that was bred to a bunch and sure there are the winning dogs but it took a bunch of breedings to get there.




All I know is that it is fun to go watch the dogs when I get a chance.