GSP Education

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Tooling
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GSP Education

Post by Tooling » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:08 am

Educate me.

Not going too deep into branches please share the virtues of the following GSP lines (in the broad sense)...for example..big runners, hard charging, thorough search, stylish, backing, under foot, biddable, big runners BUT biddable, big runners that are freaking gone but capable and staunch, WATER WATER WATER, etc,etc,etc..feel free to share house manners as well and virtues that may be lacking. I am going to list some of the heavy hitters and feel free to add/suggest lines which are noteworthy as well as branches of noteworthy mention) Also feel free to assign current lines to there basic lineage.

1. Slick

2.Rusty (Clown , Tonelli, ...)

3.Hustler (Stadivarius B..)

4.Hege Haus

5. Moosegard (Checkmate , Jigs , Tip Top..)

6.

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ezzy333
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Re: GSP Education

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:00 am

Tooling wrote:Educate me.

Not going too deep into branches please share the virtues of the following GSP lines (in the broad sense)...for example..big runners, hard charging, thorough search, stylish, backing, under foot, biddable, big runners BUT biddable, big runners that are freaking gone but capable and staunch, WATER WATER WATER, etc,etc,etc..feel free to share house manners as well and virtues that may be lacking. I am going to list some of the heavy hitters and feel free to add/suggest lines which are noteworthy as well as branches of noteworthy mention) Also feel free to assign current lines to there basic lineage.

1. Slick

2.Rusty (Clown , Tonelli, ...)

3.Hustler (Stadivarius B..)

4.Hege Haus

5. Moosegard (Checkmate , Jigs , Tip Top..)

6.
You are asking for characteristics of individual dogs. You can find them within most any line.

Ezzy

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Tooling
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Re: GSP Education

Post by Tooling » Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:44 am

No doubt about it..some of these dogs are gone but in some cases witnesses to them are not necessarily lost to the ages. What was Rusty like? What lines of his progeny are closest in virtue today etc. Was he a machine that couldn't turn it off at home so he was a p.i.t.a. or did he have it all? How do his lines compare to Hustler lines in general. Definitely a very broad question. GSP's have gone so many different directions branching from several notables. I'm familiar with Rusty lines having owned several of them over the years...no doubt each individual is different. I have one now that has his basic foundation in Hustler and Rusty lines and he is a really really nice pup. I call him a big runner but that's a matter of perspective...I'd say he's a natural 250/300 yard dog but is biddable and have him ranging at about 60-150 yds depending on conditions as I am on foot. As he ages I am certain he will range w/out my help whether we're chasing Woodcock/Grouse or quail in the wide open because he's already showing signs of doing this. He's fast, birdy as heck, slams point, competitive, natural as I've seen, a front seat sitter in the truck, silent in his kennel and happy to kennel up anytime/anywhere, sleeps comfortably at my feet and whines going apey ONLY when seeing other dogs at the line before he's up or marking a bird that he doesn't get to fetch. I've put A LOT into him and have fostered everything as best I can to date. Did I just hit pay dirt w/this dog or is there something more to it? Although I see him as a big runner he pales in comparison to the 6-700 yard dogs I hear guys talking about...he is definitely bold and he is definitely independent and may have ranged that far out had I let him...but I'm glad I didn't.

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Cajun Casey
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Re: GSP Education

Post by Cajun Casey » Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:04 pm

You need to research your definition of "line" better. Putting Rawhide's Clown subordinate to Dixieland's Rusty makes no sense. They were both Moesgaard dogs, from different places and decades.

They are all dogs. How they are developed contributes more than anything else to the end product.

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Re: GSP Education

Post by Ms. Cage » Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:31 pm

When do we call a line of dogs a line and when is it not a line anymore? Checkmate dogs seem to 50% Moesgaard and many in our database are crossed to Windy Hills Prince James. Maybe Checkmate would be their own line. Every line starts and is built off of another line or group of dogs. Because Hustler is back in a pedigree couple of times does this make a dog hustler lines? Might it be best discribed as Hillhaven Line?

Moesgaard is a definate as is Hege Haus. We haven't seen a true Moesgaard breeding (imo) since Moesgaard Dee Dee Jackson and Big Oaks Bumper. How many folks were around to see some of the Moesgaard dogs run or own one, Same with Hustler. I think a line of dogs that is more present in GSP world today would be Vetters Sharp Shooters and Brenda and Rick's kennel Walnut Hills. Folks seem to feed off of what was vs what is today.

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Carolina Gundogs
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Re: GSP Education

Post by Carolina Gundogs » Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:32 pm

Tooling, if you look at the pedigrees for the dogs titling in whatever venue you are interested in, you might be able to draw your own conclusions.
Are you in search of a specific characteristic In a GSP?

Good luck in your search.

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Tooling
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Re: GSP Education

Post by Tooling » Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:59 pm

Ms. Cage wrote:When do we call a line of dogs a line and when is it not a line anymore? Checkmate dogs seem to 50% Moesgaard and many in our database are crossed to Windy Hills Prince James. Maybe Checkmate would be their own line. Every line starts and is built off of another line or group of dogs. Because Hustler is back in a pedigree couple of times does this make a dog hustler lines? Might it be best discribed as Hillhaven Line?

Moesgaard is a definate as is Hege Haus. We haven't seen a true Moesgaard breeding (imo) since Moesgaard Dee Dee Jackson and Big Oaks Bumper. How many folks were around to see some of the Moesgaard dogs run or own one, Same with Hustler. I think a line of dogs that is more present in GSP world today would be Vetters Sharp Shooters and Brenda and Rick's kennel Walnut Hills. Folks seem to feed off of what was vs what is today.
Trying to educate myself on what was and what that has transformed into today...been off several years trying to earn a living...definitely a tough question as the generalization is huge..I read people chime in to litter announcements all the time saying "those should be _____" etc. Not looking to get into semantics about lines etc....is there a GSP NOT back to Mooesgard (speaking figuratively)

I say Stradivarius Baroque you think?

I say Slick you think?

It's too general I guess

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Cajun Casey
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Re: GSP Education

Post by Cajun Casey » Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:05 pm

You say Slick, I think pointer. If the genes fit, wear 'em, baby. There are several books that trace the development of the breed from post-WWII through the early 1980s.

GSP7
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Re: GSP Education

Post by GSP7 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:26 pm

wow
Last edited by GSP7 on Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jasonw99
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Re: GSP Education

Post by jasonw99 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:04 pm

you say clown I think pointer

this can go on and on and on.

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Tooling
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Re: GSP Education

Post by Tooling » Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:10 pm

jasonw99 wrote:you say clown I think pointer

this can go on and on and on.
Yeah..it could

Call me crazy but I don't think a little long tail in the woodpile hurts a thing and those are the lines I like. But being truthful that is also what I'm familiar with so as the consideration if adding another pup to the home begins I'm trying not to pigeon hole myself. It's pretty ez to proclaim "the best" etc based on your own familiarity which is a trap many fall into...why go through life w/blinders on :?

I like a hard charging bird slamming bold runner...so long as they are biddable. I DO NOT want a pup that is at my feet. I like a pup that can turn on like a switch but also knows down time and how to deal with the doldrums of every day life knowing how to occupy himself or lazy around happy to kennel up or go for a simple car ride to the store. I can think back to a few key days where me & pup were afield that forged the bond and stopped him from insisting on heading to the next county...no pressure just good hunting! Made all the difference and made him my dog.

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Re: GSP Education

Post by RCB » Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:40 pm

I can only talk about the dogs I had and what I saw from friends dogs. I had two dogs that had Clown as a grand parent and they both looked good on the ground. They were fast, snappy and ran but the were not per say bird finders. Do not get me wrong as they found birds but not as many as my other dogs. Besides that the one thing that bothered me the most was they were not very biddable. Looked great on the ground but I had to make them go with me for the first half hour or so. I have had 4 dogs that had Slick multiple times on the top and bottom and they were great dogs. They ran but they wanted to go with you too. They were bird dogs first and runners second. I really liked these dogs but they were a little softer than some of my other dogs. I produced some nice pups by crossing the slick dogs with what some people call Grief dogs, Grief is way back but the name has stuck with the line. A friend of mine has a great little bitch out of Chisholm Creeks Cuttin Loose who is out of a slick dog and a bitch that has some Grief in her. Again, these are my experiences and should not be broadly projected against any of the lines I spoke of.

If I was looking for another shorthair I would pick up a pup that had one parent that was line bred slick with the other out of Tonelli's Rising Sun. Slick dogs are great bird dogs that are biddable while the Sonny dogs have great style, class and run. I know some on this board would call both Slick and Sonny pointers but I like shorthairs that carry the characteristics of both these dogs/lines.

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Tooling
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Re: GSP Education

Post by Tooling » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:53 am

Precisely what I'm looking for RCB..thank you...it sounds like we like the same type of dogs and so far as breeding...you have hit the nail on the head suggesting Slick/Tonelli but I want to know more.

The pup I have now just may be the perfect dog for me as it seems at least thus far that he has the right virtues...he's a runner and left to his own device will search the entire area and find birds if they are there. He likes to do a broad search along likely areas but then starts hitting all the likely spots working his way back. Once he becomes birdy...his tenacity keeps him at it until he finds that bird and sees it D.E.D. Doesn't typically take him long to search one out as he has a great nose and on point he quivers with a flared tail at 12:00 yet has a calm about him that I think will only improve as he further matures. I am REALLY liking what I'm seeing in this dog beyond what is described here..he's just so natural and often times puts me in my place proving he is to be trusted. I've never had a Hustler dog (Stradivarius Bar. is his great Gr-Father) and I'm wondering how much of that influences his lineage which is similar to dogs I've had in the past, broadened now of course. A VonZeppelin dog is on the other side of my dogs breeding. Those I had in the past were good dogs but I can say this pup just seems to be more complete overall. I'm liking what I'm hearing about the Slick lines and there is an upcoming litter tempting me pretty good right about now. Obviously I am seeing the result of good breeding plain and simple...I'm also satisfied I've done my job bringing him to this point as he has had a ton of bird exposure..hopefully I don't "f" him up too bad going foreward :oops: Wild birds would be just what the Dr. ordered for him right about now to see if he would bump bump bump and learn steadiness on his own...he certainly seems to know what he can get away with without my help depending upon what birds are down.

And you are right...shouldn't be a broad projection, just personal experiences.

volraider
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Re: GSP Education

Post by volraider » Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:23 am

I would put Windrow Saddle Tramp on that list. He threw all-age champions and NAVHDA VC's so I would consider him also. By throwing FC's and VC's that tells me he throws run and cooperation. I have some of his grand get and they were awesome birdfinders.

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Coveyrise64
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Re: GSP Education

Post by Coveyrise64 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:18 am

volraider wrote:I would put Windrow Saddle Tramp on that list. He threw all-age champions and NAVHDA VC's so I would consider him also. By throwing FC's and VC's that tells me he throws run and cooperation. I have some of his grand get and they were awesome birdfinders.
+1.....

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