Tips ... the monetary kind

Scott Linden · Post by **Scott Linden** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:07 pm

So, the question keeps coming up when I bring guests along to a hunting lodge. I've "winged it" for years. If you are a pro guide - full or part-time - what is an appropriate tip for a day in the field?

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:17 pm

Same as you might tip a waiter, 10 percent for so so service 20 percent to whatever you feel appropriate for very good service......

I've gotten 10 dollar tip (i won't say anything my mother taught me if i didn't have anything nice to say....) to 300.....I always work hard for everyone to make their day as enjoyable and as prosperous as possible....

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:28 pm

Is it a lodge employee or is the person on per diem and tips expected? 15% is standard in the restaurant industry now.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:57 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:Is it a lodge employee or is the person on per diem and tips expected? 15% is standard in the restaurant industry now.

I would say , if someone shows you an excellent time and works hard for you and has good dogs that make the hunt enjoyable they at least deserve what a great waiter would get.....the waiter doesn't keep well trained dogs year round and allow others to shoot over them ......all the waiter does is pull on a pair of slacks and put on some shoes.......

Tyler S · Post by **Tyler S** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:11 pm

The best philosophy is don't expect a tip, treat everybody like family (until they prove otherwise) and have a good time. There is no set % or $. The guys that help us don't do it for the money, they do it because they love it and want to hunt their dogs. It's important to realize that some of the hunters have saved up all year for a couple of hunts and they are on a budget like most other folks. The guides should be getting a percentage of the hunt. If you get a tip that's just a bonus. I've got everything from nothing, a box of shells, lottery tickets, good scotch, good money, etc. Something to keep in mind though, I've never meet a rich guide.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:18 pm

Tyler S wrote:The best philosophy is don't expect a tip, treat everybody like family (until they prove otherwise) and have a good time. There is no set % or $. The guys that help us don't do it for the money, they do it because they love it and want to hunt their dogs. It's important to realize that some of the hunters have saved up all year for a couple of hunts and they are on a budget like most other folks. The guides should be getting a percentage of the hunt. If you get a tip that's just a bonus. I've got everything from nothing, a box of shells, lottery tickets, good scotch, good money, etc. Something to keep in mind though, I've never meet a rich guide.

What you type is all true, but there is a point where it's not worth doing, there is danger in guiding random folks and while 98 percent are good people and I get great enjoyment from being in the field with good folks enjoying my dogs, there has to be some sort of pay off beyond the feel good feelings, otherwise i'd just enjoy my dogs by myself and with good friends. I guess if there was no other way to enjoy your dogs yourself money might not be a consideration but add the time and miles, money, as in most things these days does play a role.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:23 pm

birddog1968 wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:Is it a lodge employee or is the person on per diem and tips expected? 15% is standard in the restaurant industry now.

I would say , if someone shows you an excellent time and works hard for you and has good dogs that make the hunt enjoyable they at least deserve what a great waiter would get.....the waiter doesn't keep well trained dogs year round and allow others to shoot over them ......all the waiter does is pull on a pair of slacks and put on some shoes.......

A great, even a good, waiter does a whole lot more than that and will get five bucks a head from me, plus a buck apiece on bar drinks. I would expect if a guided party got to shoot at the number of birds they paid for they should at least drop twenty a head in tips, a little morr if they actually hit anything that was picked up for them.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:32 pm

by a whole lot more do you mean vet the injuries sustained over a year of hunting, feeding premium feed, training to high level all in order to give the best overall experience a person can possibly have on a guided hunt, as well as educating people and their kids...

I appreciate waiters, and tip well to 20 percent but lets be realistic about the amount of prep and involvement in giving people memory that may just last a lifetime. How many waiters/waitresses do you remember 10 or 20 years later because of excellent service........If your great server moved 150 miles away do you seek them out and go to them in order to get that same level of service.

A hunt I guided Saturday allowed me to buy 2 bags of dog food and a few groceries....that to me is great. Not looking to get rich. But if it cost me time a fuel and then a dog needed any medical attention, I couldn't justify doing that for very long.

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:56 pm

Do it for good dog work not for the money. If u r worried about crazy clients then don't guide. Accidents can happen with friends and family just as easy as strangers. Tips are great dont get me wrong. But if u r doing it expecting tips then u r doing it for the wrong reasons in my opinion.

Mike.

Tyler S · Post by **Tyler S** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:57 pm

birddog1968 wrote: What you type is all true, but there is a point where it's not worth doing, there is danger in guiding random folks and while 98 percent are good people and I get great enjoyment from being in the field with good folks enjoying my dogs, there has to be some sort of pay off beyond the feel good feelings, otherwise i'd just enjoy my dogs by myself and with good friends. I guess if there was no other way to enjoy your dogs yourself money might not be a consideration but add the time and miles, money, as in most things these days does play a role.

I also agree. That line must be set by the individual or service. I posted a while back, that a guide can expect basically two types of folks, hunters and shooters. You know as well as I do you can tell one from another in about 2 minutes.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:03 pm

Tyler S wrote:
birddog1968 wrote: What you type is all true, but there is a point where it's not worth doing, there is danger in guiding random folks and while 98 percent are good people and I get great enjoyment from being in the field with good folks enjoying my dogs, there has to be some sort of pay off beyond the feel good feelings, otherwise i'd just enjoy my dogs by myself and with good friends. I guess if there was no other way to enjoy your dogs yourself money might not be a consideration but add the time and miles, money, as in most things these days does play a role.
I also agree. That line must be set by the individual or service. I posted a while back, that a guide can expect basically two types of folks, hunters and shooters. You know as well as I do you can tell one from another in about 2 minutes.

No doubt

But ya know every now and then isn't it great when a shooter see's the light and becomes a person who really starts to enjoy the dog work over the bag limit. The best is when a person catches the fever and especially a young person, its a great feeling that the experience may have recruited new blood to the past time we enjoy. That's one of the main reasons i enjoy it.

I hear what your saying mike but it isn't that black and white......Ive been doing this for almost 20 years, full time for 6 of those 20.

Tyler S · Post by **Tyler S** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:12 pm

Yep that is great, and that's one reason we keep at it. Especially kids!

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:19 pm

birddog1968 wrote:by a whole lot more do you mean vet the injuries sustained over a year of hunting, feeding premium feed, training to high level all in order to give the best overall experience a person can possibly have on a guided hunt, as well as educating people and their kids...

I appreciate waiters, and tip well to 20 percent but lets be realistic about the amount of prep and involvement in giving people memory that may just last a lifetime. How many waiters/waitresses do you remember 10 or 20 years later because of excellent service........If your great server moved 150 miles away do you seek them out and go to them in order to get that same level of service.

A hunt I guided Saturday allowed me to buy 2 bags of dog food and a few groceries....that to me is great. Not looking to get rich. But if it cost me time a fuel and then a dog needed any medical attention, I couldn't justify doing that for very long.

Would you not take an injured dog to the vet, feed premium feed, or train to a high level if you didn't guide? If you would do all those things anyway, your argument is completely invalid.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:35 pm

Fact weather i would or wouldn't is beside the point......

the point was a waiter making 15-20 percent has none of this to worry about, only putting on their clothes and going to work......Your attempt to discredit why i think a good guide deserves the same tip is whats invalid. The extra hours that I have dogs on the ground running for clients puts them at risk for all kinds of things to happen, do you think hoping to be compensated, to some degree, for those risks is unreasonable? Im not talking half a day or one day a week.....Im talking 20 plus hours a week for one dog. Ive got dogs with over 10,000 birds shot over them, the tips are theirs mostly.

Ive got one that just consumed 3 grand for an gastroc tendon rupture, did she not deserve or earn her tips? I'd bet my clients don't feel as you do and that's why they come back to see and hunt over the dogs. Not asking for some kind of sympathy for me , only consider what goes into someone guiding full time with good dogs and what it takes to maintain dogs that actually work and spend themselves for others enjoyment.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:54 pm

Would or wouldn't is precisely my point. If it's stuff you'd do anyway, no, you don't deserve special consideration for it.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:57 pm

You just decided you don't want to consider the facts and logistics of working a dog 10 times more than the average joe for others enjoyment.

By running my dogs 3 to 5 times more than i would myself they are inherently at more risk and so deserve what they earn, the fact their effort might buy me some groceries now and then is what you seem to have a problem with. Or the fact i believe they as well as myself earn what we work for.

Really don't need to justify anything, the fact people tip what they tip (without being told or asked) proves that the effort is worth something....years of doing this and receiving those tips is the proof. And dogs who day in and day out perform in good conditions and bad and produce for clients who then graciously compensate for the effort are all the justification anyone should need. , I only attempt here to explain why people might tip what they tip, as was the OP's question.....

Your opinion that guides or their dogs don't deserve consideration for it is directly refuted by years and years of clients(millions in fact) who obviously feel otherwise

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:27 pm

Don't read into my words. I never said anything more beyond the fact that if it's something you would have done otherwise (vet care, training, premium feed) then you don't deserve special consideration for it.

Tips should always be rendered for a service provided and based on the quality of the service.

My issue is acting like you deserve a tip because you do things that any responsible bird dog owner should do.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:32 pm

Your issue is you can't comprehend hunting dogs commercially.......

A trainer believes he deserves the money he works for and a guide who does it for a living feels the same way. Many hunting operations pay a minimal amount or nothing , tips is the compensation, Just like commercial charter boats.

Tooling · Post by **Tooling** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:58 pm

Funny you bring up charter boats...last time I was on one the mates were lined up at the exit once we were done literally holding their hand out for their tips...literally.

I didn't like that but maybe they got stiffed just one too many times so..

I agree with both of you however I don't believe in the whole tip system anyway...employers should be paying but the reality is they don't so I am a big tipper.

The preserves I have gone to charge additional for guide/dog..but it's usually pretty small money like 50 bucks or so...that's not much if thats the dough for the guide supplying his dog

To address the op..the last time we went we gave I think 100 on a 300 bill

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:25 am

The charters i mated on thru the years if we'd of been lined up for a "hand out" we'd of been out of a boat to mate from.

That's not how it goes down where I've mated, you do your job and if someone comes to you with a tip you accept graciously and thank them
and let them know its appreciated and that you hope they had an enjoyable time, same way as on the preserve. I never wanted or want a client
to feel I'm expecting it or waiting for it.....if given its received, if not I still let them know I hope they had an enjoyable experience.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:26 pm

birddog1968 wrote:Your issue is you can't comprehend hunting dogs commercially.......

A trainer believes he deserves the money he works for and a guide who does it for a living feels the same way. Many hunting operations pay a minimal amount or nothing , tips is the compensation, Just like commercial charter boats.

I'm glad you know more about how I feel and think than I do...

I run a business, I've commercialized a hobby. I have a good friend that guided for 20 years, full time. A lot of hog hunting, maintained a string of a dozen plus dogs. I've asked him about tips. He said he usually got them and they were very nice, but he would only guide for outfitters that paid enough to make it worth it. Makes sense to me.

I've also worked as a bartender. Some people tipped good, some great, some poor, some horrible. It's part of life. I had a regular that would tip a few dollars on a $100 tab, I've gotten $20 tips off a few rounds.

I'm actually a very generous tipper.

Tips are an expression of gratitude and appreciation for a service rendered. They are not earned, or to be expected, merely appreciated when given.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:51 pm

I would say if you are working planted birds you should do 20% (i guess that's what I always tip when I go out). But points start getting deducted for birds bumped, rooted, chased, etc. If they find the birds you missed add 25% of the bird cost because he is working longer for your missed shots and its pretty much a discounted bird.

Ummm I have seen a $100 tip for three birds due to great dog work to not getting anything because the hunters were idiots, dogs loaded, and handler left. Would say average is $100 for 200 worth of birds.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:23 pm

birddog1968 wrote:The charters i mated on thru the years if we'd of been lined up for a "hand out" we'd of been out of a boat to mate from.

That's not how it goes down where I've mated, you do your job and if someone comes to you with a tip you accept graciously and thank them
and let them know its appreciated and that you hope they had an enjoyable time, same way as on the preserve. I never wanted or want a client
to feel I'm expecting it or waiting for it.....if given its received, if not I still let them know I hope they had an enjoyable experience.

Exactly right!

Charlie

Tooling · Post by **Tooling** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:23 am

birddogger wrote:
birddog1968 wrote:The charters i mated on thru the years if we'd of been lined up for a "hand out" we'd of been out of a boat to mate from.

That's not how it goes down where I've mated, you do your job and if someone comes to you with a tip you accept graciously and thank them
and let them know its appreciated and that you hope they had an enjoyable time, same way as on the preserve. I never wanted or want a client
to feel I'm expecting it or waiting for it.....if given its received, if not I still let them know I hope they had an enjoyable experience.
Exactly right!

Charlie

It seemed rather uncouth and I've never seen that on a boat before but I wasn't going to make hay of it. Just gave them what I was going to give them anyhow and walked. They did a great job that day. I just chalked it up to one of those things...

I'm not in a business that has "tipping" or anything like that but if I had an employee display such a lack of taste...they would be one step out the door I can promise you that.

There are solid points here...I don't do much preserve stuff but will every now and again. The last time was just for a fun day w/pheasants for my pup and a good half day w/my brother. I'm a hunter and bro is a shooter as you guys would put it. I put in 80 & my brother put in 20 for the tip

....he let the guide carry all of his pheasants and was blasting my birds as I was letting them "get out" a bit before taking my shot...I tried explaining to him just what a "backer" was but it's hard for an older brother to hear from his younger sibling I guess...such is life

Those mates sure seemed to be rather proactive keeping my wife fishing that day....kinda' left feeling like maybe they should have tipped me

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:29 am

displaced_texan wrote:
birddog1968 wrote:Your issue is you can't comprehend hunting dogs commercially.......

A trainer believes he deserves the money he works for and a guide who does it for a living feels the same way. Many hunting operations pay a minimal amount or nothing , tips is the compensation, Just like commercial charter boats.
I'm glad you know more about how I feel and think than I do...

I run a business, I've commercialized a hobby. I have a good friend that guided for 20 years, full time. A lot of hog hunting, maintained a string of a dozen plus dogs. I've asked him about tips. He said he usually got them and they were very nice, but he would only guide for outfitters that paid enough to make it worth it. Makes sense to me.

I've also worked as a bartender. Some people tipped good, some great, some poor, some horrible. It's part of life. I had a regular that would tip a few dollars on a $100 tab, I've gotten $20 tips off a few rounds.

I'm actually a very generous tipper.

Tips are an expression of gratitude and appreciation for a service rendered. They are not earned, or to be expected, merely appreciated when given.

I hear what your saying.....

Waiters work for below minimum wage alot of times, banking on tips. So do guides and mates.

You can't ask to be paid more from a preserve if it makes their profit margin so low its not worth them being in business....the profit margins on preserves, for the owners, is very low....except for maybe the high end Orvis type lodges. I ran one and know what the margins are. As a mate we used to get 25 bucks from the captain , that was basically for cleaning and setting up the boat before and after a trip. The tips in those situations are the pay just like with a waiter.

As an example for the average low end blue collar preserve....if a 20 bird phez hunt costs 450 and birds are 12.50 a piece (250)+ 50 for a guide = 300 bucks, leaving 150 bucks to pay for fields, facilities, insurance, maybe a bird boy..........not much profit in smaller blue collar preserves.

Your hog hunting buddy is operating in a completely different ball game, bigger fees to clients, no cost for stock, and low overhead, not having to pay to plant and maintain fields , feed , facilities........

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:38 am

Just for the sake of information, wait staff makes $2.10 per hour most of the time, plus tips.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:45 am

Cajun Casey wrote:Just for the sake of information, wait staff makes $2.10 per hour most of the time, plus tips.

I guess at least wait staff has the benefit of volume, if they work for a good owner.

And if a guide or mate gets 25 or 50 bucks from their owner, a substantial amount of that basic fee is eaten up in fuel and food for the day, if not all of it. I can't speak for anyone else but if it started costing me money to guide I wouldn't do it at all. And I try to ignore vet bills caused during hunts or i might have already quit doing it.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:44 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:Just for the sake of information, wait staff makes $2.10 per hour most of the time, plus tips.

The place I bartended was generous. $2.50!

phoenix · Post by **phoenix** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:38 am

As a guide, I do it for pure pleasure. Our preserve is operated off pre release & wild birds but land management is costly. We dropped 70k this year on forestry mulching & seeding. Our hunts are $595 for up to four guns & no bird limit. We bring you back & clean & cook your birds for you or package them & send them with you. I don't expect tips but always seem to receive them. Usually $25 a gun but my best was $100 a gun. Its not a job to me but it does pay well for my time & the perks are I hunt free when ever I want! Win win!

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:11 pm

phoenix wrote:As a guide, I do it for pure pleasure. Our preserve is operated off pre release & wild birds but land management is costly. We dropped 70k this year on forestry mulching & seeding. Our hunts are $595 for up to four guns & no bird limit. We bring you back & clean & cook your birds for you or package them & send them with you. I don't expect tips but always seem to receive them. Usually $25 a gun but my best was $100 a gun. Its not a job to me but it does pay well for my time & the perks are I hunt free when ever I want! Win win!

I like your attitude.

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