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American brittany lines

American brittany lines

Postby ibbowhunting » Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:36 pm

I'm looking for well breed Brittany pup. who would be willing to look over some pedagrees an give there input of the line I know very little about the history of the breed. Please Pm if you wouldn't mind look over a few pedagrees,
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby birddog1968 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:11 pm

Just call Beeline Brittney and talk to Nolan.....cut to the chase. They have a facebook page as well.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby Redfishkilla » Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:04 pm

Ask chukar12 or knine. make sure they go back to ban-dee.....the brittany bread and butter
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby birddog1968 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:12 pm

Bandee was whelped in the 60's :lol:
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby ezzy333 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:22 pm

birddog1968 wrote:Bandee was whelped in the 60's :lol:

And he is the best Brit I have ever seen. And possibly the best producer. That is my top line going back through Beans Blaze. Kansas Kid is another line that was real popular for years. I like Gambler's Ace in the Hole and look at Jerry Magee's dog Chug today.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby birddog1968 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:30 pm

Having a dog in the line that far back means little, in and of itself.

I'd rather have bullet 2 back.....
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby AZ Brittany Guy » Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:27 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
birddog1968 wrote:Bandee was whelped in the 60's :lol:

And he is the best Brit I have ever seen. And possibly the best producer. That is my top line going back through Beans Blaze. Kansas Kid is another line that was real popular for years. I like Gambler's Ace in the Hole and look at Jerry Magee's dog Chug today.
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Ban Dee was a great dog but not the only great dog.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby uthunter » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:16 am

It may be good for you to post up here what you are looking out of a pup (ie big run, trial, hunting only, ect) as well as the pedigree in question. There are a lot of Knowlegable Brittany people on this board.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby Neil » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:19 am

I am not interested in the PM thing, anything I have to say, I will say to all.

Much depends on your goals.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby Karen » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:47 am

I've got 2 stellar dogs that are Renegade's Kansas Kid bred (Courage, who never field trialed but could FLY in his prime), and Chloe (Woodland's Money Pit) who is double-bred kansas kid, was 4th at the 2012 ABC NGDC and has been just an awesome dog. Lots of style, lots of run, and extremely biddable.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby MonsterDad » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:52 am

Karen wrote:I've got 2 stellar dogs that are Renegade's Kansas Kid bred (Courage, who never field trialed but could FLY in his prime), and Chloe (Woodland's Money Pit) who is double-bred kansas kid, was 4th at the 2012 ABC NGDC and has been just an awesome dog. Lots of style, lots of run, and extremely biddable.


Karen I see you are from PA. Do you know anything about a New Jersey dog named Petey, Pistol Pete something like that. He is a liver dog.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby Karen » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:57 am

You referring to Hit's For Pete's Sake? Yeah, used to train with him. He's a nice dog, National Gun Dog Champion at something like 3 yrs old. Has produced some real nice dogs too.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby MonsterDad » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:15 am

Karen wrote:You referring to Hit's For Pete's Sake? Yeah, used to train with him. He's a nice dog, National Gun Dog Champion at something like 3 yrs old. Has produced some real nice dogs too.


yeah that's him....he is a looker too...after i posted I remembered his owner....
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby Karen » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:38 am

Marjos Brittany just whelped a litter that was out of Petey's sister (Gretchen who has done some AWESOME winning herself) and Chloe's half-brother, Sam (who is by DC Havapal's Renegade Billy Boy). Those should make some awesome puppies. If I had room for another.... :D
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby ibbowhunting » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:40 pm

the dog i'm looking for would hunt ruff grouse mostly,some woodcock and sharp-tail, maybe a couple pheasant trips a year
I will tell you what I like about the britt I have now, she covers ground very quickly up to 150 yard casts depending on terrain( haven't hunted any prairie yet), she is very bold, loves birds, good nose, smooth coat,
if I could add natural retriever, easy to train, and great in the house(shes almost 2 and starting to clam down a lot), she would be the perfect dog

a lot of the breeding have Nolans last bullet what would you expect of a pup with this bloodline and how far back do you really consider the lineage of a dog

what about?

maverick
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby deseeker » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:02 pm

The last two you named are all age dogs. I don't know anything about Maverick---someone else might know something about that line.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby ibbowhunting » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:33 pm

deseeker wrote:The last two you named are all age dogs. I don't know anything about Maverick---someone else might know something about that line.

all age dogs = big range?

What about N L Bullet?
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby AZ Brittany Guy » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:50 pm

ibbowhunting wrote:
deseeker wrote:The last two you named are all age dogs. I don't know anything about Maverick---someone else might know something about that line.

all age dogs = big range?

What about N L Bullet?


In my opinion NLB could have been great at what ever he was exposed to doing. Although he competed on a 40 acre field, he came from the same fountainhead as Gambler's Ace in the Hole, Rimarda's Trade Mark, Hi Proof Rumrunner, Bazooka's Brandy, Holiday Doc, and Holiday Britt. I think Scipio is also in there. It was all Delmar Smith foundation breeding's.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby deseeker » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:59 pm

ibbowhunting wrote:
deseeker wrote:The last two you named are all age dogs. I don't know anything about Maverick---someone else might know something about that line.

all age dogs = big range?

What about N L Bullet?


Yes they ran pretty big---not saying that their future generations won't be gundog range. I use to breed my females to all age dogs(Aux-Arc Mark, Silver Lakes Wishes Blaze, Lobo's Blazin' Candy Man, Havapal's Renegade Billy Boy, Kid's Kid Lone River Moose) and got mostly gun dog and shooting dog range pups.

Bullet was they winingest shoot to retrieve dog ever( which means runs fast, finds a lot of birds, and handles in a 40 acre field). He ran gun dog range(in field trials). He was used a lot for stud and threw mostly gun dog range dogs---although I think Chukar 12 has some of that line in his NAFC(I think ????).
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby ibbowhunting » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:08 pm

deseeker wrote:
ibbowhunting wrote:
deseeker wrote:The last two you named are all age dogs. I don't know anything about Maverick---someone else might know something about that line.

all age dogs = big range?

What about N L Bullet?


Yes they ran pretty big---not saying that their future generations won't be gundog range. I use to breed my females to all age dogs(Aux-Arc Mark, Silver Lakes Wishes Blaze, Lobo's Blazin' Candy Man, Havapal's Renegade Billy Boy, Kid's Kid Lone River Moose) and got mostly gun dog and shooting dog range pups.

Bullet was they winingest shoot to retrieve dog ever( which means runs fast, finds a lot of birds, and handles in a 40 acre field). He ran gun dog range(in field trials). He was used a lot for stud and threw mostly gun dog range dogs---although I think Chukar 12 has some of that line in his NAFC(I think ????).


Ok now at which line do you still consider, that dog is of NLB Lines, Sire, grand sire, great grand sire, where do you draw the line? I'm just thinking the farther back in the line the less impact that dog would make,Right
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby uthunter » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:23 pm

When I am looking for a pup I do consider what the lineage is a few generations back, however I am also look at what the sire and bitch are doing. NLB was a great producer but that doesn't mean all of his offspring are producers. Do some research on the dogs of today and see what they are producing and which ones of those are getting what you're looking for. Don't hesitate to pick up the phone. Every owner I have ever talked to is happy to tell you what they've been getting out of their breeding. Attend a few trials in your area if you can and watch the dogs run. If you like one find out the pedigree. I have found that Brittany people are super friendly and eager to help out he ever possible.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby AZ Brittany Guy » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:40 pm

[/quote] I'm just thinking the farther back in the line the less impact that dog would make,Right[/quote]

After reading "Snakefoot" years ago, I think Bob Wehle would debate that theory if he were alive today.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby birddog1968 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:57 pm

AZ Brittany Guy wrote:
I'm just thinking the farther back in the line the less impact that dog would make,Right[/quote]

After reading "Snakefoot" years ago, I think Bob Wehle would debate that theory if he were alive today.[/quote]


Im sure he would as snake was his best seller :lol: dog that far back only matters in so much as great choices were made after him.....


Nolan guides with his dogs on the Montana prairie.....and just because a dog was a winner in Nstra doesn't mean they won't stretch on big ground. just means the
dog knew what he was doing in a trial and was cooperative. I've run against his Rusty dog (nice dog) and seen Brave run....both nice dogs. Give Nolan Huffman a call.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby kninebirddog » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:20 pm

I really like the maxwell's Blew By You crossed with Nolans Last Bullet as they mature they seem to keep running out of course it seems that Maxwells Blew By You with the TJ stuff also is doing pretty good and yes NAFC/FC/AFC Spanish Corrals Sundance Kid is a Nolans Last Bullet Grandson..but what would I know I just run NSTRA :wink:
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby Redfishkilla » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:03 am

Here's a Sonny son with NLB as G-Grandma.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby Redfishkilla » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:04 am

Sorry I'm not proficient at posting pics, he's 7 months old in this pic. I was shooting birds over solid points a 4 months.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby Chukar12 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:08 am

I really like that pup Cy...
The breeder has contacted me about a repeat
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby kninebirddog » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:42 am

Redfishkilla wrote:Sorry I'm not proficient at posting pics, he's 7 months old in this pic. I was shooting birds over solid points a 4 months.


Hmm Life size picture there :lol:
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby Carolina Gundogs » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:10 am

I saw the same thing with my Sonny pup. She was solid on her points at 4 months of age.

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Re: American brittany lines

Postby Chukar12 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:28 am

Its interesting that you two posted these...these pups are out of half sisters on their bottom sides. Amber is my female (Carolina's pup) and Rose (Redfishkilla's) are both out of Lobo's Rebel Dogg a product of a half brother sister breeding with Bean's Blaze as their sire.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby kninebirddog » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:00 pm

Lobo's Mahogany Blaze,Lobo's Rebel Dog and Lobo's Klickitat County Line were all the same breeding just different litters. Lobo's Mahogany Blaze was from the first breeding and Lobo's Rebel dog was from the last breeding of Lobo's Blazin Candy Man to Lobo's Blazn gypsy Girl.
Fun to watch how pedigrees of some super nice dogs come together
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby AZ Brittany Guy » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:22 pm

birddog1968 wrote:
AZ Brittany Guy wrote:
I'm just thinking the farther back in the line the less impact that dog would make,Right


After reading "Snakefoot" years ago, I think Bob Wehle would debate that theory if he were alive today.[/quote]


Im sure he would as snake was his best seller :lol: dog that far back only matters in so much as great choices were made after him.....


Nolan guides with his dogs on the Montana prairie.....and just because a dog was a winner in Nstra doesn't mean they won't stretch on big ground. just means the
dog knew what he was doing in a trial and was cooperative. I've run against his Rusty dog (nice dog) and seen Brave run....both nice dogs. Give Nolan Huffman a call.[/quote]

Mr. Wehle gave all the credit to "Lexington Jake" who dated back to the 30's. He believed that LJ was the foundation of his lines, not Snake.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby Chukar12 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:48 pm

Image

Here you go Redfishkilla ...resized
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby Redfishkilla » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:30 pm

Thanks Chukar12....he's going to get a lot of wild bird hunting this year as well as NSTRA trials.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby jetjockey » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:27 pm

Why no talk of Blaze Dakota Trucker lines? On the trial circuit, he's produced some awesome dogs. While I understand some people don't like the roan, you can't argue his production of dogs who have competed against the best 1 hr All age dogs in the country. Heck, there are several of his grand sons and daughters who have mopped up as young dogs. Dogs who won as Derbys, and have done just as well as adults. In 2011, he produced, or grand sired 3 of the top 12 dogs in the Purina AA points standings, and two of those dogs weren't 4 years old yet. He's produced dogs that have won the Chicken, Pheasant (twice I believe), and multiple other places in those trials, including placing at Nationals at least three times. Name a big championship, and chances are, either he, or a dog he has produced, has won it.

Heck, his Brother was a NFC, RU NFC, and AA dog of the year........ I'm surprised nobody mentioned any of them..
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby birddog1968 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:38 pm

AZ Brittany Guy wrote:
birddog1968 wrote:
AZ Brittany Guy wrote:
I'm just thinking the farther back in the line the less impact that dog would make,Right


After reading "Snakefoot" years ago, I think Bob Wehle would debate that theory if he were alive today.



Im sure he would as snake was his best seller :lol: dog that far back only matters in so much as great choices were made after him.....


Nolan guides with his dogs on the Montana prairie.....and just because a dog was a winner in Nstra doesn't mean they won't stretch on big ground. just means the
dog knew what he was doing in a trial and was cooperative. I've run against his Rusty dog (nice dog) and seen Brave run....both nice dogs. Give Nolan Huffman a call.[/quote]

Mr. Wehle gave all the credit to "Lexington Jake" who dated back to the 30's. He believed that LJ was the foundation of his lines, not Snake.[/quote]


LJ is the foundation of so many dogs its not even funny.....All Wehle's great dogs were outcrosses with some miller blood but he'd never admit that....the guy was a salesman...
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby kninebirddog » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:55 am

Birddog1968
If you take Snakefoots pedigree and put it in a database the most ironic thing I found is how Whele boasted about LJ and how he bashed spunky creek boy and you will find Spunky Creek in Snake foots pedigree far more the LJ is :wink:

He had the money and wrote a book ...Did he really know about breeding I think the part about the Foxes that were raised for their pelts was by far the best part of that book.

Back to the Brittanys

As for Blaze Dakota Trucker I honestly do not see him in as many pedigrees as you will scipios, beans blaze, TJ, NLB, Lobo lines, Renegade. But he is there
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby Meller » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:57 pm

Might want to talk to Martha Greenlee at piney run kennels she has some nice well bred Brittney dogs. :)
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby jetjockey » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:38 pm

kninebirddog wrote:As for Blaze Dakota Trucker I honestly do not see him in as many pedigrees as you will scipios, beans blaze, TJ, NLB, Lobo lines, Renegade. But he is there


I'd say 99% of it is because of his color. It's not hard to spot a BDT dog on the podium. The problem is roan dogs are hard to see. And too many people breed away from that because they don't like roan. His production however is very, very good, especially considering he wasnt bred like many of the others. Too many breedings are based on popularity contests, instead of production. But roans are darn hard to see, so I understand that aspect as well. I was told by a very knowledgable person he would have won a lot more if he wasnt so roan, and that's saying something. I fully understand why Pros like white dogs!!
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby AZ Brittany Guy » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:52 pm

I don't care about Wehle's salesmanship or his bank account. That's nothing but a side trip off the topic. My point is I believe a dog's blood lines and traits are affected by their ancestors and you can have an ancestor that may go back 15 gen or more and the bloodline contribution report reveals a stronger presence than say, a 3rd gen ancestor. Close up front ancestors don't necessarily mean they are more important than the old ones. Arlette should know this since she has done a lot of research on this matter.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby ezzy333 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:02 pm

AZ Brittany Guy wrote:I don't care about Wehle's salesmanship or his bank account. That's nothing but a side trip off the topic. My point is I believe a dog's blood lines and traits are affected by their ancestors and you can have an ancestor that may go back 15 gen or more and the bloodline contribution report reveals a stronger presence than say, a 3rd gen ancestor. Close up front ancestors don't necessarily mean they are more important than the old ones. Arlette should know this since she has done a lot of research on this matter.

I think you are getting hung up on the definition of line compared to an individual dog. Of course dogs close up in the pedigree have more direct influence on a pup but they can still be following a line that started decades ago with a certain dog.

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Re: American brittany lines

Postby ezzy333 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:03 pm

AZ Brittany Guy wrote:I don't care about Wehle's salesmanship or his bank account. That's nothing but a side trip off the topic. My point is I believe a dog's blood lines and traits are affected by their ancestors and you can have an ancestor that may go back 15 gen or more and the bloodline contribution report reveals a stronger presence than say, a 3rd gen ancestor. Close up front ancestors don't necessarily mean they are more important than the old ones. Arlette should know this since she has done a lot of research on this matter.

I think you are getting hung up on the definition of line compared to an individual dog. Of course dogs close up in the pedigree have more direct influence on a pup but they can still be following a line that started decades ago with a certain dog.

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Re: American brittany lines

Postby DonF » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:49 pm

Better you might start with breeders that have shown to produce. Chasing pedigrees can be an endless road. We have two on here that if I was looking for a pup, I'd talk to, K9 and Chukar 12. I know of some other Britt owner's that only have litter's once in awhile that if I wanted a Britt, I know they have good one's whatever the line might be. I have no Idea how many different line's there could be, a lot at a guess. Trying to find the best is a never ending job. You might go to some NSTRA trials and see what is going on, dogs you think you might like. Bet you could find one through them. Go to some broke dog walking stakes, you'll probably find what you could live with there. Go to pointing dog test. Concentrate on the senior and master dog's, you could find what your looking for there. There are two setter's, male and female, that no one ever would have heard of other than their son, Tekoa Mountain Sunrise. That's about it, their only claim to fame. Pedigree's don't hunt!
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby AZ Brittany Guy » Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:17 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
AZ Brittany Guy wrote:I don't care about Wehle's salesmanship or his bank account. That's nothing but a side trip off the topic. My point is I believe a dog's blood lines and traits are affected by their ancestors and you can have an ancestor that may go back 15 gen or more and the bloodline contribution report reveals a stronger presence than say, a 3rd gen ancestor. Close up front ancestors don't necessarily mean they are more important than the old ones. Arlette should know this since she has done a lot of research on this matter.

I think you are getting hung up on the definition of line compared to an individual dog. Of course dogs close up in the pedigree have more direct influence on a pup but they can still be following a line that started decades ago with a certain dog.

Ezzy


Ezzy, How can you support your statement "of course dogs up close in a pedigree have more......"? I think you are stating an opinion but not necessarily a fact. Don't get me wrong, I try to have my breeding stock as close as I can get to top performing dogs. I think it helps your odds as a owner. I just don't think its an absolute that close up dogs have more of an impact. Now we can drift off into the subjective zone of the effects of a good dog being in the "right hands" with the "right owner" competing in the "right trials".

I once told a manager "a bit full of himself" that a great economy, with a good staff can make a manager look like a genius. In a bad economy a great manager and a good staff can look like "near-do-wells".
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby Ecw21 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:34 pm

My dog is out of Nevene Kennels and has a lot of the dogs mentioned above. I asked for similar advice over 5 years ago and got great responses about some of the same lines---seems to me that great dogs (or lines) are still being mixed in by top breeders. I don't know if Gene Salmons is still breeding but my dog runs big, has a good nose, and stamina to spare---even at 7 years young. I don't know the breedings enough to comment but I'm pleased with my girl. More experienced eyes could prob look at her pedigree (or any pedigree--I'm impressed by the knowledge) and make a guess about potential but, as with people, potential only goes so far. Im just smart enough to admit I'm dumb about many things...Brittanies from days gone by is one of those things---I'm happy to lean on the experience of others!

Great advice here that I have relied on over the years.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby whatsnext » Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:56 pm

Ecw21 wrote:My dog is out of Nevene Kennels and has a lot of the dogs mentioned above. I asked for similar advice over 5 years ago and got great responses about some of the same lines---seems to me that great dogs (or lines) are still being mixed in by top breeders. I don't know if Gene Salmons is still breeding but my dog runs big, has a good nose, and stamina to spare---even at 7 years young. I don't know the breedings enough to comment but I'm pleased with my girl. More experienced eyes could prob look at her pedigree (or any pedigree--I'm impressed by the knowledge) and make a guess about potential but, as with people, potential only goes so far. Im just smart enough to admit I'm dumb about many things...Brittanies from days gone by is one of those things---I'm happy to lean on the experience of others!

Great advice here that I have relied on over the years.



Yes he is still breeding and he is involved in the heart of illinois brittany club and to jetjockey i think roan colored dogs are some of the best looking dog's 8)
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby jetjockey » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:20 am

whatsnext wrote:to jetjockey i think roan colored dogs are some of the best looking dog's 8)


I agree, but in trials roan dogs are not preferred because they can be darn hard to see. A perfect example occurred with my dog this week in a big, wild bird only, trial. Bird work was very tough to come by and most dogs were going birdless. The trainer lost my dog and he's pretty sure she was standing, but unless your right on top of her, you often can't see her. She ended up showing up but she was gone too long. Had she been a big white dog, she may have been found standing the bird, and for this trial, that would have been huge. But I agree, roan dogs are pretty. I've been told BDT would have won more if he wasn't so roan.. And thats saying something considering the wins he had.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby Karen » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:50 am

Trainer should be able to pull her track off the garmin to confirm if she was standing or not. Several years ago found out that one of mine was chasing away in the woods, then went on point when she heard us coming. We thought everything was in order...until we pulled the track from the collar. BOY was that an eye-opener. Proved how smart the little booger is too!
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby jetjockey » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:07 am

Karen wrote:Trainer should be able to pull her track off the garmin to confirm if she was standing or not. Several years ago found out that one of mine was chasing away in the woods, then went on point when she heard us coming. We thought everything was in order...until we pulled the track from the collar. BOY was that an eye-opener. Proved how smart the little booger is too!


It's not that big a deal, and it wont change the results. Ive learned that if she doesn't show to the front, and the scout can't find her, she's standing. I've also realized why guys breed for white dogs.
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Re: American brittany lines

Postby kninebirddog » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:15 pm

http://jimjohnkennels.com/dogs/RustysRoyalRun.html
This young dog just got Runner up in the Brittany Chicken Classic This is a frozen Nolan's Last Bullet Breeding to a Beans Blaze Bred female
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