Tollers

[Erikcooper]

Anyone have them? Very interesting breed but I have 0 first hand experience with them. I was curious as to how others feel about em.

[MonsterDad]

They seem to be nice dogs but the "tolling" aspect seems to be far fetched if you ask me. Does playing at the water's edge really do anything? Ducks magically come?

The two I know are nice dogs and retrieve well and are smart as heck but whether there is anything special about "tolling" I just don't know.

They are extremely fast and agile if that is something you want. Like a retrieving border collie.

[DonF]

My old Kate like nothing more than to go out the lake out back and run he ducks. The more she ran the more showed up. Now I've never seen a tolling dog and without seeing a few actually do it on purpose, I wouldn't get one. Kate was a Pointer and she not only wouldn't point a duck, she refused to point the wing on a string. She believed that if she chased them long enough that sooner or later she was gonna score. She would point the poo out of game birds though, even sight pointed them. Never had another dog like that.

[Trekmoor]

I don't know much about Tollers and have never seen one work. The closest I ever came to Tolling wildfowl was done by leaving my Brittany out on the moor 100 yards or more from my hide ....I think you lads call it a "blind." When geese appeared towards her I'd recall whistle her back into the hide and sometimes , but only sometimes, the geese would fly right over to see where she had gone.

I read that Tollers are "worked" in a similar manner but that the ducks they attract as the dog runs from one hide to the next ,swim into a funnel shaped , very large netted enclosure ???

Bill T.

[nikegundog]

Check out the Toller Scream on youtube.

[crackerd]

They seem to be nice dogs but the "tolling" aspect seems to be far fetched if you ask me.

Yeah, it's all an optical illusion or mirage -



- like tollers retrieving geese, just doesn't happen...



MG

[Erikcooper]

They seem to be nice dogs but the "tolling" aspect seems to be far fetched if you ask me.

Yeah, it's all an optical illusion or mirage -



- like tollers retrieving geese, just doesn't happen...



MG

First hand experience with them I take it?

[birddog1968]

LOL those geese sit on that roost pond no matter if a toller runs by or a buffalo or a sand dredge.....

[slistoe]

They seem to be nice dogs but the "tolling" aspect seems to be far fetched if you ask me.

Yeah, it's all an optical illusion or mirage -



MG

But aren't punt guns illegal these days??

[slistoe]

LOL those geese sit on that roost pond no matter if a toller runs by or a buffalo or a sand dredge.....

But they don't come within shotgun range is the problem.
A toller is to bring rafted birds in close enough to shore to shoot them - curiosity killed the cat sort of thing.

[birddog1968]

Im speaking of that particular body of water Scott.....those birds roost there all season and get chased around by dogs alot becuase of the local Air Force base......See all the feathers on the shore, they were more likely pushed off that shore by the dog and are keeping a distance as you can see by the line they've formed from shore. I know that body of water well.....

[crackerd]

LOL those geese sit on that roost pond no matter if a toller runs by or a buffalo or a sand dredge.....

Hey hotshot homeboy with all the answers, that quarry's only about 3/4 of a mile wide now for the "sitting." So it ain't exactly wall-to-wall sitting even with 10,000-15,000 geese in there at a time

But you go on thinking of your time nearby - alas, unlike with tolling, which still works wonders, them days (and dudes) is long-gone if'n you know what I mean...

Scott, you got it - and Bill T. too

MG

[birddog1968]

ROFL, and that dog didn't make those geese come in, know what I mean

BTW that club was doomed to die because of the dishonest man who ran it, which is why I left awhile back. Best not to be associated with dishonest deceptive people........

[crackerd]

No Sean, I don't - 'cause you really ain't got a clue. The govt. goose chasing dogs don't go near the quarry - sorry, they stay in the surrounding fields (and do a d*mned nice job rolling in goose sh*t or munching on the chicken carcasses foxes have dragged into those fields from the nearby chicken houses). But when the chase dogs did go anywhere near, and managed to shoo the snows away with a border collie, just for a larf I would get out the toller and bring 'em right back. One time got 'em back so nicely that three bands came down with the five birds that the Mag-10 took out. (Not a punt gun, Scott, but close enough.)

Good rationalizing, Sean, but tolling ain't rational to begin with. You might actually watch some tolling though before you rabbit on about what it ain't or how it works only with "roosting" geese.

MG

[birddog1968]

Im not debating what a toller can do Im debating the honesty of that photo.....

[crackerd]

See all the feathers on the shore, they were more likely pushed off that shore by the dog and are keeping a distance as you can see by the line they've formed from shore......

The honesty of it is in what you're not seeing but injudiciously commenting on nevertheless. Those snows are no more than 15-20 feet away from the dog and they've come in to shore from hundreds of yards away - not been pushed off it by the dog. Tolling's about luring (attracting) not repelling.

Feathers used to pile up on shore six inches deep from all the geese there, then when the wind direction changed would move elsewhere with the prevailing wind.



See any goose down on this shore? The geese must've left it at sea in the 600-700 yards they swam from the far side to get up close and personal with the toller.

MG

[crackerd]

See, thing is, tolling on the water was a party trick, because you couldn't do any gunning in that quarry. The geese were secure there, it's true they didn't want to leave necessarily, but they didn't have to move, either. That's where tolling comes in, at Scot noted - and lots of fun moving that many geese around a big body of water by tolling them from one side to another.



And then there might be a cripple amongst them that got left behind or stood out all by itself, and then -



the toller would give them...well, not exactly a life preserver, but more like a tow instead of a toll.

MG

[Jere]

Michael,

A couple of years ago my setter was working the willow scrub at the edge of a tundra pond in the foothills of the Alaska range. There were a few scaup resting far out in the middle of the pond. As the dog worked the edge for ptarmigan the ducks took interest and swam towards him and soon came very close to the shore. They surely came close enough for a shot.

My question is: how is this different from what happens when the dog is a Toller? What makes the Toller different from any dog trained to piddle around the edge of a body of water in front of some blind where men with guns wait?

Tell me more about training and working a Toller as a tolling dog as well as any inherited component of its behavior.

Jere

[Trekmoor]

At one time I fancied getting a toller. I wanted one for retriever work mainly but I only saw a couple at dog shows. Apart from the fact the dogs I saw did not work I wasn't happy when their owners told me the breed tended to be a bit noisy. Does anyone know if this is true or false ?

In Britain we do have one or two dogs that do the original work of tolling dogs, that of stimulating the curiousity of ducks and luring them into a net , the net is set in an inlet of the lake and it originally was used by men in order to catch ducks for the meat market.
I saw a t.v. report showing a little bit of this work at, I think, the Slimbridge Wildlife Centre in England. Apparently just about any spaniel or collie sized dog is used now and the dog is a link to the old tradition ......it is always called "Piper" perhaps because troops once followed a piper into battle ?

Nowadays the ducks attracted in by the dog are examined and perhaps ringed for research purposes, no ducks are now killed for market.

Bill T.

[crackerd]

A couple of years ago my setter was working the willow scrub at the edge of a tundra pond in the foothills of the Alaska range. There were a few scaup resting far out in the middle of the pond. As the dog worked the edge for ptarmigan the ducks took interest and swam towards him and soon came very close to the shore. They surely came close enough for a shot.

My question is: how is this different from what happens when the dog is a Toller? What makes the Toller different from any dog trained to piddle around the edge of a body of water in front of some blind where men with guns wait?

Tell me more about training and working a Toller as a tolling dog as well as any inherited component of its behavior.

Good to "see you" here, Jere - take it you've also got a new pup. Congratulations!

No different really with a tolling dog than what happened with your setter - ducks and geese are very curious and as Scott said, curiosity killed the cat. With a toller, it's intentional movement, called sparking or playing the dog, by tossing a stick or bumper along shore (not in the water), and having the dog retrieve it again and again. Rafted ducks - or geese - see this from afar and steam toward the dog. If you were market hunting, after the birds got under way, you would then recall the dog into the hide while the ducks got closer but not close enough. You would wait a couple of minutes throw the stick (back then; bumper now) from side to side of the hide and the dog would deliver it back to you each time. Couple more throws left and right, and up you pop, with ducks or geese everywhere in your "viewfinder." It could be a full-scale slaughter on open water but really no sportsmanship to it and most folk would rather call in their ducks than toll them, limits being so small nowadays.

Again, tolling ain't limited to tollers, and goldens (or mottled orange like the Brittany or Kooikerhondje) do really well with it too. One of my yellow field trial Labs tolled a woodie drake almost back to the line with her while swimming back on a water blind Sunday - first time I've seen that. But tolling on hard ground is a common sight - even if the birds are more reminiscent of a fighter squadron peeling off for ground support than letting themselves get mesmerized, which is what tolling supposedly is all about. The history of tolling dogs (Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retrievers not the old nickname for Chessies) is that they were bred to resemble foxes after the indigenous Canadian folk watched foxes prancing and dancing on shore and the birds bearing down on them, at which time another fox came up from the rear or side and did what foxes do when they gain admission to the hen house.

Bill, they are indeed noisy and alas it often goes unchecked as tollers have a tendency to be owned by the "wrong people" who "think it's cute" and "distinctive." Them that ain't vocal and that have drive make hardcore upland dogs - got mine many years ago to be a spaniel, essentially, and she did not disappoint, airborne on every flush - unfortunately except for a trip or two to North Dakota, they were all canned birds and she caught many. Fortunately at about that time tollers became eligible to run retriever hunt tests, where today they give a right fair acquittal of themselves. Where they don't often give that acquittal is in the "tolling test" of the parent club's working requirements - you have to start them tolling early because if you don't, and they come out of a hide or holding blind, they're looking for marks further afield, not a stick or bumper thrown almost at their feet. It is really a quirky irony to see a toller fail the tolling test whilst "stepping on" the three marks of a water triple.

MG

[crackerd]

In Britain we do have one or two dogs that do the original work of tolling dogs, that of stimulating the curiousity of ducks and luring them into a net , the net is set in an inlet of the lake and it originally was used by men in order to catch ducks for the meat market.

I saw a t.v. report showing a little bit of this work at, I think, the Slimbridge Wildlife Centre in England. Apparently just about any spaniel or collie sized dog is used now and the dog is a link to the old tradition ......it is always called "Piper" perhaps because troops once followed a piper into battle ?

Bill, think you're alluding to the Nacton Decoy http://www.tollers.com/decoy.htm and you can read up on why they were/are always called "pipers" or piping dogs. 'T'weren't because of their vocal cords... but piping is not too far afield of tolling as an active verb in regards to these dogs.

MG

[mountaindogs]

I have wanted one for years. I know a breeder in North GA but she has mostly show and obedience dogs. She tells me their personality is unique. I bit more independant than labs and prone to enjoy trying things their own way if they believe itw ill work better. I also have seen a few at hunt tests and they were nice. A fine retriever.

Honeyrun Tollers :http://www.honeyruntollers.com/ is my friend from our Obedience club.

[CDN_Cocker]

MG you're killing me with all these toller pics the last week or 2

[DoubleBarrel GunDogs]

I've only worked with one, but have seen several others work. If you're looking for a 50 lb. Minus dog that can be an excellent waterfowl / upland dog. I think you are looking in the right direction.

Nate

[Minneguy]

I am also interested In tollers, but I have heard they can be pretty 'independent' is this true?