Training questions....

Benjammin · Post by **Benjammin** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:51 pm

What would be the best thing to continuously do throughout the year with the dog training when you can't get him on birds? And then is it good to do continuous obedience stuff such as here, heal,stay and whoe like That stuff? And then what is the trick for when you're out working a field keeping your dog from going out 200 or more yards out but I'd like to keep him close and work side to side he's somewhat does that then he starts wonders and gets too far out from me.. Some tricks and tips would be awesome thanks

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:36 pm

This should help with one of your questions.

viewtopic.php?f=89&t=44395

Angus · Post by **Angus** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:57 pm

A good start would have been researching breed lines and finding a line/breed that doesn't range as much. Ecollar could help to bring him in, but 200 yards isn't bad.

Preserve hunts, NAVHDA dates, Johnny House, hunt club, etc help in the off season. Buy birds and plant them or use a launcher. I take a break for nesting season and only exercise the dogs for nesting time of year.

Obedience is every day.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:22 pm

A dog should start to reach out if cover allows and its not finding birds, and close up and quarter more in thicker cover.

Sounds like your dog is using his brain which is a good thing.

Benjammin · Post by **Benjammin** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:47 pm

I do have and use an e-collar and that does help. I just felt that 200 out is to far. Cuz if he does go on point and I can see him it's goin to take me a little while to get there

Benjammin · Post by **Benjammin** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:50 pm

Thanks for the info

Benjammin · Post by **Benjammin** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:01 pm

I've never used a check cord to get him to work side to side , he some times does that but not a whole lot . And how far from side to side is good or to far? So should I do some check cord training ?

Post by **Sharon** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:55 am

What breed is this dog?

"Cuz if he does go on point and I can see him it's going to take me a little while to get there

" quote

If he's a pointing breed that what he is supposed to do. He holds his point until you get there. To turn him into a close working "other breed" is fighting against his breeding.

Benjammin · Post by **Benjammin** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:17 am

He is a German shorthair. He does hold point . Again I just feel bad if he's doing what he supposed to and it takes me a while to do when I'm Supposed to do. But maybe I should just get over that.

Post by **Sharon** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:32 pm

You have a good dog. Enjoy him and hoof it out there when you need to - or , get a flushing breed next time.

PS A locator collar might make you feel more comfortable. I use a Dogtra 2500 trainer/locator.

Benjammin · Post by **Benjammin** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:44 pm

Ok thanks

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:07 pm

What I'd do, if you absolutely CAN'T work him on birds is to continually reinforce obedience especially here and whoa. A bird dog has so much natural ability that you can basically hunt one if he'll come when you call him reliably. That's not ideal, but it may be the best you can do.

What birds are you hunting with him? Pheasant do present that problem of running out on the dog when you're 200 yards out. It may be your fault. Silence is golden. If you talk to the dog as you are rushing toward him, he may be there but the pheasant won't be. Silence.

trips2win · Post by **trips2win** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:13 pm

One thing that worked for my gsp during obedience training to keep him close to me was to use a 20 foot lead. Find an open area. Hold on tight and walk in straight lines for 50 or so feet and change direction 180 degrees. Dont command or warn about direction change. Dont say a word. Keep doing this. Eventually your dog will not venture out as far.

Now my dog will always check in with me while quartering and stays close. 50 yards at most.

Wrt e-collars. I am a firm believer that e-collars should only be used *after* sound obedience training. Only to reaffirm the training.

Benjammin · Post by **Benjammin** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:06 pm

We hunt pheasant and quail and yeah I do know pheasants have a Tendency of running Off on them. And I can't say that I've ever really paid attention to how quiet I am as I'm walking back towards them. So I will shut up I guess to say as I'm walking this next time.

And then as for the e-collars I am also a firm believer in those and I do know that Use them to reinforce commands they already know I do not train him with it

I can also say that I wish I would've got on this forum two and half years ago when I got my dog would help me out a lot! But overall with my dog I am very happy with all of this hunting the only issues I have this him getting out too far that kind of stuff so I'm just trying to see what I can't I can't do to pull him back in a little closer, But like some people said that 200 isn't that far out it just seems like it to me. thanks

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:15 pm

Benjamin -

There are lots of things you can do without birds that will reinforce lessons. One suggestion is....

I do heel/whoa drills in the yard and when the dogs get good t it I do things to trip them up. I will start and stop suddenly, change direction abruptly, walk backwards, and generally mess with their minds. If you do it right, it becomes a "gotcha" game and the dog will pay closer and closer attention to you because it does not want to get snagged. If you keep it fun and mix it up the dog will "play" and in the process, become ever more attentive to your body language.

You can do lots of stuff like that with bumpers and such with retrieving. Play with a purpose.

A good bird dog is supposed to hunt with some independence and to find birds...and then hold them until you get there. That is what I call an honest dog and it is something that you simply must have in a bird dog. If it takes you ten minutes to get to the dog on point...the dog should still hold point. That is what they are bred to do. Dogs have been lost on point for thirty minutes or more and were standing with birds still in front of them when found. That is regular, garden variety hunting dogs mind you, not some super special dog. That IS what they are suppoesd to do.

A good hunting dog will expand or contract its search pattern to encompass the available cover it can canvass effectively....if you spend the time to condition it to the various types of covers and if you allow the dog to learn what YOU are comfortable with.

Soooo, 200 yards is NOT too far for a shorthair in moderate cover. In thick cover that might be too rangey, even for me. In wide open terrain, 200 yards might be too short. A great deal of this is what YOU are comfortable with and if you have an honest dog.

There is a level of trust that you need to develop in the dog and conversely, the dog needs to develop a level of trust in you also. With mutual trust, you will become more and more comfortable with letting the dog hunt independently and the more you can let the dog hunt for you, the more effective it will be because the dog will know that you will show up and kill the bird for them.

Enjoy your dog and allow your dog to enjoy being with you.

RayG

Gun Dog Forum