Gun Dog Forum

Can anyone explain to me how these two differ?

main core basic differences between the two

The hunt tests are not a competition so a dog is scored on how the perform certain tasks

Field trials the dog is judged on its abilities against other dogs so at the end of the trial the dog that did the best job wins

What is the best way to get introduced to field trialing? My dog is 9 months now.

Find a trial near you, enter your dog in the puppy and derby stakes, attend the whole trial - watch, listen and have fun.

ditto what slistoe said Go to trials and see for yourself what the dogs need to do to be considered fro placement as hunt tests are a whole different ball of wax

The easiest I can explain them are Ft are competition you are competing against other dogs & handlers HT your dogs are running for a score & you pass or fail.
There are different venues of both HT & FT so you need to find which of each you might enjoy the most or might do well in.
I will say that some don't like loosing or should I say can't stand to loose & if that's the case your best choice would be HT.You loose more then you win at FT so you have to be able to loose with a smile
& not gloat too much & loud when you win.

slistoe wrote:Find a trial near you, enter your dog in the puppy and derby stakes, attend the whole trial - watch, listen and have fun.

+1

Also depends on your location in my area you will have 2 run MH 4 run SH and 30 show dogs run JH. So I stick with getting beat in the weekend trials.

You've been given excellent advice. Winning , let alone placing doesn't come easily in trials - especially in the USA. To have even the best derby dog out of 30 dogs,( some older , and more trained), on a certain day , takes a special dog and a competent handler.Much easier to get that ribbon at a test. If you're the kind of person that must win, trials may not be for you, or then again............ I started out in tests and then moved to trials.

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:The easiest I can explain them are Ft are competition you are competing against other dogs & handlers HT your dogs are running for a score & you pass or fail.
There are different venues of both HT & FT so you need to find which of each you might enjoy the most or might do well in.
I will say that some don't like loosing or should I say can't stand to loose & if that's the case your best choice would be HT.You loose more then you win at FT so you have to be able to loose with a smile
& not gloat too much & loud when you win.

I lose pretty much everything as it is so I'm use to it by now.

Is there just one winner per division at field trials?

Complicated. In American Field trials there can be 3 placements ( first, second .....)- 4 placements in some futurities. However . there doesn't have to be 3 placements. . If the Judges feel that 3 dogs didn't measure up , there can be only one placement, or none. Also depends on the number of dogs in that stake., ( puppy, Derby, Shooting Dog, All-age).

http://americanfield.villagesoup.com/p/ ... source=rss

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:The easiest I can explain them are Ft are competition you are competing against other dogs & handlers HT your dogs are running for a score & you pass or fail.
There are different venues of both HT & FT so you need to find which of each you might enjoy the most or might do well in.
I will say that some don't like loosing or should I say can't stand to loose & if that's the case your best choice would be HT.You loose more then you win at FT so you have to be able to loose with a smile
& not gloat too much & loud when you win.

This is great advise especially after losing to you the entire fall.

AKC trials give placements 1st - 4th in each stake. Placements can be withheld if judges think they haven't been earned. First place is considered the 'winner' and the other ribbon earners 'place'

In American Field trials, placements are 1st - 3rd, but it depends on how many dogs are entered. Any placement can be called a 'win'.

In hunt tests, you 'pass' or ' qualify'.

Trials can be intimidating. When you enter, let the secretary know that you are new. When you get there, introduce yourself to the sec'y and ask if anyone is around who can explain things to you. let the judges and your bracemate know that you're new, too. If you can, walk or ride some braces before your turn ( but not the one just before you go; you need to have your dog and yourself ready) so you can get an idea of what is expected, where the course goes, and what to do when.

It's really fun if you like good dogwork and are open to learning. As with any activity, there are some bozos around but mostly everyone is helpful and courteous.

Good luck and have fun

In a typical, non championship field trial competition there are three placements awarded in AF/AFTCA events, if at least six dogs are entered. There are four placements awarded in typical, non championship AKC events.

In championship events there are usually a champion and a runner up are named.

The above is one of the reasons why field trials are not for every person. If there are thirty dogs entered, there will be ONE winner and twenty nine LOSERS. Twenty nine owners will be disappointed.

In today's PC world where everybody gets a prize, even if all they did was show up, the concept of actually going to an event and getting absolutely nothing, no recognition, no nothing...is hard for some folks to take.

But that is how it is in the world of field trialing.

I strongly recommend that you go to a couple of local trials after contacting the trial chairman, introducing yourself and explaining that you want to know what these things are all about. I would absolutely not enter a dog and go in cold. I would bet that the chairman will try to hook you up with someone who you can kinda tag along with and explain things as they are happening.

RayG

Sharon wrote:Complicated. In American Field trials there can be 3 placements ( first, second .....)- 4 placements in some futurities. However . there doesn't have to be 3 placements. . If the Judges feel that 3 dogs didn't measure up , there can be only one placement, or none. Also depends on the number of dogs in that stake., ( puppy, Derby, Shooting Dog, All-age).

http://americanfield.villagesoup.com/p/ ... source=rss

Sharon,

Have you seen placements withheld in a FDSB trial?

I have always found it to be an AKC thing because of the points on the way to a title.

I have withheld Ch - RU, and reverted to 1-2-3.

Quailcommando I promise you I have lost a lot more then I have won!! You have to get them while your hot because things can cool off in a hurry & might take a while to come around again! If you can't handle it you won't be around long
but I enjoy all the dogs & most of the people & keeps me out of trouble somewhat.

RayGubernat wrote: .........................The above is one of the reasons why field trials are not for every person. If there are thirty dogs entered, there will be ONE winner and twenty nine LOSERS. Twenty nine owners will be disappointed.

In today's PC world where everybody gets a prize, even if all they did was show up, the concept of actually going to an event and getting absolutely nothing, no recognition, no nothing...is hard for some folks to take..........
RayG

In the seemingly popular spirit of picking apart every post - Every participant does get the wonderful gift of having their dog judged by a qualified Judge. The Judge is usually open to talking to the handler about what they could have done better too. To me this is well worth the price of admission. )... very good post Ray.

Neil wrote:

Sharon wrote:Complicated. In American Field trials there can be 3 placements ( first, second .....)- 4 placements in some futurities. However . there doesn't have to be 3 placements. . If the Judges feel that 3 dogs didn't measure up , there can be only one placement, or none. Also depends on the number of dogs in that stake., ( puppy, Derby, Shooting Dog, All-age).

http://americanfield.villagesoup.com/p/ ... source=rss

Sharon,

Have you seen placements withheld in a FDSB trial?

I have always found it to be an AKC thing because of the points on the way to a title.

I have withheld Ch - RU, and reverted to 1-2-3.

Definitely in Region 13/Ontario.... not in a Championship. Very small club and sometimes all the dogs are screw ups that day. Not a popular decision of course.

*edited out the word "lousy".

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:Quailcommando I promise you I have lost a lot more then I have won!! You have to get them while your hot because things can cool off in a hurry & might take a while to come around again! If you can't handle it you won't be around long
but I enjoy all the dogs & most of the people & keeps me out of trouble somewhat.

I agree 100% losing is a big part of it especially when running a young dog trying to get your feet wet. You have got to get envolved with the right people and its a very rewarding sport even when not winning.

If you enjoy the people and the conversations, camp fires and cold beers that will be enough to hold you.........for a while Its a crazy but a 3 place in puppy stakes 11 years ago hooked me. It's like golf, after each round I used to swear I'm going to give up the game, then I'd get around below 80 and all of a sudden, its the best game ever invented! CRAZY

First trial, first derby win and it cost me everything I owned but my dog and truck. Ex wife got the rest, I just couldn't imagine not having that dog. Now I'm on dog two and got another derby win the first time I put him down. Pretty sure I will be staying unmarried .
I have done both and a field trial win feels 100x better than my first MH pass. And a lot more exciting also.

The difference is in a field trial everyone says good luck, in a hunt test they may actually mean it. Both can be fun

vols fan wrote:The difference is in a field trial everyone says good luck, in a hunt test they may actually mean it. Both can be fun

Never been my experience. I've had some of the top handlers help me to be successful at the trial.

Same here, I have watched guys who's dog is being carried in a Championship scout an oppenents dog to the Championship.

Sharon wrote:

vols fan wrote:The difference is in a field trial everyone says good luck, in a hunt test they may actually mean it. Both can be fun

Never been my experience. I've had some of the top handlers help me to be successful at the trial.

Most of the time, I have experienced a very high degree of sportsmanship at trials. As previously stated, I too have seen folks whose dogs did a bang up job, out there in the next brace busting their butt, scouting for a competing handler.

One of the very great traditions in field trialing is how the handlers approach the contest. At the heart of this attitude is the fact that it is supposed to be about finding the best dog...not the best handler.

Two handlers will compete in a brace and they will do they very best they can to show that their dog is the best thing since sliced bread. Once their brace is done and their dog's race is run, those same handlers will, very often, be called upon to help another handler in a succeeding brace. Even though that other handler's goal is to beat them, the sport expects that the assisting handler do whatever they can to help defeat their own dog.

The fact that so many folks will do just that...help others to show their dogs to their fullest, even though it may "beat" their own dog's performance, is what makes the spoort kind of unique and special to me.

In AF trials at the weekend level, there really is not much to get nutso about because it is, at most, about local rivalries, which are, for the most part friendly. There is nothing earth shattering at stake. In championship stakes, there is more at stake, so there can be a little more stress. Interestingly, the folks, especially amateurs, who have dogs, and handle dogs that are competitive at the championship level, are also some of the very best sportsmen.

In AKC weekend trials, there are championship points at stake at virtually every stake, so that can sometimes tend to bring out the worst of a very few folks competitive nature. But even then it is relatively rare in my experience.

They key is to remember that it is supposed to be about the dogs and finding the best dog on any given day. If it is about the dogs it is usually pretty right. If it is about the people and not the dogs, that is when things tend to go south.

RayG

Neil wrote:

Sharon wrote:Complicated. In American Field trials there can be 3 placements ( first, second .....)- 4 placements in some futurities. However . there doesn't have to be 3 placements. . If the Judges feel that 3 dogs didn't measure up , there can be only one placement, or none. Also depends on the number of dogs in that stake., ( puppy, Derby, Shooting Dog, All-age).

http://americanfield.villagesoup.com/p/ ... source=rss

Sharon,

Have you seen placements withheld in a FDSB trial?

I have always found it to be an AKC thing because of the points on the way to a title.

I have withheld Ch - RU, and reverted to 1-2-3.

It happened to me. I was in an open shooting dog trial and only three of the dogs finished. My setter was one of the three, but she didn't have a bird so the Judges awarded 1st and 2nd, but withheld third place.

I admire trial Judges who with hold placements for good reasons. It's never a popular decision and takes courage, but holds the standard high, which to me is very important.

I also highly admire any dog that gets his FDX title( top of the hunt test series) in Canada= a very fine hunting dog.

See 8.3.1
http://www.ckc.ca/en/Portals/0/pdf/Rule ... %20Dog.pdf

Interesting thread. I will be testing the FT waters here real soon. Im sure its alot to learn

I have found that most FT pros and successful amatures are more than willing to help a newbie...... after the fact over coctails. It is a competitive venue and most folks bring a dog that they expect to place with. I have found that as far as being welcoming and socializing most FT crowds are more likely to sit and BS with a new comer, I dont know if its because riding in the gallery allows for more time to hang out, or if its just the nature of a weekend trial. My experience with HT was that there were a few cliques, locally we had the "show crowd" the 'NAVHAD guys and then the few misfits like myself who showed up with a dog that used the entire course (silly me), and they stuck to their own. While I'm certain it isn't like that every where I have found FT crowds more welcoming.

The fact that I often travel in big circles to FT often leaves me as the new guy wherever I go, and I have yet to feel unwelcome at an FT.

Tony is right I think for the most part. Just like shaking hands at the coin toss of a foot ball game, FT have alot of tradition behind them, and still for the most part seems like "gentlemans sport", and etiquette suggests that you wish your brace mate good luck, and thank the judges even when things don't pan out. At the end of the day I drove 6hrs (or 18) hauling dogs and horses because I expect a piece of the pie, if I didn't think I could compete I would stay home.... At an HT I dont really care what the other guys outcome is, Pass, Fail, or whatever, as long as my bracemate or their dog dont do something stupid to put me out, I really do wish them well, and my good luck is more than just an acknowledgement that they are there, I usually mean it.

Jim

ultracarry wrote:First trial, first derby win and it cost me everything I owned but my dog and truck. Ex wife got the rest, I just couldn't imagine not having that dog. Now I'm on dog two and got another derby win the first time I put him down. Pretty sure I will be staying unmarried .
I have done both and a field trial win feels 100x better than my first MH pass. And a lot more exciting also.

That's too bad that happened. Find a woman who likes dogs/trialing week ends. I'm sorry , but I'm taken.