Aggression towards a puppy

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benelli
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Aggression towards a puppy

Post by benelli » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:31 am

My male GSP (1.5 years, not neutered) has been good with other dogs, no real problems with neighbor dogs or anything like that, except this one lab puppy. The first time he met the puppy, she was I think 10 weeks old (this was about a month ago). Scout (my dog) was not on a leash, she (the puppy) was, and Scout gave a quick sniff, then suddenly went after the puppy fairly aggressively - not so much that we weren't able to intervene, but it was a surprise and definitely embarrassing. I grabbed Scout by the collar immediately and put him down on his back and held him there for probably a minute. He has seen the puppy a couple of times in the weeks between then and today, but I've never let him interact with the puppy much again.

This morning we saw the puppy at the park, and Scout and the puppy were "saying hi," and Scout started going after the puppy again. I was ready and put him on his back again, and after a little while I let him up and held his collar while the puppy came over to say hi. This time Scout behaved himself, but I could see the hair on his back standing up a little.

It's weird because he's never had any problems with other dogs. Do some dogs just not like/know how to interact with puppies? Obviously we need to watch him closely with other dogs ... any other advice?

I'm not looking for people telling me to get rid of the dog, put him down, give him lead vitamins, etc. He's otherwise not at all aggressive - super patient and trustworthy with our two kids (an infant and a toddler), plays just fine with every other dog he's met, and has literally NEVER, outside of these two instances, shown any sign of aggression.

jimbo&rooster
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Re: Aggression towards a puppy

Post by jimbo&rooster » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:05 am

sounds like scout is establishing his place in the pecking order..... My dogs will all roll a new puppy that shows up on the place a few times then it is a non issue.

I'm curiouse why people feel the need to put a dog on its back and hold it there? i have owned dozens of dogs including some very agressive hounds and have never done this or seen it done, but I hear it on the internet all the time.....? Not really trying to be an "bleep", just curious.

Jim

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Sharon
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Re: Aggression towards a puppy

Post by Sharon » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:13 am

[quote="benelli"]It's weird because he's never had any problems with other dogs. Do some dogs just not like/know how to interact with puppies? /quote]

Absolutely. Got a pup 4 months ago. For month one , one of my setters , who has always been very confident, was scared to death of him. She'd jump on anyone seated to be protected , try to crawl under the fence and not come in from the yard. Now she is fine and plays with the pup. The other setter plays so roughly with the pup that you'd swear they are fighting- they're not. When it's someone else's pup it's hard ,but here I let them work it out.It's not a puppy to an adult dog, it's a possible threat.

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Re: Aggression towards a puppy

Post by benelli » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:17 am

I put him on his back mostly because I feel like he should be punished for being aggressive, and it's something that Scout doesn't like (allegedly it's a dominance kind of thing), without me looking abusive. Those are the only two times I've done that to Scout ... in the situation it seems like something needs to be done and that's just kind of what I instinctively did, I guess.

What would you have done? What do other people do when their dog needs punishment? (That's probably an entirely separate thread, huh?)

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Re: Aggression towards a puppy

Post by benelli » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:19 am

Sharon wrote:When it's someone else's pup it's hard ,but here I let them work it out.It's not a puppy to an adult dog, it's a possible threat.
Yeah, if it was my puppy I'd probably turn them out in a yard or something together and see what happened (with spare hands available in case things turned sour), but I don't feel comfortable asking them to submit their puppy as the subject of Scout's Temperament Test.

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RoostersMom
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Re: Aggression towards a puppy

Post by RoostersMom » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:43 am

If you can't let them work it out - then just keep him away from that puppy all the time. If you don't plan on ever getting a puppy yourself or exposing him to puppies in general, this strategy should work.

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Re: Aggression towards a puppy

Post by jimbo&rooster » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:14 pm

benelli wrote: What would you have done? What do other people do when their dog needs punishment? (That's probably an entirely separate thread, huh?)
What would I have done? Probly the wrong thing..... I grew up with hounds and live stock and often will make a few harsh corrections that stick early, and after that usually a stern "NO" will curtail most situations. Like I said, I have heard of folks doing it to establish dominance, and show their alpha or whatever, but my thought is that by a year and a half old your dog should understand your place in the pack as leader.

I was just curious.

Jim

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deke
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Re: Aggression towards a puppy

Post by deke » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:39 pm

put a muzzle on him and introduce him to the puppy, that way you can tell if he is trying to hurt the pup or just show it who is the boss dog. It is a much harder thing to do when the puppy is not yours, but maybe you can convince the neighbor that doing this will help the dogs get along better in the future? One of my dogs acts the same way you are describing around other dogs, especially male pups, it lasts about twenty seconds and then they both move on and pee on a bush.

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TEX-X
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Re: Aggression towards a puppy

Post by TEX-X » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:47 pm

Delmar use to grab a fighting dog by the backlegs and spin them in 4 or 5 circles...what did that do? No telling. Does it work? Sometimes. Just something to think about. Muzzle scout and let them interact. Maybe if the pup submits scout will back off

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deke
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Re: Aggression towards a puppy

Post by deke » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:03 pm

TEX-X wrote:Delmar use to grab a fighting dog by the backlegs and spin them in 4 or 5 circles...what did that do? No telling. Does it work? Sometimes. Just something to think about. Muzzle scout and let them interact. Maybe if the pup submits scout will back off


That's what I was trying to say.

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Hattrick
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Re: Aggression towards a puppy

Post by Hattrick » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:15 pm

You did the right thing.

With really hard headed dogs trying to set dominace you sometimes have to piss on them while you have them on there back to put them in there place. I dont think ur guy needs that yet.

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Re: Aggression towards a puppy

Post by Neil » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:43 pm

Stay out of dog parks, they are an abomination, only bad things can come from them.

I am amazed there are not more deaths and unintended pregnancies, plus illnesses.

Find a safe place to work the dog, and only let him off lead to go to work.

But to answer your question, I have no idea why dogs don't like some dogs, but they don't. I also don't know why I have the same reaction to some people. Neither are a problem unless you have to work with them. If he attacks another dog training or hunting, correct him.

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TEX-X
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Re: Aggression towards a puppy

Post by TEX-X » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:27 am

Hattrick wrote:You did the right thing.

With really hard headed dogs trying to set dominace you sometimes have to piss on them while you have them on there back to put them in there place. I dont think ur guy needs that yet.
Will that work on my wife? :lol:

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Re: Aggression towards a puppy

Post by benelli » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:20 am

Hattrick wrote:You did the right thing.

With really hard headed dogs trying to set dominace you sometimes have to piss on them while you have them on there back to put them in there place. I dont think ur guy needs that yet.
Hmm ... I may have to let my husband or two-year-old boy take on that task. It would be really difficult for me to do that very subtly; I might get arrested if I did it myself, especially since we encounter this puppy at the neighborhood park. :lol:

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Re: Aggression towards a puppy

Post by Cajun Casey » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:56 am

I would keep him away from puppies who don't have good dog manners. Some dogs don't tolerate rowdy puppies just like some people don't tolerate rowdy children. He already has been exposed to the idea that the puppy will get him roughed up by you. If you don't know for sure if his agression was offense or defense, then don't test it further.

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Re: Aggression towards a puppy

Post by mountaindogs » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:33 am

How the puppy acted would help, but basically puppies do not usually have manners and young adult dogs get frustrated and want to make them chill. This could have been the case. Imagine you are sitting in the park and a two year old runs up and spits on you. What would you do. Well as an experienced adult you'd be MAD but you'd hold it together, might verbally say something like "STOP THAT!" and then you would leave if you needed to. But what if you were 10 yrs old. You might turn around snd shove them even though they do not know better yet. I don't know just an example. Not the best but gets you thinking.

But some dogs do not know how to act around puppies for sure! So you corrected aggression and that's fine, but do not over do it. You do not want your dog to think "owner rolls me and yells when puppies are around." I would reccomend this: Scold and walk/drag your dog away, then quickly do a calm behavior like sit and wait a few seconds for calm relaxed behavior then reward them for that. A minor low key reward. Then turn and face the puppy from a distance, and reward the dog for calm behavior while watching. If you have two people with you, have one of you go talk to the puppy briefly, not making dog jelous but enough to say we like this little thing, too. Meanwhile if your dog is calm through that you can reward calmly. If not, move further away gently, and be wary of jealous behavior. SOME dogs, most of mine in fact, take their cues from me so letting them know someone or something is okay with ME is helpful to them. A few dogs will get overly jealous or protective and this will not help them.

But it is not something you will fix immediatly, unless you have a rare dog. Usually it takes several visits and some care. It helps if the puppy is well socialized and offers play submissive signals. A very bold dominant puppy can make this harder for your dog.

Those are my musings with the caveat that this is the internet and I do not know either dog or the situation, at all. 8)

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