Snake bites

[Benjammin]

Never had to deal with one (thank God) but where I hunt they are there and I don't know what to do if my dog or me ever get bit. So would like to know if somebody know what I should do if that does ever happen.

[BigTub]

Same as people: get to medical care ASAP.

[birddog1968]

Find a snake breaking clinic, its done just as suggested for porkys in your other thread.

[gotpointers]

I don't know the exact details, but I've seen someone post that their vet gave them pre loaded and measured injectable benadryl syringes for when they were in the field.

[Meller]

I see your from Washington, what kind of poisonous snake's are there?

[fishvik]

I figure rattlesnakes are your concern. If the bite is on the leg or paw, put a constricting bandage like an ACE(not a tourniquet) on starting closest to the body and winding to the wound. Do this as quickly as possible. This will keep as much venom close to the bite and not let it spread to the rest of the body. Keep your dog and yourself calm (your dog will key in on you) and carry them to a vehicle and get medical help as soon as possible. Use benedryl if you have it. If the bite is to the head, face (as it usually is to a pointing breed like your GWP) or body skip the bandage and get to a doc. I've hunted alot in Idaho, Nevada, Oregon and Washington and have never seen many rattlers, but there's always the chance.

[walkos5]

Hey Benjammin,

Your concern is probably common for those who hunt in snake country but from my experience with my dog I think they have a natural built in respect for snakes and would avoid or at least keep his distance in the event he is confronted by one. I'm from PA and we have Eastern Timber Rattlers and Eastern Copperheads with a very small population of a Western PA Swamp Rattlers. The Timbers are more common and the most dangerous of the three. I have seen as many as 30 together at den sites which are hard to get to and rocky south facing slopes, and no where any one would be hunting. Rattlesnakes by October are usually back at den sites and those are the areas I would avoid. Your local fish and game department would have good advise on where those areas are. Keep this in mind, rattlers avoid dogs and humans at all cost, and bites often involve no venom at all, its called dry bite. The snake knows humans and dogs are not prey and their venom was designed by nature as a hunting tool. They will use it in self defense but wouldn't you too to survive. Happy hunting!

[birddog1968]

Hey Benjammin,

Your concern is probably common for those who hunt in snake country but from my experience with my dog I think they have a natural built in respect for snakes and would avoid or at least keep his distance in the event he is confronted by one. I'm from PA and we have Eastern Timber Rattlers and Eastern Copperheads with a very small population of a Western PA Swamp Rattlers. The Timbers are more common and the most dangerous of the three. I have seen as many as 30 together at den sites which are hard to get to and rocky south facing slopes, and no where any one would be hunting. Rattlesnakes by October are usually back at den sites and those are the areas I would avoid. Your local fish and game department would have good advise on where those areas are. Keep this in mind, rattlers avoid dogs and humans at all cost, and bites often involve no venom at all, its called dry bite. The snake knows humans and dogs are not prey and their venom was designed by nature as a hunting tool. They will use it in self defense but wouldn't you too to survive. Happy hunting!

Key words in red, there is a reason there are snake breaking clinics around the country.....

[DonF]

In all the years I've hunted eastern Oregon, I've only had a dog bit one time. About three years ago Squirt got it on the ankle. Happened on a sat and I didn't know it had happened. He got lethargic and Sunday morning his leg was swelled really bad. Got him to the vet first thing Monday morning and they weren't sure if it was a snake or spider that got him. Later on that day they were working on him and found the bite in his ankle. I've heard lot's of guy's recommend carrying benadryl, heard a couple vet's recommend it to. And then I've had vet's tell me not to worry about it. Keep the dog calm and get it out. If it was a fatal bite, in the vet's words, I't be dead or better before you can find a vet With the snake's we have in Oregon and probably washington, they are normally small and can't get a huge does of venom in the dog. A healthy dog or man normally survives the bite. Where that doesn't seem to work is a bite on the neck. I was told what happen's then is the venom doesn't kill the dog but the swelling cut's off the air supply and kills the dog.

I' don't know if any of that is true or not and have no desire to test the advice intentionally. I avoid much activity of any kind in rocky areas and don't get to excited about hunting until I feel the snakes have gone to nest. I have only one phobia, snakes so I generally ego out of my way to avoid them and kill everyone I run into. That probably works against me to. I'll kill a bull snake for being a snake. I'm told that bull snakes kill rattlesnakes. When Squirt got bit, he spent an entire day in the vet clinic. I don't know what they did and didn't ask. When I picked him up that evening his leg was still swollen but he acted like he felt better. The next afternoon the swelling was going down really good.

I was told I should probably get the snake shot for my dog's but didn't do it. Found out that it doesn't save the dog, just gives you a bit more time to get to the vet. Easier for me to stay away from snake areas during the year and hold off hunting a couple month's and let them den. better for me, better for my dog's and better for the snake!

[deke]

Go talk to your vet about your concerns, and get your dog the snake shot at the same time. Your vet should know quite a bit about the snakes around this area, and what course you should take. If your are from Northwest WA I can recommend a vet that is a avid bird hunter, and studied rattlers at WSU. He was very helpful answering all my questions before we took my pup over east the first time.

[mask]

Snake breaking and snake bite vaccine help. Most bites I have seen were run by hits. I have only seen one fatal bite and that dog was hit in the eyeball and died in about 20 min. I carry an injectable steroid and Benadryl during the snake season. I leave as little to chance as possible but since I run dogs year around there is always a chance for wreck. I kill every rattler I see and have never felt bad about it. Snakes may bite to protect themselves and I will kill snakes to protect me and mine.

[walkos5]

Hey Benjammin,

Your concern is probably common for those who hunt in snake country but from my experience with my dog I think they have a natural built in respect for snakes and would avoid or at least keep his distance in the event he is confronted by one. I'm from PA and we have Eastern Timber Rattlers and Eastern Copperheads with a very small population of a Western PA Swamp Rattlers. The Timbers are more common and the most dangerous of the three. I have seen as many as 30 together at den sites which are hard to get to and rocky south facing slopes, and no where any one would be hunting. Rattlesnakes by October are usually back at den sites and those are the areas I would avoid. Your local fish and game department would have good advise on where those areas are. Keep this in mind, rattlers avoid dogs and humans at all cost, and bites often involve no venom at all, its called dry bite. The snake knows humans and dogs are not prey and their venom was designed by nature as a hunting tool. They will use it in self defense but wouldn't you too to survive. Happy hunting!

Key words in red, there is a reason there are snake breaking clinics around the country.....

Yes we must use common sense that if a dog steps on a snake while running a bite is a good bet. MY reference to natural built in respect is the FACT that many dogs have been found barking at but keeping distance because of the unknown. Happened to me this past summer as I watched my dog deal with a 4ft eastern black racer. Anyone who knows racers knows how aggressive they are, and he never tagged the dog once.

[birddog1968]

lol, I bow to your vast wealth of knowledge based on one hunting dog and one black racer. I humbly bow out.....

Here's a neat little article for you to read, I know how much you like google search.
http://www.beaglesunlimited.com/trainin ... oid-snakes

Summer months are the time of year when all types of venomous snakes such as rattlesnakes, cottonmouths (also known as water moccasins), and copperheads are out in full force. I can't tell you how many times I have heard that someone's hunting dog has been bitten by a pit viper. Since the weather is generally hot during summer training and early season hunting, the risk of a deadly encounter with a poisonous snake is very high. I want you to know that 95% or more of snake bitten dogs are due to a lack of proper training on the hunter's part. All dogs have a natural curiosity about snakes since they give off such a strong and pungent odor. The dog's curiosity will compel it to go and investigate the scent or even the sound of a rattlesnake's rattling tail. That is why nearly all hunting dogs are bitten in the face, neck, and front leg areas. Rarely are dogs surprised and bitten by a snake as the dog walks by one, it is nearly always a snake that the dog is curiously checking out that gives the lethal or near lethal strike. Another interesting fact is that most reference sources about venomous snakes state that 60% of all humans that are bitten by venomous snakes each year were bitten because they were messing around with a snake and trying to pick it up rather than simply avoiding it. Perhaps we humans also need some "snake avoidance" training.


Here's some FAQ for the OP on the vaccine http://www.redrockbiologics.com/rattles ... ne_faq.php

[walkos5]

lol, I bow to your vast wealth of knowledge based on one hunting dog and one black racer. I humbly bow out.....

Here's a neat little article for you to read, I know how much you like google search.
http://www.beaglesunlimited.com/trainin ... oid-snakes

Summer months are the time of year when all types of venomous snakes such as rattlesnakes, cottonmouths (also known as water moccasins), and copperheads are out in full force. I can't tell you how many times I have heard that someone's hunting dog has been bitten by a pit viper. Since the weather is generally hot during summer training and early season hunting, the risk of a deadly encounter with a poisonous snake is very high. I want you to know that 95% or more of snake bitten dogs are due to a lack of proper training on the hunter's part. All dogs have a natural curiosity about snakes since they give off such a strong and pungent odor. The dog's curiosity will compel it to go and investigate the scent or even the sound of a rattlesnake's rattling tail. That is why nearly all hunting dogs are bitten in the face, neck, and front leg areas. Rarely are dogs surprised and bitten by a snake as the dog walks by one, it is nearly always a snake that the dog is curiously checking out that gives the lethal or near lethal strike. Another interesting fact is that most reference sources about venomous snakes state that 60% of all humans that are bitten by venomous snakes each year were bitten because they were messing around with a snake and trying to pick it up rather than simply avoiding it. Perhaps we humans also need some "snake avoidance" training.




Here's some FAQ for the OP on the vaccine http://www.redrockbiologics.com/rattles ... ne_faq.php

I guess some dogs have better instincts then others. I have also witnessed other dogs that keep their distance from snakes.

[hi-tailyn]

I have helped my local GSP club do the snake avoidance clinics for the last 15 yrs, and I have seen more than a 1000 dogs come through and only maybe a handful tried to stay away from the snake, unless they were a redo just to test their memory.

Most sniff and watch then they just haft to get a real good sniff and that is when the snake strikes them.

The first snake at our clinic, has its rattles taped so no sound. Just visual and smell. Once dogs learns to avoid this snake They are shown a snake that is a rattling machine and even though they know the sight and smell is really bad, they just haft to get a closer look. Bad idea for the dog.

They may bark and bark, but if they stay around long enough they will get bit. :roll:

Curiosity is what will kill the dog or cat.

[Quailcommando]

Hey Benjammin,

Your concern is probably common for those who hunt in snake country but from my experience with my dog I think they have a natural built in respect for snakes and would avoid or at least keep his distance in the event he is confronted by

DO NOT GO FOR THIS ADVISE! I hunt a in a very hi populated venomous snake state deal with them all the time have your dog snake broke! Dogs investigate and are very curious about them they may bob and weive but sooner or later they will get it. I've seen and have lost dogs to snakes.

[SD44]

Dogs are naturally attracted to snakes as they give off a musty or pungent odor. The best prevention is to take your dog to a snake avoidance clinic. I would check with your vet, pheasants forever chapter and breeders/trainers in your area to see what type of snakes are in your area and if any of them know of any snake avoidance clinics.

Good Luck.

[walkos5]

Hey Benjammin,

Your concern is probably common for those who hunt in snake country but from my experience with my dog I think they have a natural built in respect for snakes and would avoid or at least keep his distance in the event he is confronted by

DO NOT GO FOR THIS ADVISE! I hunt a in a very hi populated venomous snake state deal with them all the time have your dog snake broke! Dogs investigate and are very curious about them they may bob and weive but sooner or later they will get it. I've seen and have lost dogs to snakes.

Dogs may be curious but I have seen many keep their distance too. I'm sure some dogs are more curious then others and learn the hard way too. You do have more to deal with down there. Lots of big snakes moving in down there too. In PA at least we don't have any dangerous water snakes and even our rattlesnake population is not a big concern in most areas and is in decline.

[hi-tailyn]

$50 for Snake avoidance and $10 for Rattle snake vaccine is cheap insurance. Paying $1300-1800 for snake bite treatment with anti-venom.

Giving advice to take your chances by doing nothing is not poor advice, it is Bad advice. :roll:

Like leaving a loaded hand gun with a 6 yr old, even if they are familiar with it. He is curious and if he plays with it enough it will go off.

Your lucky if you live is low snake population country. For those of us that do, vaccination and avoidance training is the cheap insurance.

This is the better advice for those that hunt in snake country.

[walkos5]

$50 for Snake avoidance and $10 for Rattle snake vaccine is cheap insurance. Paying $1300-1800 for snake bite treatment with anti-venom.

Giving advice to take your chances by doing nothing is not poor advice, it is Bad advice. :roll:

Like leaving a loaded hand gun with a 6 yr old, even if they are familiar with it. He is curious and if he plays with it enough it will go off.

Your lucky if you live is low snake population country. For those of us that do, vaccination and avoidance training is the cheap insurance.

This is the better advice for those that hunt in snake country.

How effective is the snake avoidance training? And how many lessons does it take for a dog to show he has it down? Just curious, because dogs seem to learn little from a face full of porcupine needles, meaning they forget and in time they make the same mistakes. Why not just get the vaccination?

[hi-tailyn]

$50 for Snake avoidance and $10 for Rattle snake vaccine is cheap insurance. Paying $1300-1800 for snake bite treatment with anti-venom.

Giving advice to take your chances by doing nothing is not poor advice, it is Bad advice. :roll:

Like leaving a loaded hand gun with a 6 yr old, even if they are familiar with it. He is curious and if he plays with it enough it will go off.

Your lucky if you live is low snake population country. For those of us that do, vaccination and avoidance training is the cheap insurance.

This is the better advice for those that hunt in snake country.

How effective is the snake avoidance training? And how many lessons does it take for a dog to show he has it down? Just curious, because dogs seem to learn little from a face full of porcupine needles, meaning they forget and in time they make the same mistakes. Why not just get the vaccination?

porcupine and skunks etc.

It is prey drive!

That is why you can't stop a dog fight with a e-collar.

Avoidance training: only about 2-3 out of 50 that come back for a re-test each year, even think about getting a closer look at the snakes. All the others are looking for a way to get around the snake area to get to where it is safe.

I have seen it work in person with my own dogs in W. TX and even around town when training.

I have heard of guys thinking about doing a porquipine avoidance training for their dogs. Don't know if it would work the same as with snakes.

We all do avoidance training on deer, rabbits etc. My dogs totally ignore running deer or rabbits any more. Just keep on hunting.

[kninebirddog]

$50 for Snake avoidance and $10 for Rattle snake vaccine is cheap insurance. Paying $1300-1800 for snake bite treatment with anti-venom.

Giving advice to take your chances by doing nothing is not poor advice, it is Bad advice. :roll:

Like leaving a loaded hand gun with a 6 yr old, even if they are familiar with it. He is curious and if he plays with it enough it will go off.

Your lucky if you live is low snake population country. For those of us that do, vaccination and avoidance training is the cheap insurance.

This is the better advice for those that hunt in snake country.

How effective is the snake avoidance training? And how many lessons does it take for a dog to show he has it down? Just curious, because dogs seem to learn little from a face full of porcupine needles, meaning they forget and in time they make the same mistakes. Why not just get the vaccination?

I would much rather do the avoidance as a dog that will avoid a snake is much better off..The vaccine does NOT make a dog impervious to snake bites and it does nothing against all types of snakes and you still need to get the dog to the vet.
I know of a couple dogs that have died that were vaccinated I know of and have had or have dogs that have been struck that haven't had the fancy vaccine that have survived quite well with basic treatment that didn't cost in the thousands of dollars and then yes I know of dogs that died because of where they were hit ....but over all via ranching and bird dogs I have seen many other things do more damage to dogs then snakes.
Many dogs have been bitten Cortisone and Antibiotics is the most important thing to get done. Many old time vets or large animal ranch vets are a little less dramatic about when a dog gets bit..most ranchers I know let the dog go under the porch and heal up on their own maybe dosing the dog with a shot of Penicillin if it was one of their better dogs that got bit.

BENEDRAYL or histamine blockers do NOTHING for venom bites

[mask]

OK, I don't know about areas other than where I live. Here according to four vets anyway, the snake vaccine is very helpful in most cases. It does depend on how well an individual builds antibodies after the vaccine is given. As far as emergency treatment goes I was told that injectable Benadryl will help keep blood pressure from dropping and with anaphylactic shock as well( it is administered by all four of these vets any time a dog is brought in with a snake bite). An injectable steroid is also recommended. I will continue to carry these with me during snake season and continue to use the snake vaccine as well. You can look at it anyway you like, cheap insurance of a waste of money, they are your dogs treat them any that suits you.

[thedogmother]

My dogs get a rattle snake vaccination and I carry injectable Benadryl. I have heard by several different experts that different types of rattle snakes have different scents, so if you take your dog through a voidance class that uses Diamond Backs they might not smell the same as a Timber or Mojave Green, etc. So the dog might not always stay clear.

[zrp]

Get the vaccine. It minimizes the effects of rattlesnake bites. Copperheads and cottonmouth bites can be treated with antihistamines, anti-inflammatories and antibiotics with great success.

[kninebirddog]

UC Davis article http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/whatsnew/ ... fm?id=1883

"The Canine Rattlesnake Vaccine (Red Rock Biologics) comprises venom components from Crotalus atrox (Western Diamondback). The vaccine became available in the early 2000s as a means of preventing morbidity and mortality in dogs likely to be bitten by rattlesnakes. Although there may be circumstances where a rattlesnake vaccine may be potentially useful for dogs that frequently encounter rattlesnakes, there remains little fact-based data to support the efficacy of the vaccine to date. Dogs do develop neutralizing antibody titers to C. atrox venom, but titers may vary and frequent boosters (4-6 months) may be required to maintain titers. Vaccine costs are between $20.00 to $40.00 per injection. According to the manufacturer, rare vaccinated dogs have died following a bite when there were substantial delays (12-24 hours) in seeking treatment. According to the manufacturer, no new efficacy trials have been performed to verify efficacy.
.....
Although the product is relatively safe, even vaccinated dogs bitten by rattlesnakes should be considered a veterinary emergency. This is due to the fact that 1) snake venom components vary with species and some (e.g., Mojave rattlesnake) may not be covered by the vaccine 2) antibody titers may be overwhelmed in the face of severe envenomation, and 3) an individual dog may lack protection depending on its response to the vaccine and the time elapsed since vaccination.

Antivenin and other types of supportive care are still recommended in vaccinated dogs as there is no significant difference in the course of therapy if the animal is bitten.

[DonF]

I don't get the anti shot. As I understand it a fetal bite is still a fetal bite. Shot gives a bit more time to get to a vet. I don't do avoidance training either. I find it a lot better to identify places you might find snakes and avoid them and I don't hunt till late season after the snakes are gone. I had Squirt bit by one several years ago, got it in the ankle. Probably a run by. Leg swelled up a lot and I did get him to the vet. They gave him something, don't remember what, IV's I think. They watched him for a day and said he was good to go. Took about three days for the swelling to go away. Only dog in thirty some years hunting in snake country that has got bit and it wasn't during bird season. After that one scare, I don't think I'd put a dog down in one of the states known for snakes.

[mask]

I get the vaccine for 11 bucks a shot and give the shot myself. The antivenin is about $800 a vial if you can find a vet that carries it. Most dogs require more than one vial. I hunt from three to five hours to the nearest vet that carries antivenin and it should be used from two to four hours after the bite max. Longer than two hours is questionable.

[mcclinj]

I hunt in PA as well....Dependent on temperatures, both of PA's woodland venomous snakes may be found outside of their dens until mid-late November. Typical habitats include blowdowns and slash piles.....otherwise known as grouse habitat.

-John

[Frankug]

Snake bites:
I hunt in Georgia. Big snakes and I have seen lots of snake bites. Small dogs and big. It matters what time of year they get bit here. Fall bite less worry. Spring bite after denning and venom build up, get worried. I give all my dogs the western diamondback anti venom shot. It is cheap. I also give benydrel after bite. It works. If I am even going to take a dog to a vet after the bite, they would give a synthetic steroid. Used to live a long way from vets office, so he gave me a syringe of that to carry, I gave several shots of that and benydrel. They say a synthetic steroid works best on a snake bite. I am not a vet but I have also never had a dog die from a snake bite. Knock on wood. Had several dogs get bit this summer and spent $3000 on one. Next one to get bitten got to ride it out under the porch, she's fine but head swelled up like a soccer ball. The big dogs I worry less about a snake bite, the little ones I get more concerned about and end up spending too much money on at some city vet. One Story, had a beagle that had received the antivenom for western diamondback and was hunting in Alabama, got bit. No mistaking what they look like after a bite, scared shitless running to find me. One of my smallest beagles max of 15 lbs. Snake hit her in the throat. Got her to the country vet and he started her on steroids. The vet was nervous about her size. The puncture holes were measured on the neck by the vet and they were 1.5" apart, that is what Yanks call a serpent and we call a snake. The beagles head and throat swelled but to lesser affects than expected, but it swelled. She always had a scar, but never had any of the sloughing of the skin and hair as so many snake bites can cause. She lived. Was it the antivenom? I don't know but the vet kind of thought so. This was probably a Timber rattlesnake and not even the dreaded Eastern Diamondback that I grew up hunting around in South Georgia. They get huge. Seen 7 footers.