Tri color GSP pups

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:49 pm

Tri Color GSP Pups! $1000 must be another special color. check out http://www.gundogsonline.com go to pointing puppies 4 sale

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:38 pm

The champion lines they referred to may be the recent National CH Shadow Oak Bo.

SD44 · Post by **SD44** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:11 pm

Tri color GSP?

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:23 pm

Go look at the ad they have tan markings on their face.

http://www.gundogsonline.com/hunting-do ... 73653.html

SD44 · Post by **SD44** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:39 pm

Wow! That is a first. Very strange seeing a GSP with the extra color.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:46 pm

Ch Strut got into the woodshed.....

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:51 pm

Yeah Strut came to my mind as well.

Ms. Cage · Post by **Ms. Cage** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:10 pm

SD44 wrote:Wow! That is a first. Very strange seeing a GSP with the extra color.

Far from the first. Stick around, there will be more!!!

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:13 pm

Yep as long as people are buying them & paying big money because they are RARE!! :roll:

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:35 am

Just looked at the pup pic. It has tan on the legs as well as the face. I think the pup looks attractive but not attractive enough to pay well over the usual for one.

Bill T.

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:02 pm

SD44 wrote:Tri color GSP?

Some folks confuse "tri color" with ticked. I know..........

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:07 pm

Sharon wrote:
SD44 wrote:Tri color GSP?

Some folks confuse "tri color" with ticked. I know..........

The puppy in the ad was clear white with tan points over the eyes and on the legs. Neither ticked nor roan was part of the equation.

mask · Post by **mask** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:03 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:
Sharon wrote:
SD44 wrote:Tri color GSP?

Some folks confuse "tri color" with ticked. I know..........
The puppy in the ad was clear white with tan points over the eyes and on the legs. Neither ticked nor roan was part of the equation.

So what is it?

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:18 pm

LOL It's not ticked. I was simply saying that some less experienced people confuse ticked with tri.

Ms. Cage · Post by **Ms. Cage** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:34 pm

mask wrote:So what is it?

White/ liver/tan. Not desirable

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:36 pm

There is 3 different pup's pics in that ad & all have tan markings on the face on the cheeks around muzzle & points over the eyes.I personaly don't see any definite tan markings on the legs.

mask · Post by **mask** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:20 pm

I don't know much about gsp. Are these pups "pure", will they be registered, should they be culled?

Ms. Cage · Post by **Ms. Cage** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:52 pm

mask wrote:I don't know much about gsp. Are these pups "pure", will they be registered, should they be culled?

pups could be pure. One of the foundation females brought into this country had tan markings. At a $ 1,000 .00 they should be . Culling, debatable.

thedogmother · Post by **thedogmother** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:03 pm

Not that I would buy a GSP with tan but some of the early GSPs were tri colored. Don't forget, the GSP was developed using pointing dogs and hounds.

Good article
http://www.westwindgsps.com/german_shor ... istory.htm

Georgia Boy · Post by **Georgia Boy** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:19 am

mask wrote:I don't know much about gsp. Are these pups "pure", will they be registered, should they be culled?

They will be registered right along with the GSP/Pointer crosses

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:24 am

No such thing as GSP/ pointer cross..... They would just be a GSP.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:35 am

Until the GSPCA steps up and requires DNA of color as part of the breed standard, this (and the lemon pups) will continue to pollute the breed. You can quote all the ancient history you want. Shorthairs are not lemon or orange and they do not exhibit tan patterning.

Georgia Boy · Post by **Georgia Boy** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:21 pm

ultracarry wrote:No such thing as GSP/ pointer cross..... They would just be a GSP.

Good point

Is that the rational the folks that have bred English Pointer into them use

:roll:

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=44177&p=407637&hil ... SP#p407637

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:40 pm

Georgia Boy wrote:
ultracarry wrote:No such thing as GSP/ pointer cross..... They would just be a GSP.
Good point Is that the rational the folks that have bred English Pointer into them use :roll:

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=44177&p=407637&hil ... SP#p407637

I think cross breeding goes both ways. You can call the pups whatever you can get away with but they will always just be a crossbred dog.

Ezzy

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:45 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Georgia Boy wrote:
ultracarry wrote:No such thing as GSP/ pointer cross..... They would just be a GSP.
Good point Is that the rational the folks that have bred English Pointer into them use :roll:

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=44177&p=407637&hil ... SP#p407637
I think cross breeding goes both ways. You can call the pups whatever you can get away with but they will always just be a crossbred dog.

Ezzy

Yes!

Charlie

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:01 pm

Exactly!

boonebrit · Post by **boonebrit** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:56 pm

thedogmother wrote:Not that I would buy a GSP with tan but some of the early GSPs were tri colored. Don't forget, the GSP was developed using pointing dogs and hounds.

Good article
http://www.westwindgsps.com/german_shor ... istory.htm

Found this interesting within, detailing an original important ancestor:

"Feldmann I, an early experimental animal, who looked more like a Basset Hound was even tri-colored. Yes, there are still a few tri-colors born today - although most are quickly killed by ignorant breeders who assume that something they didn’t know about must have happened at breeding. NFC/FC Patrica von Frulord who won both National Field Trial Championships in 1971 was a tri-color. Normally a tri-color will have a small patch or two that is tan in color."

Ms. Cage · Post by **Ms. Cage** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:29 pm

boonebrit wrote:Yes, there are still a few tri-colors born today - although most are quickly killed by ignorant breeders who assume that something they didn’t know about must have happened at breeding. NFC/FC Patrica von Frulord who won both National Field Trial Championships in 1971 was a tri-color.

Yes , some breeders are ignorant to tri. Some are not. Some don't want anything to do with tri color. Although we go by AKC stanard set by the GSPCA in Germany the tri is allowed by stanard. You never, never see 1 on their website . Germans dunk them too.

mask · Post by **mask** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:30 pm

No body would register a pointer x gsp cross as a pointer unless they wanted to set pointers back 100 years or more.

I don't know how this thread got around to cross breeding but it's getting pretty funny.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:08 pm

So I guess you never heard that Bob Wehle crossed GSPS into his pointer line to get more biddable dogs.I have heard he stated that in one of the books he wrote don't know how true it is but have heard it from people that swear he told them the same thing in conversations they had with him.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:00 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:Until the GSPCA steps up and requires DNA of color as part of the breed standard, this (and the lemon pups) will continue to pollute the breed. You can quote all the ancient history you want. Shorthairs are not lemon or orange and they do not exhibit tan patterning.

I hear the same argument about black.............................Cj

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:36 pm

cjhills wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:Until the GSPCA steps up and requires DNA of color as part of the breed standard, this (and the lemon pups) will continue to pollute the breed. You can quote all the ancient history you want. Shorthairs are not lemon or orange and they do not exhibit tan patterning.
I hear the same argument about black.............................Cj

The introduction of black into the development of the German shorthaired pointer is well known and documented, as well as accepted by parent clubs of the breed. Not so tan pattern and "ee" coloring.

millerms06 · Post by **millerms06** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:07 am

In the ad the visit our website works. Pretty interesting and diverse business by the way. Their website shows pictures of some dogs in the upland bird hunts link. The dogs in the pictures look like the same couple of dogs (guide dogs perhaps owned by the seller?). Could be what the seller referred to as the sire and dam being "working dogs."

I would be curious if anyone asked for a copy of the pedigree?

millerms06 · Post by **millerms06** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:14 am

With the exception of these two dogs extracted from the seller's website in the first page of upland bird hunt photos...

clink83 · Post by **clink83** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:42 pm

Rare allelle combinations may be an indication of outcrossing, but it could just be a rare remnant of the foundation stock used to create the breed. Everyone always fly's the "outcross " flags on threads like these, but its not always the case.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:53 pm

clink83 wrote:Rare allelle combinations may be an indication of outcrossing, but it could just be a rare remnant of the foundation stock used to create the breed. Everyone always fly's the "outcross " flags on threads like these, but its not always the case.

More and more rare remnants popping up all the time, and more people willing to pay extra for "rare" colors.

markj · Post by **markj** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:20 pm

In the 70s we had a tri colored springer. I dont know if that was normal as she didnt hunt at all. Very interesting....

I got as truck is multi colored, I am gonna advertise it as "rare" and ask 4 times its worth. Wish me luck

Wildweeds · Post by **Wildweeds** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:46 pm

Well they used to have a breed warden in the motherland and goofy looking puppies went into a bucket.People that know what they are doing nowadays would chuck them in a bucket too.But as of lately when the oddball paint jobs show up it's internet time with 10 pages of comments complete with pictures and names of sires and name calling.Whether its pointer influenced through russian roulette genetic wheels or a goofy recessive from 40 to 100 years ago.They still ain't worth no thousand bucks weird one off color or not.

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:32 pm

I am going to chime in here, but I am NOT going to name names.
There have been other Tri GSP's discussed on this very site so search it, if you want names. Both the Tri and the lemons and even a dilute (wiem type color) have been know to show up in established well known lines. Some of those have had DNA testing. The strange thing about this litter is that all the puppies seem tri. In all other instances I know of, only 1 puppy in the litter showed up with an off color. Makes me suspect at least one parent was tri also.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:10 pm

mountaindogs wrote:I am going to chime in here, but I am NOT going to name names.
There have been other Tri GSP's discussed on this very site so search it, if you want names. Both the Tri and the lemons and even a dilute (wiem type color) have been know to show up in established well known lines. Some of those have had DNA testing. The strange thing about this litter is that all the puppies seem tri. In all other instances I know of, only 1 puppy in the litter showed up with an off color. Makes me suspect at least one parent was tri also.

Just because the line was well lnown doesn't mean everythong else was on the level.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:39 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:
mountaindogs wrote:I am going to chime in here, but I am NOT going to name names.
There have been other Tri GSP's discussed on this very site so search it, if you want names. Both the Tri and the lemons and even a dilute (wiem type color) have been know to show up in established well known lines. Some of those have had DNA testing. The strange thing about this litter is that all the puppies seem tri. In all other instances I know of, only 1 puppy in the litter showed up with an off color. Makes me suspect at least one parent was tri also.
Just because the line was well lnown doesn't mean everythong else was on the level.

Depends on what is meant by well known and the way it was used here does make a difference in my book.

Ezzy

millerms06 · Post by **millerms06** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:17 pm

With the topic in hand, I had sent an email to the seller to see if I can get a legit issued pedigree on the litter's sire and dam. Would be interesting to see what is on it. Hopefully I get something back.

I think how mountaindogs commented was appropriate. What he is talking about is deemed public knowledge. He does not need to explain anything nor does anyone need to ask. Nor does this thread pave the door to reopen previous topics to muddy up the already concise train of thought. Like he said, just use the forum's search function if you would like to refresh your memories.

Why is such logic not a good suggestion? I do not feel it to be an opportunity to develop a tangent. Maybe I am a minority with this....

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:48 pm

I am making no assumptions. I personally will not be buying from those kennels have notes on lineages so I can make my best choices. But you should know that DNA profiled parents have produced tri puppies that check out as their own puppies. What that means is yours to conclude. But if you are really interested in which lines do the search. The info is there.

millerms06 · Post by **millerms06** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:55 pm

Got pedigrees just now..Sounds like one puppy is left for sale.

millerms06 · Post by **millerms06** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:59 pm

Here is the Sire

Sire - 5 Generation.pdf

Here is the Dam

Dam - 5 Generation.pdf

markj · Post by **markj** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:15 am

Sir Frederick Von Flintstone

I like that name

millerms06 · Post by **millerms06** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:38 pm

markj wrote:
Sir Frederick Von Flintstone

I like that name

This is what was included with the pedigrees:

"Our bloodlines were obtained and breed for one reason, to produce excellent close working hunting companions. We are a professional pheasant hunting operation for over 27 years and we do not indulge in competitive hunting of any kind. We have one puppy left for sale to a suitable home."

Wildweeds · Post by **Wildweeds** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:21 pm

Hidden hollow rowdy repeater is a multi repeater in the sire,look at how many littermates of that princess breeding there is in there in the fourth gen.Looks like some kind of onset of line breeding to me.That right there could be the key to the funny colors,the other possibiblity for funny colors could come from some of the other dogs I see in there.

GSPnewbie2013 · Post by **GSPnewbie2013** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:41 pm

Look at the January 2013 shorthair journal cover of 2012 NFC trey and there is a third color on his neck.

Quailcommando · Post by **Quailcommando** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:02 pm

GSPnewbie2013 wrote:Look at the January 2013 shorthair journal cover of 2012 NFC trey and there is a third color on his neck.

I think most GSP have that third color at times. Looks like a shadow from his ear.