Training birds, homer's vrs ferals

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DonF
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Training birds, homer's vrs ferals

Post by DonF » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:30 pm

I have used feral pigeons for 30 some years for training. Now I've had homer's for a couple years but still keep my ferals around. All the birds I have out in the loft's with the exception of two homer's were hatched right here. When Squirt and Bodie were pup's, they started on ferals. That's is all I'd ever used and they work great. Their problem is, maybe, they might not home from far enough away. I can get 50 mi pretty easily but got homer's because I wanted to get a lot farther away to train. So, a couple years ago, in came the homer's. Boy do they home well!

Recently I have been really starting to pay attention to what my homer's do. I notice that I have actually had homer's come out of the remote traps and land on the ground right there! I've never had a feral do that. Another thing is that when using my foot traps, the homer's will simply walk out and look around and I have to flush them. Not very good for a pup non remote traps. Both strains, feral and homer will home from farther away than is normally needed. I have sent birds home with Gertie and one time she held them and used them on her dog a couple days later and every one came home. She lives about 70+/- miles from here. I don't think I'd attempt that with my ferals but, I have over the years had a few that came home that far.

Some of us will tell you that one of the best things about pigeons is that they don't come out and plop down on the ground again. My homer's have changed that thought. They do do sometimes exactly what I don't want with a pup starting out. I Think the feral will be much better starting birds because, I've never seen one do that. Now some time back Gertie came over with her dog, Gertie. Gertis the people is actually Holly. We had Gertie out on a check cord and were tossing birds for her as she came near me, working on stop to flush. A few time's we noticed that the homer's even when tossed from hand had this miserable of falling from the air like a sack of peas and just walking around until I'd go flush them. Thinking about that, That's a great exercise! I used to use feral birds for that but to get them to hit the ground and walk around, I had to pull flight feather's. To get them to stay on the ground, I have to hobble them with pipe cleaner's. Then to get them out of there, I had to chase then around, they couldn't fly. it work's but the way it happen's with the homer's is much better to help get the dog standing even when it sees the bird up and walking around.

So it has occurred to me that I am best off with both feral and homer pigeon's. Ferals to start them and homer's to finish them. They both have trait's a bit different and taking advantage of those trait's seem a good thing to do to me. If you don't use remote traps but rather a check cord, then I don't think it will make much difference. Then you control what the dog does with the cc rather than controlling the bird and let the dog learn on it's own.

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ezzy333
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Re: Training birds, homer's vrs ferals

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:13 pm

I have never had my homers land on the ground after being launched. The get into the air and head to the loft. But if they do like yours I think you are handling right.

Ezzy

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Re: Training birds, homer's vrs ferals

Post by mountaindogs » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:53 pm

interesting points.


I have had a few fly circles then land again, but usually when they are young or if I have not had them flying much and they are weaker. My young wild puppy caught one. And a client dog caught one last fall. But some of mine are Rollers, though none truly "roll." Mine have never homed that far. They seem confused even more than 1 mile away. We have MANY hawks also so I do not let them free fly much. If I do it's only for an hour or two in the late afternoon.

I have ferals now that I have had seperate for a month. I dewormed them and ran antibiotics through them, then probiotics. I would like to add them in, so I can consolidate to one coop and convert the other to a quail johnny house. But I do not want to bring in another illness. An local guy told me that he added some ferals in to his genetics (not pedigree birds) to get "hardier" more resistant birds. Heard of this?

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Re: Training birds, homer's vrs ferals

Post by Fun dog » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:43 pm

I've never had feral pigeons, but I love my homers. A few young ones have fallen out of the launcher onto the ground, but once they learn how to fly it doesn't happen. It's so much fun to launch the birds and have them make it home before I do.

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DonF
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Re: Training birds, homer's vrs ferals

Post by DonF » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:51 pm

Boy my homer's do sometime's come out and land right away. And quite a few more just try to walk away from the foot trap. Now the breeding feral and homer to get hardier birds, huh! I've been thinking about putting some young un flown birds into my feral loft but to maybe help them home farther. This habit of some of the birds just landing right away works really nice for me. The couple that landed when I tossed them for Gertie were good. Shocked me at first but now I like it.

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Re: Training birds, homer's vrs ferals

Post by Wildweeds » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:01 pm

Wow that's unusual,my homers have never done that either,they get up and go,over 1/2 of mine don't even circle most of the time,they just get going going gone.Nice thing about having both types though is when you get to needing to kill some birds you can put in the feral stunt double instead of killing your homers.I have had the situations arise where the dog did such a good job that I've smoked a homer for them though.

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tailcrackin
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Re: Training birds, homer's vrs ferals

Post by tailcrackin » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:47 am

Hey Don, it isn't a bad thing that the homers sometimes just land on the ground right there. Ex specially, when your focused on the steady work. What could happen, if you let it..........dogs on point, thinks dad is going to go up an flush, and the bird flies off.........but this time, without the dog knowing, you open a door of opportunity.
At this exact moment, you changed the rules, you have given he dog to make a choice for itself. I can stand here like always, and let Dad do his work.....or.....I can help him, and see if my choice is better.
When you allow the dog to show what its thinking, and do what it thinks is best.......9 out of 10 times, its gonna nock it. Let it do it, and commit, to the chase......... because.....the corrections are the same, and you have given the dog something to think about, in the later part of the steady work. When you go to loose birds, and are done with the traps..........the thoughts on nocking will prolly reshow itself. But, its already been there, and done that. The excitement, isn't as strong, most times..........because it will remember being corrected. It wont be as tempted to try, because it will know, that the chase, and everything, wont be allowed to happen, as much as dog thinks it is.
Or, a lot of times, it will try.........it'll nock it.....then step.....step...................step. It will kinda ponder a little to see if you have caught it doing it, or if your gonna allow the lil bit of chase to happen. So, your actually getting a lot of work done, with out the dog really knowing it. You just have to adjust to the situation, and act accordingly. You cannot make a fair correction, if the dogs never mess up. Thanks Jonesy

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DonF
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Re: Training birds, homer's vrs ferals

Post by DonF » Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:24 am

Ya buddy. First time it happened I about had a coronary. Then thinking about it I though, man that is great. All of them don't do it and I really should mark the ones that do but I probably won't get around to it. The future is feral for pup's and started dog's not far enough along yet and homer's for the dog's farther along. Amazes me nobody else has had this happen. maybe it's because the boy's trained the birds. They land on the ground around here and Bodie point's them and Squirt ignore's them. Maybe they feel just a bit to safe around the dog's!

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Re: Training birds, homer's vrs ferals

Post by Duckdog » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:47 pm

I know for a FACT that I HAD one that felt a little too comfortable around the dogs just this afternoon!
Penny, the JRT, hit it like a run away freight train and that was that.

Penny is grounded from all pigeon chores until further notice... :(

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Re: Training birds, homer's vrs ferals

Post by Meller » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:47 am

I have some that act just like the ones you have, and I use them accordingly.
Nice post Tailcrackin. :)

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AZ Brittany Guy
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Re: Training birds, homer's vrs ferals

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:08 pm

DonF wrote:Ya buddy. First time it happened I about had a coronary. Then thinking about it I though, man that is great. All of them don't do it and I really should mark the ones that do but I probably won't get around to it. The future is feral for pup's and started dog's not far enough along yet and homer's for the dog's farther along. Amazes me nobody else has had this happen. maybe it's because the boy's trained the birds. They land on the ground around here and Bodie point's them and Squirt ignore's them. Maybe they feel just a bit to safe around the dog's!
I just use homers and I have had it happen, but not a lot. When I let my birds out each day to exercise, feed and water I have my half Britt half Aussie with me. When they land around the lofts, she runs at them and they flush. She has no interest in catching them (I think) but she loves to see them flush. That may inadvertently help me in the training field.

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