Sickle Tail

ROTTnBRITT · Post by **ROTTnBRITT** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:17 pm

My Setter pup had a really nice straight tail when on point up until about 6 or 7 months. I have been noticing lately that his tail is curving over his back more. (9 months old now)

Is there anyway to fix this? Will it become straight again over time or get worse? What factors can cause this?

I was hoping to run him in field trials in the spring, but if he has an ugly tail.......

rinker · Post by **rinker** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:20 pm

Post a photo if possible. What type of trials are you planning on competing in?

PntrRookie · Post by **PntrRookie** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:35 pm

ROTTnBRITT wrote:Is there anyway to fix this?

Not really...them are da genetics...

At 9 months old that tail could be all over the place. Especially if it started good, now a bit sickle, next it could be 10 oclock. The muscles are being developed (almost done) but unless it is touching his back, I would give it time. I bought a pup sight unseen from GA (only a picture of him "stacked") and right off the airplane he had a sickly sickle tail...gave him 6-9 months and sold him as a pet. More than likely it will not get better, but you have youth and a "little" history on your side. That being said how bad is it? Does it get worse the longer he stands? I have seem some bad tails win trials...

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:40 pm

Trials are a performance game, my hound does not have a 12 o clock tail but he seems to get in the winners circle just fine!

ROTTnBRITT · Post by **ROTTnBRITT** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:09 pm

Coverdog

Point at 4 mo old

Point at 7 mo old

Point from today (9 mo.)

Sorry for the large size. Trying to do this on my phone.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:17 pm

Bleach some spots and dock the tail, problem solved.

As stated muscles are developing I wouldn't worry about it, if you go messing with the tail to much you will more then likely create other problems

PntrRookie · Post by **PntrRookie** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:37 pm

Wouldn't worry about it. Your dog is put together well... and especially in the grouse woods, the tail is hidden a lot

I have seen a LOT of dogs win with worse tails than that and I wouldn't think twice about placing that dog - he is a looker! FWIW I wouldn't call that a sickle tail, he is just "pulling it".

ROTTnBRITT · Post by **ROTTnBRITT** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:38 pm

Haha, There's an idea.

I guess that good to hear.
I havent messed with it at all. So hopefully things straighten out

Wildweeds · Post by **Wildweeds** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:05 pm

For starters,that tail is not in the least bit bad,when that dog gets to working and burns off some steam and gets a little energy out of it I'd bet it's straight as and arrow.Second thing is too much emphasis is put on tails,dogs don't use their buttholes to find birds,they use brains and noses.Third thing is watch a National Championship video and look at their tails,80% of them are kinda sorry looking (Shell creek coin comes to mind),lots of 10 oclockers and even some level tailed dogs you'll see.If you want to see an example of a sickle tail look for images of "Go For Broke" or a dog named "Eye Candy".I have a son of HOF Tomoka that has the worst tail I've ever seen,it makes a complete circle like an elkhound.If I'm judging I pay attention to the front end not the back end,I've seen more than one perfect tailed dog that was horrible at birdwork and ground application.All fine and dandy to run the horsepath and maybe find a bird or two and look pretty doing it but it's far better to see a dog use its head to naturally gravitate to real estate that would hold birds,search for them there and find them there and then point them with a less than desireable tail.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:26 pm

D*mn that's a good looking pup! Where did you get it?

Munster · Post by **Munster** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:16 pm

Wildweeds wrote:For starters,that tail is not in the least bit bad,when that dog gets to working and burns off some steam and gets a little energy out of it I'd bet it's straight as and arrow.Second thing is too much emphasis is put on tails,dogs don't use their buttholes to find birds,they use brains and noses.Third thing is watch a National Championship video and look at their tails,80% of them are kinda sorry looking (Shell creek coin comes to mind),lots of 10 oclockers and even some level tailed dogs you'll see.If you want to see an example of a sickle tail look for images of "Go For Broke" or a dog named "Eye Candy".I have a son of HOF Tomoka that has the worst tail I've ever seen,it makes a complete circle like an elkhound.If I'm judging I pay attention to the front end not the back end,I've seen more than one perfect tailed dog that was horrible at birdwork and ground application.All fine and dandy to run the horsepath and maybe find a bird or two and look pretty doing it but it's far better to see a dog use its head to naturally gravitate to real estate that would hold birds,search for them there and find them there and then point them with a less than desireable tail.

I was thinking the same. Tails re over rated. If you dont want the pup cuz of the tail. I ll take em. I bet he is a bird finding machine.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:40 pm

I don't think tails are over rated. They add to the eye appeal. I don't like sickle tails at all. Not do I like tails much below 11 0'clock and as bad as a sickle tail for me is the poker straight tail. I do like a tail that come's out about 10 o'clock and arches up to 12 o'clock. Not a one of them make a dog any better or any worse a hunter.

For me, this is an ideal tail. As a puppy the tail was sickled.

ROTTnBRITT · Post by **ROTTnBRITT** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:15 pm

Haha. Ill keep him.
You read a lot about tails. God to hear I'm not out of the game because of it.
He came from Roger Boser. He is out of Breakstone x Breese (female from Joe Edwards)

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:49 pm

No problem unless your competing. One of my setters runs with a poker straight tail - no movement at all. Some judges marked her down for that. I figure she is just saving energy.

SCT · Post by **SCT** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:24 am

Beautiful pup. I wouldn't worry about it until the check cord comes off and he's broke. It could easily come back to high noon. Even as is he looks good.

ROTTnBRITT · Post by **ROTTnBRITT** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:54 am

Sharon wrote:No problem unless your competing

That is the plan for this pup.

werkin2liv · Post by **werkin2liv** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:55 pm

If you don't like that pup's tail, give him to me. I'll let him hunt with his nose.

ROTTnBRITT · Post by **ROTTnBRITT** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:53 pm

Well I'm glad everyone likes him.

I will have to say he is the best dog I've owned thus far. Perect in the house. Little stubborn in the field but he is still young and we can work that out.

hi-tailyn · Post by **hi-tailyn** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:04 pm

He's a good looking dog. Nothing wrong with him.

There are several vets that specialize in fixing tails. They can bring it up to 12 o'clock, or take out the sickle out of the tail. It is just a matter of cutting the right strings.

The long tail guys do it more than most people know.

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:34 pm

Even if you are competing, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that dogs tail......

markj · Post by **markj** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:42 pm

A guy I sold a pup to emailed me and said "unfortunalty she has a sickle tail" I offered to buy that pup back but have heard no word. Is it such a big deal? In trialing and shows? I watch my dogs all 7 of them and see this at times, usally when they are playing around, not on solid point over a bird. or are folks just internet pros and extra picky? Never had this issue before and I am thinking it isnt an issue at all.

PntrRookie · Post by **PntrRookie** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:22 pm

markj wrote:...Is it such a big deal? In trialing...?

It becomes a big deal when you are judging and taking into consideration the ENTIRE package. More times than not, it does not get that far but...when you are splitting hairs, yes it matters. As does the opposite...a low flat tail. Especially when you consider we trial to "better the breed" and look for breeding "stock". Yes I probably would not breed to a sickle tail (or flat tailed) dog if I had other options. yes it is a big deal.

DSemple · Post by **DSemple** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:01 pm

PntrRookie wrote: FWIW I wouldn't call that a sickle tail, he is just "pulling it".

Ditto

Wildweeds · Post by **Wildweeds** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:23 pm

Straight

Slightly bowed

more bow

Little more sickle

bad sickle

back to straight

RYNO · Post by **RYNO** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:29 pm

I see a difference in my pups tail if shes pointing birds

or pointing bugs in the backyard

mudhunter · Post by **mudhunter** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:11 pm

IF a judge is just looking at tails we could save a lot of effort and just throw a quail in a bush and walk the dog up to it!!

A Good judge will look at the entire effort of the dog.

That said your dog looks very nice and I wouldn't hesitate for a second to run him myself looking like that.

markj · Post by **markj** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:19 pm

a low flat tail.

Was and is the norm for a shorthair. Used to be anyways..... look at all the pretty pics in my old shorthair book.....

If the tail is the most important piece of the puzzle, well I just dont know how to put it lol I prefer teh other end to work best for me..

PntrRookie · Post by **PntrRookie** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:26 pm

markj wrote:If the tail is the most important piece of the puzzle, well I just dont know how to put it lol I prefer teh other end to work best for me..

Agreed, don't think anyone said it was "...the most IMPORTANT piece"

I just like the entire package!

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:34 pm

Yep I want the performance & the looks all in one.Doesn't cost anymore!

But there is certainly nothing wrong with that dog.
Look at my avatar dog when he was a pup he pulled his tail forward,not anymore!

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:30 pm

I have yet to hear tails come up in any conversation at a trial I have attended as far being the difference in someone winning or not winning. Usually race, finishing power and bird finding talked about significantly more than tails. My hound has maybe a 10-11 clock tail and has absolutely zero problem placing in CH stakes. It's a performance competition, not a beauty pageant.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:35 pm

Josh I agree it's a performance trial but no harm in having high style to go with the performance,you can have both.

People say that the tail don't point birds & that is very true but I will ask this question what if we went in the other direction with the tail,suppose you had a dog that points with their tail between their legs or glued to their butt?

Would you own or want that dog & could you win trials with that dog remember it's the tail not the nose.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:56 pm

Little article in The Field this week regarding tails and lumbosacral issues by Pat McInteer. I will post the link but might need to be a subscriber to read.

http://americanfield.villagesoup.com/p/ ... re/1078994

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:01 pm

I've read it!Do you think that is going to change anything? My Dr says I'm to fat!

There was a much larger article about the same subject a mo or so back in the Field by another vet a believe.

Wildweeds · Post by **Wildweeds** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:54 pm

Doc should recognize the orange and white dog I've got posted,pretty sure he's seen her a time or two.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:22 pm

Doc should recognize the orange and white dog I've got posted,pretty sure he's seen her a time or two.

Is that George? Thought we were in the money with him at Nat Chukar SD last spring - got shagged man!!

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:47 pm

Ted I agree that a dog should have some style, obviously a tail between the legs no intensity etc is not something I want in a hound. But a lot of posters seem to insinuate that you will never be competitive, or it will be harder to be competitive with a dog that does not have a 12 oclock tail. Which is untrue. Cause I have seen it happen with my own hound. No one in camp was talking about tails or style in camp after each brace. We were talking about finds, application and race and finishing strong. Tails were never mentioned.

Woody

Same dog

Woodster

Same dog

Regardless of his lack of a 12 o clock tail he is one helluva bird dog.

Crazy thing this is his daughter!

Wildweeds · Post by **Wildweeds** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:42 am

Better birddog IMO than george Doc, Southwind Jetset Drifter or "Drift"

DGFavor wrote:
Doc should recognize the orange and white dog I've got posted,pretty sure he's seen her a time or two.
Is that George? Thought we were in the money with him at Nat Chukar SD last spring - got shagged man!!

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:05 am

Wildweeds wrote:Better birddog IMO than george Doc, Southwind Jetset Drifter or "Drift"
DGFavor wrote:
Doc should recognize the orange and white dog I've got posted,pretty sure he's seen her a time or two.
Is that George? Thought we were in the money with him at Nat Chukar SD last spring - got shagged man!!

This whole time I thought you were Paul!

Wildweeds · Post by **Wildweeds** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:31 pm

Might not be as educated as Paul but I've got some good stories about him,which would really make you wonder about the education.

DGFavor wrote:
DGFavor wrote:
This whole time I thought you were Paul!

Red Delicious · Post by **Red Delicious** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:29 pm

ROTTnBRITT wrote: He came from Roger Boser. He is out of Breakstone x Breese (female from Joe Edwards)

Nice breeding hard to go wrong with Roger and Joe.

Craig O.

ROTTnBRITT · Post by **ROTTnBRITT** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:53 pm

Red Delicious wrote:
ROTTnBRITT wrote: He came from Roger Boser. He is out of Breakstone x Breese (female from Joe Edwards)
Nice breeding hard to go wrong with Roger and Joe.

Craig O.

Yeh. Like I said he is a great dog. Just wondered about his tail.

I see both his sire and dam placed at the York Pointer and Setter Club Trial last month.

mudhunter · Post by **mudhunter** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:35 pm

ROTTnBRITT wrote:
Red Delicious wrote:
ROTTnBRITT wrote: He came from Roger Boser. He is out of Breakstone x Breese (female from Joe Edwards)
Nice breeding hard to go wrong with Roger and Joe.

Craig O.
Yeh. Like I said he is a great dog. Just wondered about his tail.

I see both his sire and dam placed at the York Pointer and Setter Club Trial last month.

Breakstone is an outstanding animal, I have been beaten by him many time! He really did a fabulous job at the Lehigh Valley Trial this fall winning 1st in the Amateur Shooting dog knocking my dog down to second! I have seen the mom as well and she is also a nice animal. I am sure your puppy will do and I hope you bring it around some local horse back trials!

ROTTnBRITT · Post by **ROTTnBRITT** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:30 pm

Breakstone is an outstanding animal, I have been beaten by him many time! He really did a fabulous job at the Lehigh Valley Trial this fall winning 1st in the Amateur Shooting dog knocking my dog down to second! I have seen the mom as well and she is also a nice animal. I am sure your puppy will do and I hope you bring it around some local horse back trials!

I have thought about taking him down to Docs for the spring trial and running him in the puppy stakes. He hasnt been around horses since he left Docs in April. Not sure how that would go and I don't want to get anyone hurt. There are a few horse barns around. I should go and see if they will let me come out with my dog.
I had a fun time a Docs when I picked him up. But I can't afford to play the games with horses involved at this point in my life.
I started my 5 yr old daughter with horseback lessons this summer. She loves it. So maybe in the future well will have a horse or two

bigoak · Post by **bigoak** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:54 pm

That's a sharp looking red setter,whats the breeding on it?......vern