NSTRA Question

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S&J gsp
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NSTRA Question

Post by S&J gsp » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:30 am

If you call a safety and then the bird clears and you shoot dose the reterive still count.

Senerio
If I flush the bird toward the judge and I call safety or the judge calls safety do I still get full reterive points if I shoot

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kninebirddog
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Re: NSTRA Question

Post by kninebirddog » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:40 am

Generally if you see the bird is going to head in a clear area quickly ask your judge if you can shoot it...depending on the judge most will allow it as long as it is safe to do so, mostly because birds should be cleared from the field if at all possible.
When I have a handler that when a bird becomes clear for a shot after a safety was called and they haven't moved and the dog retrieves I will score the retrieve...if they have NOT moved and the dog goes the retrieve since a legitimate safety was called I honor the safety

Edited to correct the last statement Handler can not move after a shot or trying for a retrieve after the dog has broke.

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S&J gsp
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Re: NSTRA Question

Post by S&J gsp » Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:34 am

That's what I was looking for

digger
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Re: NSTRA Question

Post by digger » Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:17 pm

NSTRA trial rules:

2.05 "If in the opinion of the judge, shot is deliberately fired after he calls safety, retrieve is not scored."

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S&J gsp
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Re: NSTRA Question

Post by S&J gsp » Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:32 pm

I was looking for the gray rule I knew the black and white rule. I've had three judges tell me two different things. Two asked why I didn't shoot after the bird cleared so next trial the judge called a safety and after the bird cleared I shot and he took the whole bird from me. So now if a safety is called the bird will be safe with me

rinker
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Re: NSTRA Question

Post by rinker » Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:38 pm

I am not a NSTRA trialer but I have friends who are. I think this situation caused a controversy at a local NSTRA trial a few years ago. The bird flew towards the judge and the handler called a safety. The bird then circled and flew right out in the open, the handler emptied a semi auto shotgun at the bird and never touched a feather. The bird flew over the fence out of bounds. The handler then wanted credit for the safety.

edb
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Re: NSTRA Question

Post by edb » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:12 pm

Judge can ask for the bird to be taken out. Still safety score. You should not take it out without being told when safety is called.

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kninebirddog
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Re: NSTRA Question

Post by kninebirddog » Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:28 pm

Rinker...Thing is one always should ASK the judge and if the bird clears and you shoot ... and Yep you are committed for the retrieve specially if you have not moved if you shoot. National trials when you are near a fence they state you may call a safety on the fence BUT if you shoot you are committed for the retrieve..Now if the bird is clear on the first shot then serves over the fence you can call a safety but if the bird is flying towards the fence and you shoot you made the shot.
I have asked judges if I can go ahead and shoot and I have had judges ask me to go a head and get the bird out IF I can as All birds should be taken out If possible as to not allow the field to get a bird build up.

Bottom line do not just assume you may shoot at a bird once a safety has been called unless OK'd by the judge or instructed by the judge

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Re: NSTRA Question

Post by Wildweeds » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:06 am

Call the safetey with me and it's all over,I did the nasty over 10 years ago,things must have changed,You call a saftey or I call a saftey and the bird is done for the brace .Plenty of folks out there that know the rules,seen it more than once a guy get a 95 on a retrieve and then have 5 safteies,all you got to do is flush the bird right at the judge and horse and yell saftey! I actually was shot at a nasty event even though there was "Safety" yelled.It's not the reason I don't partake but it does contribute to the fact.

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DonF
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Re: NSTRA Question

Post by DonF » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:13 am

Wildweeds wrote:Call the safetey with me and it's all over,I did the nasty over 10 years ago,things must have changed,You call a saftey or I call a saftey and the bird is done for the brace .Plenty of folks out there that know the rules,seen it more than once a guy get a 95 on a retrieve and then have 5 safteies,all you got to do is flush the bird right at the judge and horse and yell saftey! I actually was shot at a nasty event even though there was "Safety" yelled.It's not the reason I don't partake but it does contribute to the fact.
+1

I judged a lot of NSTRA in the past and once either the handler/gunner called safety or I called safety, it was over! I did send several handler's to either get a gunner or leave the field. Don't fool around with it, a win is not worth a nasty. I have seen a guy get shot that required medical attention. I've seen to many gallery's get splattered with shot, I have had a lot of guy's complain of my own safety rules I imposed myself, every club backed me up too. There's a reason they call it safety!

You know, consider your question. If you call a safety and the bird clears, can you still shoot the bird? That is the thought of someone that might be overly competitive. Doesn't mean a lot more than you might be willing to shoot if an opertunity exist's even though the safety has been called. really fun game but just a game, keep it safe!

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S&J gsp
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Re: NSTRA Question

Post by S&J gsp » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:51 am

I asked the question because I had three different judges tell me two different things. Two are national judges and judge a lot of national events they both said once the bird clears shot it so next trial I'm in a safety is called the brid clears so I shot knocked the bird down dog retervies the judge told me it was a nice find but you get a 0 because you shot after a safety was called. Until I was told once the bird clears take the shot I never shot because of the rule that states if a safety is called and you shot you get no reterive points. So from that trail on once a safety is called that bird gets a pass in my book. I'm not a person to go and put myself in a safety every bird before I go to flush a bird I look at the field to see where the judge is and see where my brace mate is and try to put the bird away from all of them. You have 360 degrees to flush a bird no reason to flush towards anyone or the parking area.

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Re: NSTRA Question

Post by nhachman » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:08 pm

To your last point about being smart about how you approach the dog and bird and where you flush, that is spot on and every trialer should think about this. Typically when your dog goes on point you have plenty of time to assess the situation and be aware of your surroundings. Find your judge, the other judge/handler/dog, gallery, and any other safety hazards BEFORE walking up to flush. This is in the best interest of the safety of you and those around you, and can also help your success of having a nice clear shot on the bird so that you don't get into a safety calling situation. (Newbie tip: You should also be looking for things that could distract your dog during the retrieve like water buckets on a hot day, marked birds, etc, and flush away from those also if you can do so safely).

Now if I'm judging you, and a safety is called, that goes onto the card as an S, even if the bird clears for a shot and you don't take it. If the bird does clear and you shoot on your own, the retrieve is scored. If the bird does clear for the shot, and I ask you to take the bird out and you miss, and the dog has no opportunity to retrieve, you still get an S. If the bird is shot and you have not moved from your flushing location, and the dog has the opportunity to retrieve, I will score the retrieve. If the bird sets down reasonably close by, I will ask the handler to take the bird out, otherwise the area is marked as a two bird area for the brace.

jasonw99
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Re: NSTRA Question

Post by jasonw99 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:31 am

never shoot a bird you call safety on. if you miss you will get a zero on retrieve. don't chance it. call a safety and be done.

it's kind of like golf. if someone tells you a putt is good and you putt it and miss you lost a stroke. just pick it up and walk away

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Re: NSTRA Question

Post by ncpointers » Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:09 pm

If safety is called, an A goes on the card no matter if you are given permission to take the bird out. IF you shoot without permission after safety is called, the retrieve is not scored per 2.05 as digger stated. If you are given permission to take the bird out, you still must get an A and you can go pick the bird up yourself if you wish. The retrieve is over as soon as you call safety. The shooting of the bird after safety is to get the scored on bird off the field and NOT for a score no matter what.

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