field trial question

Post Reply
BigJake
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: MN

field trial question

Post by BigJake » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:14 pm

I just put my deposit in for a red setter pup, due to come home the first of April. My question is, I have never done any type of field trial, but it is something that intrigues me. I want to do trials that are fun, that can be done with your normal hunting dog, I don't want a dog just for trials. I mainly chase grouse, and my dog will be fdsb registered. Any information will be appreciated.

User avatar
Red Delicious
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:14 pm
Location: Eastern Washington

Re: field trial question

Post by Red Delicious » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:50 pm

Being a FDSB only registered Irish Red Setter you have a few options. If you have the dog spayed or neutered (depending on the sex of the pup) you can then run it in AKC trials. I've been told that even if you win you can't get the award and it won't show on any registration papers. If you want to leave it intact you can run it in AFTCA, NSTRA and NAVHDA to mention a few.

I would bet if you hunt Grouse there will be some Grouse trials in your area maybe put on by AFTCA.

I run AFTCA because that’s what I enjoy, find one you enjoy and you’ll have a lot of fun when it isn’t hunting season.

Have fun!

Craig O.

User avatar
Red Delicious
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:14 pm
Location: Eastern Washington

Re: field trial question

Post by Red Delicious » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:51 pm

Who did you get the pup from?

Craig O.

BigJake
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: MN

Re: field trial question

Post by BigJake » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:59 pm

I am getting the pup from Berg Bros. I am already excited, going to be a long 4 months.

User avatar
cmc274
Rank: Champion
Posts: 323
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:14 pm
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina

Re: field trial question

Post by cmc274 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:27 am

Sounds like cover dog trials may be a good fit. I'd figure out how to contact these fellas and your breeder should certainly be able to help you.

http://mngda.blogspot.com/

Looks ilke they typically have some spring trials, which you should go check out.
http://mngda.blogspot.com/search?update ... -results=7

User avatar
PntrRookie
GDF Junkie
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: SE Wisconsin

Re: field trial question

Post by PntrRookie » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:34 am

BigJake...there is a very nice group of cover dog trialers in MN and WI that you would probably really enjoy. Those same guys run walking trials on the wild bird population of sharptail grouse on the WI/MN border (near Minong, WI). Let me know if you want some contact info and I would be happy to PM you. They run Amateur (AFTCA) and open stakes...same guys...nice trials!

shags
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2717
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:57 pm

Re: field trial question

Post by shags » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:40 am

Unless your dog is AKC registered, you cannot run it in AKC trials. But you can get a PAL number and run it in hunt tests. Info on PAL and hunt tests is on the AKC website.

There are lots of other formats which you might enjoy - coverdog (in the woods for grouse dogs); walking trials ( US Complete and NBHA come to mind); horseback; NSTRA; UFTCA.

Check out the Red Setter website http://www.nrsftc.com If you contact Al or Deb Fazenbaker they can direct you, great people.

Good luck with your pup :)

User avatar
AZ Brittany Guy
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1417
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:00 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: field trial question

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:39 am

Take a look at this site. You may enjoy them and they are active in MN and a FDSB affiliate. No need to fix your dog.

http://uscomplete.org/

User avatar
PntrRookie
GDF Junkie
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: SE Wisconsin

Re: field trial question

Post by PntrRookie » Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:49 am

AZ Brittany Guy wrote:Take a look at this site. You may enjoy them and they are active in MN and a FDSB affiliate. No need to fix your dog. uscomplete.org
Unfortuantely the US Complete, ABHA nor NBHA are really "active" in MN. The trials run n MN and northern WI are run directly under the AFTCA or American Field. There are two clubs in southern/southeastern WI (Green Bay and the http://www.12oclockftc.com/) that run CHs and weekend trials under the NBHA. http://www.nbhadog.org/

Either way there are PLENTY of American Field trial opportunities up here! NO where else in the country can one state hold a national CH trial on four different wild bird populations - other than Wisconsin - grouse, woodcock, sharptail grouse and prairie chickens...if there is, I am not aware of it.

User avatar
DonF
GDF Junkie
Posts: 4020
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:09 pm
Location: Antelope, Ore

Re: field trial question

Post by DonF » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:02 am

I wish we had a lot more walking trial,s out here. One that Craig put's on in wash twice a year and the Britt Club of Oregon does one a year. Seem's the Shorthair Club might also. I have grown really fond of the AFTCA walking trials. Don't run a dog, got bad knees. I've run a lot of NSTRA years ago. And have run a bunch of AKC in the past. My favorite is the AFTCA walking trials. Dog needs to be steady to shot, thats it. I have been lucky to judge these trials last two years with an older experienced judge. Judging in AF is a lot more positive than AKC was. If on the other hand you prefer shoot to kill trials's, NSTRA was a lot of fun.

User avatar
AZ Brittany Guy
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1417
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:00 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: field trial question

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:44 am

DonF wrote:I wish we had a lot more walking trial,s out here. One that Craig put's on in wash twice a year and the Britt Club of Oregon does one a year. Seem's the Shorthair Club might also. I have grown really fond of the AFTCA walking trials. Don't run a dog, got bad knees. I've run a lot of NSTRA years ago. And have run a bunch of AKC in the past. My favorite is the AFTCA walking trials. Dog needs to be steady to shot, thats it. I have been lucky to judge these trials last two years with an older experienced judge. Judging in AF is a lot more positive than AKC was. If on the other hand you prefer shoot to kill trials's, NSTRA was a lot of fun.
In general walking trials are few and far between out here in the west. I run AKC / AF horse trials as a walker and I have placed and won but it is clear that horseback handlers would prefer to run with other horseback handlers. Because of this, I stay away from Open Stakes as the guys who make a living on this game don't want to see a walker braced with them. It would be great to see US Complete or NBHA come to the southwest.

User avatar
Red Delicious
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:14 pm
Location: Eastern Washington

Re: field trial question

Post by Red Delicious » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:54 am

BigJake wrote:I am getting the pup from Berg Bros. I am already excited, going to be a long 4 months.
Should be a good one. They have a good reputation as far as I know.

I got my first Red from Rodger Berg (no relation to the Berg Bros.) out of St. Cloud MN.

Have fun.

Craig O.

BigJake
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: MN

Re: field trial question

Post by BigJake » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:16 am

Craig O
The stud dog is actually from Roger Berg, it is from come back setters. I feel it should be the type of dog that I could have some fun in some sort of trial venue. I mainly hunt grouse, but do the occasional pheasant hunt, I have been looking at some sort of trials just to gain more hunting exposure for the pup. This will be my first red setter, so I am anxious to see how she works, I currently have a ryman type setter, I have a feeling there will be a night and day difference between the two. The picture I have attached is of the female that is having the lit.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

rinker
Rank: 4X Champion
Posts: 666
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:01 am

Re: field trial question

Post by rinker » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:53 am

I would recommend American Field walking and cover dog trials, unless you are a horse back guy. In my opinion the amount of fun you get out of these events is directly related to your attitude. If you have a win at all cost kind of attitude, any thing less than first is a loss kind of attitude, the trials will probably be more stressfull than fun. If you go there to run your dog and do your best and see some other good dogs and meet some great like minded people then you should have a great time.

User avatar
Red Delicious
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:14 pm
Location: Eastern Washington

Re: field trial question

Post by Red Delicious » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:07 pm

Nice looking dog. She should throw some good pups.

My Bree had a litter about 8 weeks ago. I'm keeping one and the rest will be going to their new homes soon. Three are going on Saturday and the other two soon after that. The last one is going to a home with two young boys as a Christmas present. Nothing like kids and their dog!

Craig O.

BigJake
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: MN

Re: field trial question

Post by BigJake » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:28 pm

rinker
Not looking for anything to do with horse trials, I basically just want to have fun, and more or less to use as a training extension for the pup. I am not looking to get serious with the trials, just to meet other people who share a similar interest with there dogs and have some fun:) I couldn't afford what the full time trial folks do and really don't care to be that serious about it.


Craig
How long have you had red setters, and how have they worked out for you. I had a very long list for my next dog, I looked at everything from llewellins, elhews, field English setters, gordons, Vizslas, and even Springer spaniels. Scott Berg wrote me about this red setter and after talking to him I feel I made a good choice on the red setter, although I do have plans on getting at least one more pup from the above list. It doesn't help that I work at a kennel and get to see a lot of different breeds and I like them all:)

User avatar
S&J gsp
Rank: Master Hunter
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:22 am
Location: Missouri

Re: field trial question

Post by S&J gsp » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:00 pm

My suggestion would be to go watch as many different trials as you can. I chose NSTRA because it fit what I have for dogs point solid, back, and reterive your scored against all the other dogs in 5 different things.

User avatar
Red Delicious
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:14 pm
Location: Eastern Washington

Re: field trial question

Post by Red Delicious » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:40 pm

BigJake wrote:Craig
How long have you had red setters, and how have they worked out for you. I had a very long list for my next dog, I looked at everything from llewellins, elhews, field English setters, gordons, Vizslas, and even Springer spaniels. Scott Berg wrote me about this red setter and after talking to him I feel I made a good choice on the red setter, although I do have plans on getting at least one more pup from the above list. It doesn't help that I work at a kennel and get to see a lot of different breeds and I like them all:)
I got my first one in 1970 at that time they were still registered with AKC, I lost him in 76 to pancreatitis. It was several years (early 80’s) before I was in a position to have another dog and purchased a pup from dual champions out of New York State. Even though they were advertised as hunting dogs he was beautiful and had no interest in birds. That was around the time the internet came about and I discovered the NRSFTC (National Red Setter Field Trial Club). Looking at pictures on their site I realized those dogs were what my first Red was. I bought one from the Iron Fire Kennel and have had them since the mid to late 80’s. I don’t do a lot of breeding, a litter every three or four years. I usually have a litter when I or enough of my friends want a pup.

With a last name like O’Brine owning other breeds was hard to justify.

I hunt Chukar and Pheasants mostly and plan on getting into Grouse next year (I retire in February). I also do some trialing in AFTCA walking and horseback events.

I find them to be very affectionate dogs who do well with a soft hand. It’s unusual to be watching TV without one in my lap.

Craig O.

Neil
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3187
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:46 pm
Location: Central Arkansas

Re: field trial question

Post by Neil » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:38 pm

Red Delicious wrote:Being a FDSB only registered Irish Red Setter you have a few options. If you have the dog spayed or neutered (depending on the sex of the pup) you can then run it in AKC trials. I've been told that even if you win you can't get the award and it won't show on any registration papers. If you want to leave it intact you can run it in AFTCA, NSTRA and NAVHDA to mention a few.

I would bet if you hunt Grouse there will be some Grouse trials in your area maybe put on by AFTCA.

I run AFTCA because that’s what I enjoy, find one you enjoy and you’ll have a lot of fun when it isn’t hunting season.

Have fun!

Craig O.
The first I have heard about neutering/spaying for AKC registration or to enter trials, please share your source.

User avatar
Elkhunter
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1058
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:42 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: field trial question

Post by Elkhunter » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:23 pm

Hunting dog and trial dog are one in the same for me!

User avatar
Red Delicious
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:14 pm
Location: Eastern Washington

Re: field trial question

Post by Red Delicious » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:55 pm

Neil wrote:
Red Delicious wrote:Being a FDSB only registered Irish Red Setter you have a few options. If you have the dog spayed or neutered (depending on the sex of the pup) you can then run it in AKC trials. I've been told that even if you win you can't get the award and it won't show on any registration papers. If you want to leave it intact you can run it in AFTCA, NSTRA and NAVHDA to mention a few.

I would bet if you hunt Grouse there will be some Grouse trials in your area maybe put on by AFTCA.

I run AFTCA because that’s what I enjoy, find one you enjoy and you’ll have a lot of fun when it isn’t hunting season.

Have fun!

Craig O.
The first I have heard about neutering/spaying for AKC registration or to enter trials, please share your source.
Can't give you the name, it's been a few years and I have lost touch with that side of the issue. I do believe it is unique to the Irish Setter/Red Setter conundrum. What I can tell you is some of the ISCA people out this way who seemed to be upstanding people and sympathetic toward reciprocity provided me with the information. I took them at their word and went another direction.

Craig O.

shags
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2717
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:57 pm

Re: field trial question

Post by shags » Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:40 pm

http://images.akc.org/pdf/ADPAL1.pdf

Because of the reciprocity issues, you may have to fudge some of the answers on the application. Then there is the spay/neuter requirement to consider.

Here's the word on registration and trials

http://classic.akc.org/events/field_tri ... breeds.cfm

User avatar
Red Delicious
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:14 pm
Location: Eastern Washington

Re: field trial question

Post by Red Delicious » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:08 pm

shags wrote:http://images.akc.org/pdf/ADPAL1.pdf

Because of the reciprocity issues, you may have to fudge some of the answers on the application. Then there is the spay/neuter requirement to consider.

Here's the word on registration and trials

http://classic.akc.org/events/field_tri ... breeds.cfm
My guess is the information came for there.

•Dogs of these breeds recorded with the Purebred Alternative Listing Program/Indefinite Listing Privilege (PAL/ILP) are not eligible to participate.
•Dogs of these breeds with Conditional registration are not eligible to participate.
•Spayed and neutered dogs are eligible to participate.

Being interpreted as if you got a PAL and spayed or neutered you could then participate.

Thanks Shags

Craig O.

edb
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:33 am
Location: central iowa

Re: field trial question

Post by edb » Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:16 pm

I had a red from Scott a couple years ago that was same breeding as that female. Great dog that we lost in a freak accident at a young age. He had all the tools. I currently have a red out of Kansas from Don Beauchamp that I like a lot also. Cant go wrong with a red they make good companions for field and home.

shags
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2717
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:57 pm

Re: field trial question

Post by shags » Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:25 pm

Craig,

Dogs need to be spayed/neutered in order to get a PAL.
PAL dogs are not allowed to participate in trials; they can participate in hunt tests.

Edited to add...spayed/neutered dogs can compete in trials and tests.

At one time on the AKC there was a section that did include PAL dogs for trials, but that has been removed or corrected. Maybe that's where your friends got their info. When i saw it I got ready to PAL my rescue so I could run her, but a call to AKC put the kabosh on that :?

User avatar
Red Delicious
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:14 pm
Location: Eastern Washington

Re: field trial question

Post by Red Delicious » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:02 pm

shags wrote:Craig,

Dogs need to be spayed/neutered in order to get a PAL.
PAL dogs are not allowed to participate in trials; they can participate in hunt tests.

Edited to add...spayed/neutered dogs can compete in trials and tests.

At one time on the AKC there was a section that did include PAL dogs for trials, but that has been removed or corrected. Maybe that's where your friends got their info. When i saw it I got ready to PAL my rescue so I could run her, but a call to AKC put the kabosh on that :?
Thanks for clearing that up. At some time I remember reaching the point of if they don't want me to play I'll go find someone that does. I've been enjoying the AFTCA game and hunting comes first trialing is a a bonus.

Craig O.
Last edited by Red Delicious on Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

smoothbean
Rank: Champion
Posts: 304
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:08 pm
Location: W Central Illinois

Re: field trial question

Post by smoothbean » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:21 pm

I would recommend UFTA ( http://www.ufta-online.com/ ).
This was my intro to field trials. Just being a hunter myself and due to a relocation I was needing to get my bird dog fix some how. There is no bias on dog breed and style. All you need is a bird dog and a gun.
The UFTA is in with the UKC as well. If you want to get your dog registered UKC if you earn a Championship title it will show on your dogs papers.
If you need any more information about the UFTA PM me and I will help you out. I can help you find a trial to go watch and meet some of the guys.

BigJake
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: MN

Re: field trial question

Post by BigJake » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:52 pm

Smoothbean
Can you dual register a dog with the fdsb and the UKC?

smoothbean
Rank: Champion
Posts: 304
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:08 pm
Location: W Central Illinois

Re: field trial question

Post by smoothbean » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:42 pm

Sorry for the delayed response BigJake. I am pretty sure the UKC will recognize the FDSB and you can dual register with them. I tried to find it on their website but must have missed it. I did send my contact at the UKC an email and am waiting to hear back from him.

smoothbean
Rank: Champion
Posts: 304
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:08 pm
Location: W Central Illinois

Re: field trial question

Post by smoothbean » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:10 am

I got it confirmed. You can dual register with the UKC.

We have a member in Southern IL. that has some red setters.

Hope to meet you at one of our trials sometime.

BigJake
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: MN

Re: field trial question

Post by BigJake » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:23 am

Thanks smoothbean

User avatar
birddog1968
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3043
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:40 pm
Location: Wherever I may roam

Post by birddog1968 » Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:30 pm

I want to say something about akc requiring fixed red setters......but what's the point I guess.....lol

RayGubernat
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3308
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:47 am
Location: Central DE

Re:

Post by RayGubernat » Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:58 pm

birddog1968 wrote:I want to say something about akc requiring fixed red setters......but what's the point I guess.....lol
It is NOT the AKC that is driving this. It is the breed club, the ISCA.

There ARE Irish setters out there that can be registered both AKC and FDSB, but most FDSB registerable Irish Setters are not able to be AKC registered. The ISCA makes noise about reciprocity, but it is a non- starter and has been that way for decades. Not likely to change.

Quite honestly, if you are interested in cover dog trials and hunting, there is no burning reason why you would want to register AKC anyway. I would get an FDSB red setter and not look back.

FWIW, I have seen a few absolutely awesome dual registered(FDSB & AKC) Irish setters over the years, but the vast majority of AKC Irish setters(show type) that I have seen, just do not do it for me in the performance department.

RayG

User avatar
ACooper
GDF Premier Member!
Posts: 3397
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:37 pm
Location: Sometimes I'm in Oklahoma

field trial question

Post by ACooper » Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:02 am

.

Post Reply