GSP gone cranky!

[halt3rtop]

hey guys. my first post went well, and he performed well on our pheasant hunt. i didn't take him out all that often for pheasant this year, although i was a permit holder, finances were tight and i could only go when i could make it. so, i ended up duckin' the dog often, and being his first season for ducks,...he did thoroughly well. if it wasn't for him and his nose, we wouldn't have found any of our wounded birds that ended up landing in the back 9. he is definately a search and destroy machine!
he just turned 2 years old december 18th. treated him to a brekky of well cooked duck hearts with a bit of oil mixed into his kibble (if his meat isn't well cooked, he literally picks the pieces out and leaves them on the floor until you re-cook them,...what a donkey!) and he's such a loving, caring boy. machine in the field, lazy in the house. when i aquired my pup from the breeder (some of you more than likely know him in ontario), i wanted a dog in which i could have as both a "pet", a hunting tool and of course a family member. i lucked out with bullet. he's got the good life, he's got his crate which is massive here inside the house, and hasn't been kenneled outdoors. fleece blankets line the bottom for comfort, but he keeps kneading into them before bed to make his nest, so they're a bit ratty. no biggie. but, when i'm home, he's allowed to be out in the house, and when i let him outside, he's usually unattended personally but does have a shock collar on in case he wants to wander (he has snuck away without the collar on to the neighbours for a visit.) and now that the -30c temps have hit, and a metric ton of snow, he thoroughly enjoys laying on his memory foam mattress in front of the fire, or, like i've let him as a pup and now, laying on the one side of the couch. as always, the side closest to the fire. some nights i end up going to bed early, and the boyfriend tells him "kennel" and off the couch he goes and to his crate without issue. well, lately he's been getting a bit "cranky" lets say. he acts like he's an old man, the dog that is, ever so slooooowly crawling off of the couch, and almost acting like he's crippled, tiptoeing to his crate. sometimes you need to gently give him a bit of pursuasion, and put your hand under his front legs,...well, this is where the cranky comes in. he looks at you like "nuh-unh. i ain't movin...." as you put your hands under him to give him a bit of a nudge, because your first "kennel" command was either totally ignored, or he honestly didn't hear you, then he lets out a small snarl like "f-off!!! it's warm here, and i'm comfy!!!" i get firm with him and give him the "look" and usually say "don't you dare snarl at me....KENNEL!" so i get firmer, point and then he gets his butt into gear. like most dogs you guys own, my dog isn't fixed. i've gotten mixed reactions on fixing a hunting dog. i'm just wondering if i should continue to let him onto this section of couch, or if i should keep him off and on his mat from here on out? usually bullet is a laid back dog, always playing with other in tact dogs, but i'm just worried his snarly couch moments may turn into a, how should i put it, almost like a mother-teen rebellion. anyone else had issues like this???

[ultracarry]

You hit the age... Mine never snarled but what would your parents do if you talked back?

[jwnissen]

It must be the terrible 2's!! My shorthair is 2 and she is doing the same thing and even doing things she has never done before, like counter surf. Good to know its not just my dog. I'm assuming they grow out of this stage??

[ultracarry]

I'm a single guy... My dog has run of the house. If she surfs and eats something it's my fault.... The energy they grow out of... The attitude you need to correct.

[tasi devil]

he may well be a very good hunting dog
you are no longer above him in the pecking order at home
it won't be long before he will become disobedient in the field

my dogs get some of the 'privileges' you mentioned ....... infrequently.
they are kennelled outside, coming in occasionally, at home & in the field I expect compliance without a discussion
mind you doesn't always happen, they are not robots, they are all smoochers & get a lot of hands on & individual attention on 'down time'

my opinion is;
no more fluffy mats in the crate, 5-6 scrunched up newspapers instead
no more brekky, one decent meal per day
no more cooked meat, if he won't eat, tough, goes without till the next day. provide plenty of water
no more on the couch & certainly not in front of you in relation to the fire
a tie down chain attached to the skirting board prevents the wanders, put his fluffy mat there.
surpervise outside or electronically fence your yard an e-collar is too late if the dogs gone

I have 3 dogs inside at present mostly behaving themselves. (except for one). a 35kilo 2y/o neutered Mallinois, a 19kilo 2+y/o GSP entire bitch (just finished her season), a 22kilo 4+y/o entire GSP dog, one is now on a chain attached to the skirting board until she relearns the lesson
they will be fed shortly (10pm, dry food & leftover Spaghetti bolognaise) in their kennels, it's cold & wet outside they have very nice kennels/boxes.
there will be no discussion on going out
they are allowed the run of a 1/2 acre suburban block with 6' fences

basically you need to re-establish the pack order
good luck

..................tasi

[bobman]

I'd bring him to the vet and have him run a blood panel for Lymes and other possible tick born stuff , he may be in pain the way you describe his movement. A two year old dog should not move like that unless he's been hunted hard that day or the day before.

Rule that out first, its not something you want to allow progress.

[markj]

Simply put, he is challengeing your authoritah a simple whack on his nose and a firm crate now may get it done. Sometimes you need to remind pup who is boss. I am not saying break off a piece of his nose, just a simple tap and firm command.

What is really going on is he says I dont want to be locked up all night, let me stay on this here couch but if you relent he will continue this in every command so best nip it now, then re evaluate where he sleeps now that he is older.

My inside dog is wearing a sweater at the moment her crate has no door now and has a large pillow bed and a couple toys. Sometimes she will go in and stay there for hours, night time she gets my recliner or lays by my bed side. But she has shown she can be trusted out, not all of them are so. My male pup had to go outside with the other boys, he wasnt happy inside, he wants to run loose in the 4 acres field with the e fence on.

For them that are out doors, I have wooden dog boxes I built, each has a "hot lamp" for chickens in and turned on, the door has to stay open or it gets too hot in there for them. 1 lamp per dog box each box holds 2 dogs altho I have found all 5 in one box which made it too crowded. Boxes are in the barn out of the wind. I feed them some raw meat also when it is this cold out added to the bagged food.

[KwikIrish]

I'd bring him to the vet and have him run a blood panel for Lymes and other possible tick born stuff , he may be in pain the way you describe his movement. A two year old dog should not move like that unless he's been hunted hard that day or the day before.

Rule that out first, its not something you want to allow progress.

I believe this dog is posturing, not sore. We have seen similar scenarios.
No more couch time... He needs to know you are boss, nip it in the butt ASAP. I would cease coddling until the dog adjusts his additude.

[halt3rtop]

lol. he's always been on his flea/tick meds during the on season. he does this "cripple walk of shame" even on the stairs cuz he knows he's not allowed up there. he enjoys watching where i am...almost all the time!!!
in terms of the couch, it's only been when i'm home, and he's out of his crate. he's never allowed to stay out of the crate at night, although the boyfriend once forgot to lock the door a few weeks ago. i'm sure he enjoyed himself thoroughly on the couch that night, and enjoyed pestering my 2 cats (he gets along with them and loves to nose and poke at them) and the only way i knew he was out was waking up to a wet nose schmeared across my leg when i was asleep upstairs in the bed. lol. i haven't allowed him on the couch recently, and although tempting to let him up, due to those big giant googly puppy eyes, i ignore it and firmly tell him to go lay down on his mat. he's usually good at listening to commands, and hardly disobeys. tasi, each to their own, but man, your pups are under strict rule!! lol. i am still contemplating on trying to put up an actual outdoor kennel, as my boyfriend used to have a golden retriever and we have 2 dog houses. his retriever was on an electric fence, for bullet he'd need to be enclosed. just need to find some chainlink fencing that's tall enough i spoze. another issue i've had is where i live, which is upper central ontario, when blackfly season hits, they are on him like white on rice. he comes in looking like he's got some disease after they've feasted on his furless "bits", and i have yet to find a pet healthy product i can spray on him to prevent these buggers from sucking him dry of blood.
all in all, i'm usually firm in what i tell him and say. some people look at me and think i'm mean, but really, i'm just being firm in my commands, and 99% of the time he knows whos boss. it' just the couch issue i had with him gettin lippy with me. i appreciate all the information you guys have given me. living with a GSP is a learning curve in itself right off the hop, and everyday we learn something new about them and ourselves.

[rollick]

"I'd bring him to the vet and have him run a blood panel for Lymes and other possible tick born stuff , he may be in pain the way you describe his movement. A two year old dog should not move like that unless he's been hunted hard that day or the day before. Rule that out first, its not something you want to allow progress."
I sure would listen very carefully to this smart gentleman. First, rule out any medical condition that could be causing this odd behavior. Lyme disease manifests itself in a multitude of different ways in dogs, horses, and humans. I know from personal experience: been there, done that with all three. And I have always been glad that I gave the benefit of the doubt before going all "ALPHA" on a dog that could very well be in pain.

[cjhills]

In the dog world discipline is swift,harsh and over. he is likely trying to take control. Probably wouldn't hurt to let him on the couch with you if he understands that you control the higher ground and allow him to be up there. make sure you get the most desirable spot.
If he growls, even once descend on him like the rath of god. If you are physically capable of this, holding him down until he submits works very well on some dogs. Don't try that unless you are sure you will win. If you take control now it will be over and all will be good........Cj

[Sharon]

Hilarious post. The more privileges they get , the more they expect. Most dogs at some point will take a stand ( like a teen), and see what you are going to do about it. Mine would not get a "gentle " nudge into the crate. I personally wouldn't see the vet for that , or go crazy with- holding whatever , but certainly your choice. MY JRT knows when I say crate he's going, but he still slowly crawls in. Posturing - telling me how he feels about it.

Which breeder? I'm from ON.

[Sharon]

It must be the terrible 2's!! My shorthair is 2 and she is doing the same thing and even doing things she has never done before, like counter surf. Good to know its not just my dog. I'm assuming they grow out of this stage??

They don't " grow out of it" without proper correction.

[NLsetter]

I'd bring him to the vet and have him run a blood panel for Lymes and other possible tick born stuff , he may be in pain the way you describe his movement. A two year old dog should not move like that unless he's been hunted hard that day or the day before.

Rule that out first, its not something you want to allow progress.

I believe this dog is posturing, not sore. We have seen similar scenarios.
No more couch time... He needs to know you are boss, nip it in the butt ASAP. I would cease coddling until the dog adjusts his additude.

X2

My dogs are house dogs but they know their space and my space. Dog should not be on couch or bed unless invited. You have yet to establish who #1 is in the human/dog relationship.
.

[Del Lolo]

Sounds as though the dog has trained the owner pretty well :roll:

[mountaindogs]

A dog with stiff legs, an upright posture, with slow and/or stiff movements forward is telling you that he is very confident. This is an active aggressive signal from a confident dog that is willing to assert himself. He is not necessarily being aggressive, but things could go that way if he is challenged. - See more at: http://www.thebalancedcanine.com/canine ... 4cNH9.dpuf

found in this article:
http://www.thebalancedcanine.com/canine-language/

[benelli]

We noticed our GSP (coming up on 2 years old) getting crabby at getting off his big fluffly bed in the living room to kennel up in the laundry room. He never growled or snapped or anything (good for him he didn't - I would have pounced him), but he definitely looked pissed when we'd get him up, and he'd tuck his tail and drag himself so slowly to his kennel. Sometimes I'd have to tug his collar and nudge him along.

Then we got a new washing machine.

Now when we say, "Scout, it's time to go to bed," he wakes up, gets up off his big comfy bed in the living room, and walks quietly and contentedly, with his tail wagging, to his bed in the laundry room, without a dirty look or slow movement. Apparently he didn't like our almost-20-year-old washing machine with its squeaks and rattles and demolition-derby-smell (the belt was always slipping and getting hot). The new one is quieter and less smelly, so he's happier now.

[ultracarry]

^ that's funny!

I tell mine to go to bed and she just looks at me...10-20 min later she jumps on he bed to go to sleep . Figured she is a woman and doesn't listen...

[markj]

The thing here is, you let him up on it, every thing you do with pup is a training moment. He learned it is OK to get up there, it will be very hard to break that now. Very hard to "untrain" the dog, but maybe get pup his own pillow and place it inside his crate. He may like that if it is comfy.

[halt3rtop]

well, since the post has been posted, dingleberry (as hes normally known as, bullet lol) hasn't gotten up on the couch. he stands next to me when i'm on the laptop and he just stares at me like "um, hey, yeah, i'm kinda sorta..." but before he can stare any longer i just tell him to get on his mat, and he does so. he seems content by the fire, and no grumpy moments since.
the whole "cripple walk", as some of you have discussed about...it's more of an "oooooh! but it's no much nicer out there!" types of walks. he's healthy and normal otherwise. he's just protesting like a kid does going into their room. haha!

[cjhills]

A short story:
I had a very nice English setter here to break him from being gun shy. His owner like him a lot and let him ride beside him in the cab of his truck. I don't do that. Every time I went to get in he would jump in first. I made him get out. About the third or fourth time he sat in the drivers seat and snarled at me. I grabbed his collar,slammed him on the ground and held him down until he gave up. I let him up talked to him a bit and we never had a issue. I hauled him on trips to SD and hunted over him with no problem.
His owner did not believe his sweet dog could do such a thing. He had never forced the issue with the dog and did not realize the dog had a problem. This dog was three years old at the time. Incidentally I was very lucky that I didn't get bit. I told him the dog was dangerous but he didn't believe. He had a water hauling business in the ND oil fields. The dog hung out in his shop and slept on the seat of the Bobcat. got along great with everbody. people brought him treats and took him hunting occasionally. This was a very well bred dog from a big name kennel. One day one of the shop mechanics needed to use the Bobcat. When he tried to get the dog out the dog went right for the man's throat with know warning. Luckily the guy got his arm up. but he was seriously bitten and the dog was put down immediately. This was two years after I had him and as long as he got his way he was a great dog. He was about five by then.
Moral of the story. put the smack down on aggression immediately. They are not furry little people and the slightest aggression will get worse if not dealt with. They don't out grow it and some very nice dogs can get aggressive if they are allowed too. They are just guarding their resources and they don't have human emotions. They are also a lot better equipped for a fight than you are.
Sorry, for the long post but take it seriously and deal with it if it happens again it may save you and the dog a lot of problems.............Cj

[GrayGhost]

A short story:
I had a very nice English setter here to break him from being gun shy. His owner like him a lot and let him ride beside him in the cab of his truck. I don't do that. Every time I went to get in he would jump in first. I made him get out. About the third or fourth time he sat in the drivers seat and snarled at me. I grabbed his collar,slammed him on the ground and held him down until he gave up. I let him up talked to him a bit and we never had a issue. I hauled him on trips to SD and hunted over him with no problem............Cj

I

I see this advice a lot on here and I've been following it on my own pup, I don't let any aggression go unchecked. My question is what follows this? Do you just go on with training or playing? Or ignore the dog for a time? I've taken a variety of approaches, but I'm curious what is most effective.

[cjhills]

I just go on like it never happened and it never happened again as long as I had the dog. I have never had a puppy take more than a couple times mostly it is for biting. I think if you manhandled him for every little thing it could back fire. Serious discipline needs to be for serious issues maybe only once or twice in a dogs life. Not for training. I firmly believe if the dog above would have been disciplined early it would have never been a issue. I also believe there are some things you can't allow some dogs to do. a little puppy growling over it's food is not cute. It might grow up to be a big dog growling over it's food. Dogs that live in a pack situation in kennels never have this issue.
Not trying to upset the OP but remember you have to be the top dog and if he don't think you are he will take the job cause in the dog world somebody has to do it. It is more about attitude and how you present yourself than what you say or do. I'm not sure I believe the theory that dogs are born alpha. I think who ever is willing to take the job gets it.
There may be dogs that are just vicious but in the gun dog world I have not seen it.
I do have issues with dogs that slink away when you give them a command. I want them to be happy but that may be genetic..........CJ