I'm back with big question
I'm back with big question
Well I haven't been on this forum for a while, last check in here I had decided to go on with training my mature English Cocker as my first gun dog.. Unfortunately she is no longer with us. I won't lie I had my time where I didn't want another dog at least not right away do to I felt she couldn't be just simply "replaced" and changing career fields in which I had spent the last couple months working 12 hour days 6-7 days a week. Chelsea and I never actually got to hit a field for hunting though her training did come along well in IMO for an older dog that had spent her entire life as a family lap dog. I had her finding quail and pheasant wings in our back lot. She was improving very well on her retrieving.. Now my work load has calmed down and I am ready to bring a new puppy into the home, and hopefully get into the field this fall.
With all that laid out my question is simply this: How do I decide if a flushing dog, or pointer/setter is right for me? I have searched threads on here and yet to find anyway to lay it out.
About me and my hunting- I have only owned/worked with one gun dog (the English Cocker). I have never upland hunted behind a dog so I guess "ease" of training would be a huge plus. Also I live in a neighborhood not in the country and have 2 smaller children, so I need/want a dog that is as much a family dog as a hunter.. I hunt/want to hunt wild quail, grouse. Also some game farms around here with pen raised pheasant and chukkar. I do hunt waterfowl and dove. Though my dog being good for those as well would be a plus but not a must, as all my waterfowl and dove hunting is done with my step father who has 2 labs which are trained solely as retrievers. As far as terrain I have places to hunt that range from Central Ky corn and soy fields that are 2-3 square acres separated by small tree lines-to-eastern KY mountains and hollars.
I would prefer a dog that works fairly close due to my lack of experience in handling a bird dog.. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
if it accounts for much the breeds I have been looking at in both are: English Pointers, Brittanys, English setters
& Labs, Springer Spaniels
-JB
With all that laid out my question is simply this: How do I decide if a flushing dog, or pointer/setter is right for me? I have searched threads on here and yet to find anyway to lay it out.
About me and my hunting- I have only owned/worked with one gun dog (the English Cocker). I have never upland hunted behind a dog so I guess "ease" of training would be a huge plus. Also I live in a neighborhood not in the country and have 2 smaller children, so I need/want a dog that is as much a family dog as a hunter.. I hunt/want to hunt wild quail, grouse. Also some game farms around here with pen raised pheasant and chukkar. I do hunt waterfowl and dove. Though my dog being good for those as well would be a plus but not a must, as all my waterfowl and dove hunting is done with my step father who has 2 labs which are trained solely as retrievers. As far as terrain I have places to hunt that range from Central Ky corn and soy fields that are 2-3 square acres separated by small tree lines-to-eastern KY mountains and hollars.
I would prefer a dog that works fairly close due to my lack of experience in handling a bird dog.. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
if it accounts for much the breeds I have been looking at in both are: English Pointers, Brittanys, English setters
& Labs, Springer Spaniels
-JB
Last edited by jbonesky on Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: I'm back with big question
I like German Shorthaired Pointers with that said it hard to beat a good Pointer most will have more range than your comfertable with. But once they are holding birds there is nothing better than topping a hill or going over a raise and seeing your dog standing a covey of quail or standing a grouse in a thicket waiting on you to make a flush
Re: I'm back with big question
GSP's seem to be very popular around here, during my browsing for breeders I tend to see a lot of GSPs and Setters close to me. Though I've read that GSPs seem to be a little more wound tight as young dogs then others? Did you find that to be the case, I'm wishing for a dog that can be an inside/outside dog and good with my children..S&J gsp wrote:I like German Shorthaired Pointers with that said it hard to beat a good Pointer most will have more range than your comfertable with. But once they are holding birds there is nothing better than topping a hill or going over a raise and seeing your dog standing a covey of quail or standing a grouse in a thicket waiting on you to make a flush
Re: I'm back with big question
Since you're going to be hunting both waterfowl and upland -- and want a 'family dog', I think it would be very difficult to do better than a Pointing lab.
Re: I'm back with big question
The real question here is what style of hunting are you comfortable with? Sounds like you are more comfortable with a dog under the gun and not a super hard charger. If that is the case, get the flusher. The pointing dogs are probably bred to run bigger than you are accustomed to...for the most part. I suppose a Pointing Lab could be a good solution. I think there are good ones out there, I just haven't seen much pointing out of the dozen or so I have seen, so do some research.
I'd take a look at Small Muensterlaenders...dynamite little dogs...closer working pointing dogs and excellent in the water.
I'd take a look at Small Muensterlaenders...dynamite little dogs...closer working pointing dogs and excellent in the water.
Re: I'm back with big question
They are wound a little tighter than most. I have two that split between house and kennel once your through the puppy phase they are like most all sporting dogs. If range is the most important thing for you a flushing dog would probably be best for you. But like I said in my post before in my opinion there is nothing better than walking over a hill too see your dog standing birds
Re: I'm back with big question
You're right, in the hunting style I think will fit me better, at least at my beginning stages here for the next few years. I don't think for now I'd be too comfortable with a hard charging dog, due to the small fields and some times tough terrain I have access to mixed with my lack of experience the thought of the dog being 100 yds plus out from me doesn't sound very good to me.JKP wrote:The real question here is what style of hunting are you comfortable with? Sounds like you are more comfortable with a dog under the gun and not a super hard charger. If that is the case, get the flusher. The pointing dogs are probably bred to run bigger than you are accustomed to...for the most part. I suppose a Pointing Lab could be a good solution. I think there are good ones out there, I just haven't seen much pointing out of the dozen or so I have seen, so do some research.
I'd take a look at Small Muensterlaenders...dynamite little dogs...closer working pointing dogs and excellent in the water.
Re: I'm back with big question
How far out from you do your dogs usually work?S&J gsp wrote:They are wound a little tighter than most. I have two that split between house and kennel once your through the puppy phase they are like most all sporting dogs. If range is the most important thing for you a flushing dog would probably be best for you. But like I said in my post before in my opinion there is nothing better than walking over a hill too see your dog standing birds
Re: I'm back with big question
Mine and most I hunt with adjust to cover. My older dog is an 80 yard dog. My younger dog is not broke yet but he has hit 300-400 yards in open cover and in the woods he is about a 100-150 sometimes closer. The older one was broke by someone that runs hunt test I can tell he has been hacked in for sometime every once in awhile he'll get out 120 yards or more then he'll turn back like I called him in
Re: I'm back with big question
what part of central ky. you at .pm me if you would like
- deke
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Re: I'm back with big question
I got a lab out of tiger mountain, one of the ones he would not guarantee to point; I was a little gun shy on "pointing" labs, but I liked how intense his dogs hunted. I could not be happier with my pup, he hammers pheasants, quail, and ducks all season long. The best part about him though is his off switch, in the house he is just a lazy dog that sleeps almost 20 hrs a day. He has been around kids and other dogs and I have never had to worry about him being to rough with any of them. If you are interested in one, give John a call.
Re: I'm back with big question
I take it He does point? How far out from you does he work?deke wrote:I got a lab out of tiger mountain, one of the ones he would not guarantee to point; I was a little gun shy on "pointing" labs, but I liked how intense his dogs hunted. I could not be happier with my pup, he hammers pheasants, quail, and ducks all season long. The best part about him though is his off switch, in the house he is just a lazy dog that sleeps almost 20 hrs a day. He has been around kids and other dogs and I have never had to worry about him being to rough with any of them. If you are interested in one, give John a call.
Let me also ask this. While I do plan on grouse, pheasant, and chukkar. Quail will be mainly what we hunt (the other 3 will only be a few times a year on trips) do certain breeds/flushers/pointers seem to excel with different species of birds?
- CDN_Cocker
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Re: I'm back with big question
All breeds will hunt em with no advantage necessarily. Pointing dogs seem to have become the most popular but I think you really need to think about the landscape in which you will mostly be hunting. I did a lot of research before settling on an English cocker. It just seemed to fit perfectly into what I wanted - versatile, good with kids, medium sized.... It just fit the bill. Choosing an English cocker meant having to travel a great distance to get one but for me and my family it just made sense so why settle for something closer. Why did I choose an ECS? Well, first of all I hunt a bit of everything - mostly grouse and woodcock, but will also go out for the odd waterfowl hunt or rabbit hunt. I'll start with rabbits - springers and cockers (cockers only won out over springers for me due to the smaller size which was a requirement of my other half's if I wanted another dog lmao). An ECS will get into the nastiest, thickest bush to push out game... I should rephrase that - an ECS thrives on getting into the nastiest, thickest bush. Of course, this is where rabbits are found. Next up - waterfowl. I am not a hardcore waterfowler, but I do enjoy going out a handful of times early in the season. I do not hunt big water - I hunt fields and ponds - perfect for an ECS. I do not think my guy would do well late season when it is colder and at 35lbs, battling big lakes probably wouldn't be ideal. However, an ECS can and will retrieve it all from teals to big Canada geese. Now I will get into my bread and butter and why an ECS was my choice (and also why a flusher was my choice over a pointer)... Grouse and woodcock. Cockers were made for these birds (especially woodcock, as that is where their name originates from). Cockers are small and have endless endurance with unbelievable noses and will get in every bit of cover there is. More than a few times this year my dog came home with a raw face as he doesn't back down from any type of cover. Where I hunt it is predominately thick bush and grouse here are very spooky and flush before you can get anywhere near em. Before the dog, I could never get a shot because they were always flushing 100 yards ahead of me. So why a flusher if its hard to get close to them? Well, its not that the birds were bursting into flight 100 yards away... a grouse will take off running before it bursts into flight. Chances are I was probably walking by them and they were taking off running ahead of me before finally spooking into flight. With a flusher they don't have time to run, they need to get up in the air. This is the primary reason I decided against a pointing breed. Where I hunt, its so thick and the birds are spooky. A pointing dog would be the same as me walking on my own - it would point and the bird would take off running before I got to it.
If you enjoyed your cocker I would suggest getting another one from strong hunting lines (or a springer) and dedicate to training it from the start. They have so much heart and style for a little dog and they truly are versatile and can hunt it all. I wouldn't trade mine for anything after just finishing our first grouse/woodcock season. He was just a pup, I can't imagine how incredible he will be with another season or 2 of experience under his belt. As an inexperienced pup he helped me put more grouse in the bag than I have got in the past 5 years altogether. Figure out the type of terrain you hunt most of the time, the game you pursue, and be honest with yourself... I am sure you will pick a great breed regardless of what you go with. Don't settle for something that isn't going to do exactly what you want. For me, that's an english cocker, but for you it could be a lab or a GSP or a setter. Good luck on your journey to a new pup
If you enjoyed your cocker I would suggest getting another one from strong hunting lines (or a springer) and dedicate to training it from the start. They have so much heart and style for a little dog and they truly are versatile and can hunt it all. I wouldn't trade mine for anything after just finishing our first grouse/woodcock season. He was just a pup, I can't imagine how incredible he will be with another season or 2 of experience under his belt. As an inexperienced pup he helped me put more grouse in the bag than I have got in the past 5 years altogether. Figure out the type of terrain you hunt most of the time, the game you pursue, and be honest with yourself... I am sure you will pick a great breed regardless of what you go with. Don't settle for something that isn't going to do exactly what you want. For me, that's an english cocker, but for you it could be a lab or a GSP or a setter. Good luck on your journey to a new pup
Re: I'm back with big question
Thank you very much CDN. You are right, 1st and foremost we will be chasing quail here, with the terrain being very versatile from fields to thick cover and thickets. The grouse, & pheasants will be more of a few times a year on special trips. I don't know that my ECS would have been my 1st choice if I would have been starting from a puppy before, I had such a good bond/love for her before we started training that made it more desirable. Not to mention the thrill of taking a dog from couch potato to finding wings and retrieving bumpers for the 1st time was a huge drive for me with her. My biggest regret is I never got to actually hunt her, so I never got the feel for hunting behind either type of bird dog.
Also a question for the people using flushers, Do any of you steady or hold the dog back before the flush? or is that something that isn't really practiced or a good idea for a dog that is bred to drive the birds out?
Also a question for the people using flushers, Do any of you steady or hold the dog back before the flush? or is that something that isn't really practiced or a good idea for a dog that is bred to drive the birds out?
Re: I'm back with big question
Certainly not a true statement. An honest pointing dog will hold'em until you get there, no matter the cover. Don't think cover has anything to do with a bird being spooky. If birds are running I'd prefer a pointer, they'll stretch out and pin the bird. If a flusher ranges out 100 yards its more than likely not going to wait for the hunter to arrive before it flushes the bird where an honest pointer will. Whether a flushing dog or a pointing dog it all depends on what level you want to train the dog to...steady flush, steady to flush and shot, etc....CDN_Cocker wrote: With a flusher they don't have time to run, they need to get up in the air. This is the primary reason I decided against a pointing breed. Where I hunt, its so thick and the birds are spooky. A pointing dog would be the same as me walking on my own - it would point and the bird would take off running before I got to it.
- CDN_Cocker
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Re: I'm back with big question
I think you missed my point. I'm sure the dog will hold em, that's what they're trained to do. However I don't think any dog has the ability to tell the bird to sit tight till its master gets there. I understand I'm in the minority, everyone on here has pointing dogs. My statements were purely my opinion. Where I hunt having a pointer hold a bird (if it did) wouldn't help much because I don't want to have to get in that stuff to push it out. That's why I got a dog - so I wouldn't be the one getting cut up in the brambles.rkappes wrote:Certainly not a true statement. An honest pointing dog will hold'em until you get there, no matter the cover. Don't think cover has anything to do with a bird being spooky. If birds are running I'd prefer a pointer, they'll stretch out and pin the bird. If a flusher ranges out 100 yards its more than likely not going to wait for the hunter to arrive before it flushes the bird where an honest pointer will. Whether a flushing dog or a pointing dog it all depends on what level you want to train the dog to...steady flush, steady to flush and shot, etc....CDN_Cocker wrote: With a flusher they don't have time to run, they need to get up in the air. This is the primary reason I decided against a pointing breed. Where I hunt, its so thick and the birds are spooky. A pointing dog would be the same as me walking on my own - it would point and the bird would take off running before I got to it.
Re: I'm back with big question
True...if a hunter is going to be in the "nasties" with a pointing dog, a dog that is steady is actually a disadvantage. But then you train your pointing dog to flush on command. This is done in FT all over Europe. Many Europeans can't understand why you wouldn't want your dog to flush the bird so that you are concentrating on the shot and not standing in the corn, cattails, etc. Trial dogs flush on command and then sit on the flush. AFTER my dogs are steady to WSF, and a couple of seasons later, I train them to flush on command. If you hunt alone, very useful.That's why I got a dog - so I wouldn't be the one getting cut up in the brambles
But why go all through that? You sound like a little ECS would be just the ticket...or almost any breed that can be trained easily to hunt close and maybe just give you a 5-10 second point to get in position. Had an English bred lab years ago....he hunted close....and when he got birdy, he almost always "froze" for just long enough for me to get in gunning position. he didn't point...he was trying to "sight" the bird...but it worked for me...and he was a pistol on ducks.
- deke
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Re: I'm back with big question
jbonesky wrote:I take it He does point? How far out from you does he work?deke wrote:I got a lab out of tiger mountain, one of the ones he would not guarantee to point; I was a little gun shy on "pointing" labs, but I liked how intense his dogs hunted. I could not be happier with my pup, he hammers pheasants, quail, and ducks all season long. The best part about him though is his off switch, in the house he is just a lazy dog that sleeps almost 20 hrs a day. He has been around kids and other dogs and I have never had to worry about him being to rough with any of them. If you are interested in one, give John a call.
Let me also ask this. While I do plan on grouse, pheasant, and chukkar. Quail will be mainly what we hunt (the other 3 will only be a few times a year on trips) do certain breeds/flushers/pointers seem to excel with different species of birds?
He will randomly point, I don't train for it though. He is very good on quail also, I would say better than pheasant. His nose is incredible and surprises me more and more every year, to keep him busy during summer time when I work in the yard I take a golf ball and throw it into a 3 acre patch of thick blackberries for him to fetch.
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Re: I'm back with big question
I am on my first gundog and he is still just a pup (6 months old) so I was in the same boat not too long ago researching every breed and trying to decide what to get. I had a list of about 7 breeds I wanted to try and I decided on a field bred English Springer Spaniel because it seemed to be exactly what I was looking for. I initially decided on a springer with the intention of trying out other breeds later on. Now I'm not so sure. I may be hooked on springers for life.
Realistically any of the major breeds will probably do just fine. GSP's seem to be the top choice around here and I can see why. They are great dogs with a lot of hunt in them. It just depends on what you prefer. It sounds like a flushing breed may be what you are looking for. There are a variety of flushers in all sizes from labs, cockers, boykins, chessies, and of course springers. Even if my springer were to never hunt a day in his life he is a fantastic family dog. Which is important for me since I can't (unfortunately) hunt 365 days a year. You mentioned springers as one of the breeds you are interested in. I am no where near an expert on the breed but I would be happy to try to answer any questions or at least share my experiences. Whatever you decide, I'd say just go with your gut and you won't go wrong with whatever you choose.
Realistically any of the major breeds will probably do just fine. GSP's seem to be the top choice around here and I can see why. They are great dogs with a lot of hunt in them. It just depends on what you prefer. It sounds like a flushing breed may be what you are looking for. There are a variety of flushers in all sizes from labs, cockers, boykins, chessies, and of course springers. Even if my springer were to never hunt a day in his life he is a fantastic family dog. Which is important for me since I can't (unfortunately) hunt 365 days a year. You mentioned springers as one of the breeds you are interested in. I am no where near an expert on the breed but I would be happy to try to answer any questions or at least share my experiences. Whatever you decide, I'd say just go with your gut and you won't go wrong with whatever you choose.
- nikegundog
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Re: I'm back with big question
Have you checked into Silver Pointing Labs?
- CDN_Cocker
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Re: I'm back with big question
LOL don't start that. Shoulda covered all bases and asked about silver British pointing labs lmaonikegundog wrote:Have you checked into Silver Pointing Labs?
Re: I'm back with big question
No I hadn't. Honestly I havent given much thought to pointing labs, due to a lot of mixed reviews and havent found any breeders close to here, as I want a fairly local breeder so that I can go see the pup etc. with this being my first time buying.nikegundog wrote:Have you checked into Silver Pointing Labs?
- CDN_Cocker
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Re: I'm back with big question
I think he was just being funny jbonesky. If you're looking for something silver that points get a Weimeraner. Don't get scammed by some backyard breeder selling "designer" labs
Re: I'm back with big question
Hahaha and that is why I come here
Re: I'm back with big question
"I would prefer a dog that works fairly close due to my lack of experience in handling a bird dog. : quote Jbonesky
Play it safe and get another spaniel or give yourself a challenge and get a setter. :)Very nice family dog too.
Play it safe and get another spaniel or give yourself a challenge and get a setter. :)Very nice family dog too.
Re: I'm back with big question
My wife and I set and talked about it for a while last night.. I think we've decided to go against my initial thinking and go with either a Brittany or a GSP. More than likley the Britt, I've found a couple local breeders that have Britts that supposably are close-mid range working dogs. I think that a pointer may be a help for me as far as natuarly stopping on birds.
Re: I'm back with big question
If you're uncomfortable with a hard charging dog then and you're considering a lab you should be careful to get the right breeding for your tastes. I've seen labs in the field that can be as hard charging as any breed.jbonesky wrote:You're right, in the hunting style I think will fit me better, at least at my beginning stages here for the next few years. I don't think for now I'd be too comfortable with a hard charging dog, due to the small fields and some times tough terrain I have access to mixed with my lack of experience the thought of the dog being 100 yds plus out from me doesn't sound very good to me.JKP wrote:The real question here is what style of hunting are you comfortable with? Sounds like you are more comfortable with a dog under the gun and not a super hard charger. If that is the case, get the flusher. The pointing dogs are probably bred to run bigger than you are accustomed to...for the most part. I suppose a Pointing Lab could be a good solution. I think there are good ones out there, I just haven't seen much pointing out of the dozen or so I have seen, so do some research.
I'd take a look at Small Muensterlaenders...dynamite little dogs...closer working pointing dogs and excellent in the water.
Re: I'm back with big question
Good choice but be careful where you get your Brittany. They can also be BIG running pointing breeds. My friend won an Open CH S .D. field trail /region 13 with his Brittany against a lot of fine pointers. You wouldn't want one from his breeding if you want a close working dog. See the parents work.jbonesky wrote:My wife and I set and talked about it for a while last night.. I think we've decided to go against my initial thinking and go with either a Brittany or a GSP. More than likley the Britt, I've found a couple local breeders that have Britts that supposably are close-mid range working dogs. I think that a pointer may be a help for me as far as natuarly stopping on birds.
- Pastor Brown
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Re: I'm back with big question
I also live in town, and have two young kids.
our GSP is wonderful!
our GSP is wonderful!
Re: I'm back with big question
Thats some of the biggest advice I've got. Thats why I'm trying not to rush in and look at/talk with different breeders of each breedSharon wrote:Good choice but be careful where you get your Brittany. They can also be BIG running pointing breeds. My friend won an Open CH S .D. field trail /region 13 with his Brittany against a lot of fine pointers. You wouldn't want one from his breeding if you want a close working dog. See the parents work.jbonesky wrote:My wife and I set and talked about it for a while last night.. I think we've decided to go against my initial thinking and go with either a Brittany or a GSP. More than likley the Britt, I've found a couple local breeders that have Britts that supposably are close-mid range working dogs. I think that a pointer may be a help for me as far as natuarly stopping on birds.
- Grousehunter123
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Re: I'm back with big question
I think for your situation as you describe it, I'd get a pointing lab....hands down.
- Wildirishman64
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I'm back with big question
In my experience with nervous birds. They don't wait long down here where I hunt. I've gotten as close as 2 yards to a pinned bird but this is the exception. My GSP will point but the bird decides to flush on his own. I tried to get this point across in my post this weekend but most don't agree. So I understand your point. No pun intendedCDN_Cocker wrote:I think you missed my point. I'm sure the dog will hold em, that's what they're trained to do. However I don't think any dog has the ability to tell the bird to sit tight till its master gets there. I understand I'm in the minority, everyone on here has pointing dogs. My statements were purely my opinion. Where I hunt having a pointer hold a bird (if it did) wouldn't help much because I don't want to have to get in that stuff to push it out. That's why I got a dog - so I wouldn't be the one getting cut up in the brambles.rkappes wrote:Certainly not a true statement. An honest pointing dog will hold'em until you get there, no matter the cover. Don't think cover has anything to do with a bird being spooky. If birds are running I'd prefer a pointer, they'll stretch out and pin the bird. If a flusher ranges out 100 yards its more than likely not going to wait for the hunter to arrive before it flushes the bird where an honest pointer will. Whether a flushing dog or a pointing dog it all depends on what level you want to train the dog to...steady flush, steady to flush and shot, etc....CDN_Cocker wrote: With a flusher they don't have time to run, they need to get up in the air. This is the primary reason I decided against a pointing breed. Where I hunt, its so thick and the birds are spooky. A pointing dog would be the same as me walking on my own - it would point and the bird would take off running before I got to it.
- CDN_Cocker
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Re: I'm back with big question
Yes, its a sensitive subject with pointing folks lmao. Birds here are very skittish so I am only speaking from my own experience but for me a flusher wins hands down. I do love the look of a pointing dog though - I'll have one some day.Wildirishman64 wrote: In my experience with nervous birds. They don't wait long down here where I hunt. I've gotten as close as 2 yards to a pinned bird but this is the exception. My GSP will point but the bird decides to flush on his own. I tried to get this point across in my post this weekend but most don't agree. So I understand your point. No pun intended
Re: I'm back with big question
So you make statements about pointing dogs and you don't own one? Come on at least own one and hunt behind it as much as you do your flusher before you start declaring the flusher the winner. :roll: As someone who owns and hunts both flushing and pointing dogs if the birds are as skittish as you describe the they will be just as hard to work with a flusher as a pointer.CDN_Cocker wrote:Yes, its a sensitive subject with pointing folks lmao. Birds here are very skittish so I am only speaking from my own experience but for me a flusher wins hands down. I do love the look of a pointing dog though - I'll have one some day.Wildirishman64 wrote: In my experience with nervous birds. They don't wait long down here where I hunt. I've gotten as close as 2 yards to a pinned bird but this is the exception. My GSP will point but the bird decides to flush on his own. I tried to get this point across in my post this weekend but most don't agree. So I understand your point. No pun intended
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Re: I'm back with big question
Unless you live in a part of KY where there are a ton of quail, it is hard to hunt wild quail with a flusher. I have done it , but since have seen the error of my ways. I personally like GSPs and pointers and have dogs that range from 100-400yds depending on the dog and the country.
As much as it pains me to say it.... I think you might be in the market for a Brittany. MOST of the Britts I have been around worked less than 150yds and were more often closer than that. More important than breed is the individual lines. Talk to breeders, be honest first with your self then with them about what you are looking for in a hunting dog. If you want a dog that will be a good house dog make sure they know that. I will say in my experience ANY dog that is bred for performance whether they are a hunting dog, herding dog, or other breed of working dog will be wound up as youngters. it is kind of the nature of the beast. Most will grow out of it to some extent but it may be 6mo to a year. It is nothing that can not be managed, but there will have to be consistency on everyones part.
Jim
As much as it pains me to say it.... I think you might be in the market for a Brittany. MOST of the Britts I have been around worked less than 150yds and were more often closer than that. More important than breed is the individual lines. Talk to breeders, be honest first with your self then with them about what you are looking for in a hunting dog. If you want a dog that will be a good house dog make sure they know that. I will say in my experience ANY dog that is bred for performance whether they are a hunting dog, herding dog, or other breed of working dog will be wound up as youngters. it is kind of the nature of the beast. Most will grow out of it to some extent but it may be 6mo to a year. It is nothing that can not be managed, but there will have to be consistency on everyones part.
Jim
Re: I'm back with big question
Still researching, talking with buddies, and other hunters. So for the sake of conversation in the versatile dog world:
Labs, if searching for a lab to use for quail, would you look specifically for a pup with an upland pedigree, or would you just look for a field pedigree even if it was full of duck hunting only ancestors?
Labs, if searching for a lab to use for quail, would you look specifically for a pup with an upland pedigree, or would you just look for a field pedigree even if it was full of duck hunting only ancestors?
Re: I'm back with big question
Well after pretty much being in a state of obsession over researching all the amazing gun dogs for the past month or so I have decided on an English or Llewelin Setter. So now It's on to finding the breeder/ litter I want a pup from. I made this decision wanting a hunting and family dog. I originally wanted a super versatile dog. But realized with my lack of training knowledge and experience just a bird dog would be a better choice. Even have half a mind to give field trials/hunt test a try if I can pull off the training to help him be at least an except able bird dog.
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Re: I'm back with big question
If I ever switch to a pointing breed an english setter is the choice I would make. Beautiful dogs.
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Re: I'm back with big question
Hope I am not to late to the discussion, but here are my two cents. It all depends on where you hunt and your age. I have hunted chessies most of my hunting life, I love the breed and still have one that I hunt with. As I got older, my ability to climb hills, cross creeks, and such, became just to much and the pups were flushing the birds wild. As I am 72 and still hunting, I changed breeds to a setter, a red setter to be exact. I am on my second red setter and love them.
Here is my chessie and red setter ( jenny ) hunting chukar. Choc hunts close and Jen out a ways.
Here is my chessie backing my red setter, I did not teach him that, he just watched her and after a while he started doing it himself.
So, if you are looking for a protector type pup, get a chessie, nobody gets into my truck if I am not there, or my home or messes with anything of mine. If a setter is more to your liking, try the red setters, you will find ( after they grow up ) a very loveable dog that is quiet in the house and a heck of a hunter.
Here is Jenny on point about 150 yds from me taken with a telephoto lens.
Here is my chessie and red setter ( jenny ) hunting chukar. Choc hunts close and Jen out a ways.
Here is my chessie backing my red setter, I did not teach him that, he just watched her and after a while he started doing it himself.
So, if you are looking for a protector type pup, get a chessie, nobody gets into my truck if I am not there, or my home or messes with anything of mine. If a setter is more to your liking, try the red setters, you will find ( after they grow up ) a very loveable dog that is quiet in the house and a heck of a hunter.
Here is Jenny on point about 150 yds from me taken with a telephoto lens.
Re: I'm back with big question
I do thank you for the input. I chose the Setter for several reasons, they have a reputation of being good family dogs, for me being new to dogs and bird hunting I feel like I'd be better with a pointing breed so I can position myself for the flush and shot. If my attempt at training goes well enough I'd like to try my hand at some small local trials (around here they seem to be either simply for pointers or retrievers) lastly I do think they are awfully purdy.grousehunter 61 wrote:Hope I am not to late to the discussion, but here are my two cents. It all depends on where you hunt and your age. I have hunted chessies most of my hunting life, I love the breed and still have one that I hunt with. As I got older, my ability to climb hills, cross creeks, and such, became just to much and the pups were flushing the birds wild. As I am 72 and still hunting, I changed breeds to a setter, a red setter to be exact. I am on my second red setter and love them.
Here is my chessie and red setter ( jenny ) hunting chukar. Choc hunts close and Jen out a ways.
Here is my chessie backing my red setter, I did not teach him that, he just watched her and after a while he started doing it himself.
So, if you are looking for a protector type pup, get a chessie, nobody gets into my truck if I am not there, or my home or messes with anything of mine. If a setter is more to your liking, try the red setters, you will find ( after they grow up ) a very loveable dog that is quiet in the house and a heck of a hunter.
Here is Jenny on point about 150 yds from me taken with a telephoto lens.
The breeder I believe I'll be buying from has helped me along with advice and breed info this past month or so, never once being one sided towards his dogs. Also offered trials help no matter the breed I chose. He has also told me they is only 2 of his 4 upcoming litters he'd sell to me from due to what I'm looking for as far as range etc. So I'm trustful when I bring one a pup home in will be the beginning of an awesome relationship both in the field and with the family.