Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

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Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Legband » Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:50 pm

If you live in California you had better take this seriously.
Subject: California: Anti-Hunting Groups Continue Pushing Radical Agenda
Take note of the 3rd bullet point on the agenda for this hearing, "Ban the use of dogs for the pursuit and take of ALL wildlife in California"! This was bound to come at some point in time in California and it will probably take some real horsepower to stop
Anti-Hunting Groups Continue Pushing Radical Agenda
Your Voice Must be Heard before the Wildlife Resources Committee Adopts Draconian Hunting Regulations.
California`s sporting heritage is under attack by animal "rights" extremists who want to ban all hunting, trapping and fishing. Just as the gun ban groups have tried to divide and conquer by targeting certain types of guns and gun owners, the animal “rights” extremist groups are targeting specific forms of hunting and are attempting to whittle away at your hunting heritage one step at a time. We cannot let extremists like Wayne Pacelle, CEO of HSUS, who is quoted as saying, "If we could shut down all sport hunting in a moment, we would," in the Associated Press, Dec. 30, 1991, continue to bully those in-charge of hunting regulations with their emotional and unscientific chatter.

NOW is the time for sportsmen to stand together and protect California’s hunting heritage and your chance to do so is Wednesday, January 15. The Wildlife Resources Committee, a subcommittee of the California Fish and Game Commission is having an open hearing on January 15, from 12:30 pm to 4:00 pm at the Van Nuys State Office Building Auditorium, 6150 Van Nuys Blvd., Van Nuys, 91401. This hearing is to consider numerous proposed amendments to hunting regulations that could fundamentally change how you may hunt in California. Listed below are some of the radical proposals being pushed:

Regulations for the implementation of the ban on the use of lead ammunition for all hunting in California.
Ban all bobcat hunting and trapping in California.
Ban the use of dogs for the pursuit and take of ALL wildlife in California.

It is CRITICAL that you spread the word to your family, friends and fellow sportsman and urge them to attend this hearing to OPPOSE these anti-hunting proposals. Whether you can attend the hearing in person or not, please call Fish and Game Commissioners Jim Kellogg and Jack Baylis at (916) 653-4899 or write them via fax at (916) 653-5040 or e-mail at fgc@fgc.ca.govand express to them your opposition.


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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Hattrick » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:18 pm

Thats crazy. I guess there is a worst state out there than MD

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by birddog1968 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:10 pm

Any state who would elect OweMalley or Pitlosi is in the tank anyway....things like this don't surprise me.

Instead of doing the work of the state that actually needs done they waste time with Freedom Killing stuff like this......

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:18 pm

So, is this the hearing on banning dogs for bear and bobcat in California and the generalized wording is creating the angst?

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by mtlhdr » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:41 pm

Mountaineer wrote:So, is this the hearing on banning dogs for bear and bobcat in California and the generalized wording is creating the angst?
Basically, yes. It's not a hearing, it's a committee meeting with no authority to change regulation (although they can recommend). The use of dogs for hunting bear and bobcats was banned last year and a group is proposing language to ban the use of dogs on all "wildlife" under the "use of dogs for hunting mammals"section of the regulations. Currently, dogs cannot be used to take bears, bobcats, elk, sheep, and antelope. The group is called Project Coyote and their goal basically it's too reduce the number of coyotes killed by hunting, trapping, etc.

That being said, HSUS has made California a high priority for their anti-hunting agenda and we will forever be beating back their that agenda.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Legband » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:51 pm

Mountaineer wrote:So, is this the hearing on banning dogs for bear and bobcat in California and the generalized wording is creating the angst?
Actually I think you can still run dogs on bobcat , bears went out last year as has been stated .
But I believe and have been told this group is out to ban all dog use for game.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by mtlhdr » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:09 am

Legband wrote:But I believe and have been told this group is out to ban all dog use for game.
I don't doubt it, it's just not explicitly stated on their website (which I know doesn't make it not true).

Here's part of the existing regs re the use of dogs; it precludes the use of dogs for taking of bobcat:

§265. Use of Dogs for Pursuit/Take of Mammals or for Dog Training.

(a) Prohibitions on the Use of dogs. The use of dogs for the pursuit/take of mammals or for dog training is prohibited as follows:
(1) The use of dogs is prohibited during the archery seasons for deer or bear.
(2) The use of dogs is prohibited for the take of bear, bobcat, elk, bighorn sheep and antelope.


They have proposed replacing bear, bobcat, etc with "all wildlife". But it's under the section pertaining to dogs and mammals, so it's confusing.

Regardless, the Commission must hear from folks that this is unacceptable.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by hyperb » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:01 am

The agenda and summary of comments is listed here: http://www.fgc.ca.gov/meetings/2014/jan/011514docs.aspx

The NRA is trying to raise money with that initial email they sent out. They have misrepresented the comments submitted by the Project Coyote group, which is only one of several groups that have submitted comments. The comment from this one group suggested restricting dogs in the pursuit of mammals and did not address birds.

After looking over their website It seems that this Project Coyote group spends a lot of time trying to getting leghold traps, snares, and cyanide bait off public lands. Honestly those traps and baits are something I worry about with my dog.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by birddogger » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:56 am

hyperb wrote:The agenda and summary of comments is listed here: http://www.fgc.ca.gov/meetings/2014/jan/011514docs.aspx

The NRA is trying to raise money with that initial email they sent out. They have misrepresented the comments submitted by the Project Coyote group, which is only one of several groups that have submitted comments. The comment from this one group suggested restricting dogs in the pursuit of mammals and did not address birds.

After looking over their website It seems that this Project Coyote group spends a lot of time trying to getting leghold traps, snares, and cyanide bait off public lands. Honestly those traps and baits are something I worry about with my dog.
Enough people with your mind set and we will lose ALL our outdoor sporting pursuits!!! Also, your comments about the NRA in this and other posts are absurd, as is your comments about moderators in other posts!!

Charlie

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Vision » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:07 am

California is a pioneering State for radical ideas to be implemented. Those ideals are then exported around the US. Through incrementalism they have advanced all kinds of animal rights legislation beginning in Cali and on to the rest of the US. This won't pass today but in a few years it will pass and then on to the rest of us.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Legband » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:34 pm

Vision wrote:California is a pioneering State for radical ideas to be implemented. Those ideals are then exported around the US. Through incrementalism they have advanced all kinds of animal rights legislation beginning in Cali and on to the rest of the US. This won't pass today but in a few years it will pass and then on to the rest of us.
You are so right , as go's California so go's the Nation
In do time !

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Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Frankug » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:01 am

That's scary. People should look up sportsman's alliance. They seem to cover hunting with dogs very well. They will vote us out if we don't stand up. Takes money though. The antis have tons of money.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by legallyblonde » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:22 am

I'll have to look into this more, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it actually considered in California. HSUS has been very successful with both their anti-hunting agenda and also anti-ag. A few years ago they got the ag issues on the ballot and WON. No more crates for pigs or cages for chickens--it all has to be phased out. Because that was so successful, getting these issues on the ballot is their new MO. Once it's on the ballot, we've lost. They turn it into a purely emotional issue decided by voters who are only seeing the sad images of animals and not the real story, or even both sides. Don't even get me started on how much they are twisting the wolf issue here in Michigan already before they've even gotten it on the ballot.....

And I very much second the US Sportsman's Alliance. They are a fantastic group! I am legal counsel for UKC, and I've worked with them on past issues, including the bear and bobcat ban in CA. They are one of the best groups out there for fighting HSUS and the other anti's and I highly recommend getting involved with them.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by hyperb » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:11 pm

Before we get all exercised all I'm saying is actually take a look at the agenda and language. The original message that started this string did not accurately reflect what is going on. These are just comments from rights groups that didn't even address birds. I encourage us to offer our own comments, but make sure they are informed ones. Offering vague comments that do not reflect what is being discussed will hurt our cause, not help it.

And I know by far I'm not the only hunting dog owner who worries about my dog stepping into a trap or chews cyanide bait on public land.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:23 pm

hyperb wrote: I encourage us to offer our own comments, but make sure they are informed ones. Offering vague comments that do not reflect what is being discussed will hurt our cause, not help it.

And I know by far I'm not the only hunting dog owner who worries about my dog stepping into a trap or chews cyanide bait on public land.
You mentioned trapping one other time and I am not sure what connection you are trying to make. Are you thinking trapping should be done a way with/

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:42 pm

ezzy333 wrote:You mentioned trapping one other time and I am not sure what connection you are trying to make. Are you thinking trapping should be done a way with
I did a small amount of trapping years ago when fur was worth something and now when I look back on it and think about it I do think many would see it as a bit cruel or just not necessary. I have nothing against a trapper who is responsible and does it right but I prefer to hunt animals I can make a meal of.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by hyperb » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:45 pm

From what I've read of the agenda, I don't think this hearing has anything to do with trapping. I only mentioned trapping because I went to check out the Coyote Project site and it says they are against trapping on public land.

My own opinion is that trapping seems ill-advised on public lands where you have people and dogs, unless it's done by the state fish and game officers to achieve some sort of measurable resource objective. We pretty much got rid of market hunting because it was hurting game populations, only makes sense that we apply the same kind of thinking to market trapping.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Legband » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:47 pm

hyperb wrote:From what I've read of the agenda, I don't think this hearing has anything to do with trapping. I only mentioned trapping because I went to check out the Coyote Project site and it says they are against trapping on public land.

My own opinion is that trapping seems ill-advised on public lands where you have people and dogs, unless it's done by the state fish and game officers to achieve some sort of measurable resource objective. We pretty much got rid of market hunting because it was hurting game populations, only makes sense that we apply the same kind of thinking to market trapping.
I'm not a trapper.
But I couldn't disagree more.
Beavers as fur bearers as well as coyote's , raccoons , and almost every other predator are out of control.
And this is wiping out our ducks, geese , quail and many other upland birds.
Not to mention one less usage of public land .

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by hyperb » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:05 pm

There are certainly situations when you get into a "predator pit", where there are too many predators going after a plummeting prey population. The research I've seen on this usually cites these predators being subsidized by some other healthy prey species that maintains the predators when the hurting prey species number drops (often this subsidizing prey species are livestock, sheep, etc, but not always).

Legband, I know we have a problem with mule deer here in CA (and throughout the West), which has been pinned on everything from coyotes to climate change, but do you have any links to share from CA Game and Wildlife showing overpopulations of these other species? I'm not opposed to being wrong (my wife appreciates that), but I just want to see the research.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by birddogger » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:40 pm

Internet links, for the most part mean nothing, since you can find find many links to support one's views, regardless of what side you are on.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Legband » Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:10 pm

hyperb wrote:There are certainly situations when you get into a "predator pit", where there are too many predators going after a plummeting prey population. The research I've seen on this usually cites these predators being subsidized by some other healthy prey species that maintains the predators when the hurting prey species number drops (often this subsidizing prey species are livestock, sheep, etc, but not always).

Legband, I know we have a problem with mule deer here in CA (and throughout the West), which has been pinned on everything from coyotes to climate change, but do you have any links to share from CA Game and Wildlife showing overpopulations of these other species? I'm not opposed to being wrong (my wife appreciates that), but I just want to see the research.
Perhaps I'm more suspicious than most but at this time I think most of the anti predator hunting info is bogas
My buddy runs dogs for ranchers that have large predator problems and what he sees in the field is amazing
The number of deer killed by cats is amazing and many of the kills wasted , even though studies show the cats only kill to eat the truth is they also kill because they enjoy the chase .
I finally got the ok from the owners of one of the duck clubs I manage to allow the same guy to run his dogs in the tulles on raccoons.
He caught 40 coons in a 30 acre pond I didn't think that was possible , but this guy is a straight shooter.
Delta waterfowl has some realistic data on predators I don't have the link.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by hyperb » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:02 pm

Wow. I believe that raccoon stuff. We've got them in the neighborhood, and pretty much everyone else does. I watched 9 of those suckers come out of my sister's chimney one time.

I did research on cats for a little while. They will kill when given the opportunity, but nearly always will come back to the site for the meal. Unless they've gotten into a livestock pen, and then all bets are off. Ironically the best way to manage cats and coyotes is with... wolves. In Yellowstone the wolves have knocked down the cat and coyote population, which has meant the pronghorn pop has gone up (coyotes are expert antelope fawn finders). I'd love to have some more pronghorn in CA, now THAT is a hunt. Truly amazing critters.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by GrayGhost » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:34 am

I think like has been said on this forum before that as sportsman we need to stand together. But I think the real issue with a lot of people and trapping is just ignorance. This last weekend I had my first experience of being around and seeing traps while we were out chukar hunting, and because of my ignorance in the habits and practices of trappers I did feel a little nervous having my dog running around out there. I'm sure that someone who hasn't spent there whole life around guns and hunting like I have might feel nervous walking around the woods during hunting season the same as I did knowing there were traps out there. What did help was that we ran into some of the trappers on the mountains and talked to them for a little while, they gave me little knowledge of what and how they do. Its probably the same, as hunters we need to help others understand what we do so they can feel the same level of comfort that we do whether they hunt or not. With all that said I still wasn't all that excited when I found a trap less than 3 feet off of well worn trail.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by RayGubernat » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:00 pm

Guys -

Perhaps it might make a positive impact if someone would go to that meeting and mention that such a ban might just put their Federal wild life funding at risk. I suspect California gets a significant amount of Pittman-Robertson funding and goodness knows how much from other sources within the US Fish and Wildlife, Interior Dept., Agriculture Dept., etc. I betcha it is a whole lot of money from a whole lot of places.

It might also help to point out that there will no longer be the need for the same number of wildlife conservation officers and other allied civil servants such as those who process dog and hunting licenses. The reduction in hunters would of course, necessitate a draw down in the number of civil servants who operate in that area.

If the local and state government agencies are made to understand that such a ban will have an immediate and deleterious effect on their financial well being and even their ability to maintain their current employment... you might discover that a well entrenched bureaucracy can be a powerful ally.

RayG

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by rockyridge kennels » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:49 pm

hyperb wrote:. Ironically the best way to manage cats and coyotes is with... wolves. .
I'm not sure WY and MT Ranchers would agree with that statement :?: :?:

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:14 pm

GrayGhost wrote:I think like has been said on this forum before that as sportsman we need to stand together. But I think the real issue with a lot of people and trapping is just ignorance. This last weekend I had my first experience of being around and seeing traps while we were out chukar hunting, and because of my ignorance in the habits and practices of trappers I did feel a little nervous having my dog running around out there. I'm sure that someone who hasn't spent there whole life around guns and hunting like I have might feel nervous walking around the woods during hunting season the same as I did knowing there were traps out there. What did help was that we ran into some of the trappers on the mountains and talked to them for a little while, they gave me little knowledge of what and how they do. Its probably the same, as hunters we need to help others understand what we do so they can feel the same level of comfort that we do whether they hunt or not. With all that said I still wasn't all that excited when I found a trap less than 3 feet off of well worn trail.
I agree with your concern with traps and that is my main concern especially hunting the 2nd season for birds. I haven't run into any traps or trappers yet but that doesn't mean they aren't there, I could just be lucky. I know there are fox and lots of coyotes where I hunt but I also believe that trappers are scarce because I have not seen one nor have I found any activity of such.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:28 pm

Foot hold traps are no big deal,I have had dogs caught in them & never had one injured yet,you can set them off on your hand & it is not going to break bones let alone cripple you.Trappers have the right to trap just as we do to hunt heck if everything that some one doesn't like was done away with we would all be setting on our butts all the time.Regardless of what it is some body or some group is against it.
I think we need more trappers to keep predators down.I use to go with my dad when he trapped before I was even in school,never had the predator problems we have now.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:03 pm

I certainly agree at least where coyotes are a concern. But I think there is a real decline in trapping because the fur prices are not what they used to be and trapping actually requires a lot of work and xbox players are just not conditioned to that kind of work.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:33 pm

Bounty_Hunter wrote:I certainly agree at least where coyotes are a concern. But I think there is a real decline in trapping because the fur prices are not what they used to be and trapping actually requires a lot of work and xbox players are just not conditioned to that kind of work.
Amen

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by hyperb » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:09 am

I just read this saying prices are pretty high right now, I'm not sure that's why there are fewer trappers. http://trappingtoday.com/high-fur-prices-in-the-media/

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:52 am

I have been out of trapping more then 20 years now and you are right prices seem to have gone back up but when I trapped red and grey fox and coyote a good pelt went for 50 to 60 $ but gas was not $ 3.50 to $4.00 a gallon either and when you calculate all of the time and other expenses that are needed to trap most will tell you its just a hobby not a source of income. Having said that it can be exciting and something I would like to do is trap beaver because the meat is said to make great stew and the tail meat is said to be equilavent to bacon. Never ate any but would like to try it.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:06 am

Saw something interesting on the national news this morning, just caught the tail end of it but it had to do with a predator and to be exact a mountain lion. Seems he has been terrorizing a neighborhood. Not sure which state but residents say they are missing pets but Fish and Wildlife cant do anything about it because mountain lions they are protected by state law. Hmmm...

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by ultracarry » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:23 am

^ think we are the only state with them over populated and protected . Have had one attack my brothers horse and all over here. Difference is DFG will shoot them if they are an issue. Cats and dogs are missing all the time due to coyotes (have a pack of 8+ running up and down the wash behind my house every night. They do a good clean up of loose dogs and cats.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by hyperb » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:37 pm

A good book on cats and people is "Beast in the Garden" from a couple years ago. Takes a look at some communities around Colorado where a cat killed a teenager.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:57 pm

ultracarry wrote:^ think we are the only state with them over populated and protected . Have had one attack my brothers horse and all over here. Difference is DFG will shoot them if they are an issue. Cats and dogs are missing all the time due to coyotes (have a pack of 8+ running up and down the wash behind my house every night. They do a good clean up of loose dogs and cats.
I can understand cats and smaller dogs being a good target for coyotes but I cant imagine that a larger breed of dog say a lab or even a GSP would be bothered by coyotes. We have a good population of coyotes here in PA but I have not heard of many issues concerning pets. I have heard of fox taking house cats a while back but for the most part I think our forest lands have plenty of food which keep them away from urban areas.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by ultracarry » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:48 pm

I have a feeling you are underestimating the strength if a pack of coyotes.... Pretty sure they wouldn't have a problem talking out a Great Dane or pit bulls. CAtrapper on here or brazosvizsla has done some trapping in ca and can prob tell you a story involving large dogs and coyotes

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:12 pm

ultracarry wrote:I have a feeling you are underestimating the strength if a pack of coyotes.... Pretty sure they wouldn't have a problem talking out a Great Dane or pit bulls. CAtrapper on here or brazosvizsla has done some trapping in ca and can prob tell you a story involving large dogs and coyotes
I don't doubt you and I have read that in some of our western states even black bears climb trees to avoid coyote packs. I have seen them close up in traps and they are mean critters, its just hard to believe living where I do that they could be so aggressive but if they are coming into populated areas and dining on pets then its time to do some hunting.

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Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Frankug » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:36 pm

I was unaware of Yotes running in packs? Seen two together but that is the most. Seen a group of pups and mom. Thinking a pack of coyotes does not happen? They are not wolves, which do run in packs. Still don't like them! Just wondering? If they did why wouldn't they set like six foot holds per bait site versus just one. Just never seen a pack. I have heard what sounded like a pack, but never seen it.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:12 pm

I have never seen a pack either but like you have seen lone ones or a pair, but at our deer camp in rural PA you can hear them at night especially in mid winter and they are certainly in groups and not just one or two. If food is scarce I guess their only option is to hit the urban areas for cats and dogs but why are they protected in CA?

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Frankug
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Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Frankug » Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:21 pm

Got a guy trapping my farm right now. After talking to his friend today, he says he does set multiple footholds per bait site. I haven't caught up with him yet (the trapper), but I am going to see what he thinks. Most of the trappers I have met are some of the best woodsman I have come across. Don't want them to outlaw anything. I hear there are some great dog hunters in California especially lion and bear hunters. If they are at risk then we all are. I raise cattle and just thankful I don't live out west where the government thinks it is a good idea to reintroduce wolves in my backyard. I fear poison in the woods especially with my dogs. I'm down with trapping but not for poisoning. I'm down with trapping my land. I don't hunt much public land. If I thought there were traps on the public land I was going to hunt, then might not hunt there. If I feared poison I would not even think of hunting there. Terrible to see your dog go through that. Read "Meet Mr. Grizzly", one of the all time best hound hunting books. True story. All dog hunters should read it.

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ultracarry
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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by ultracarry » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:27 am

Shoot a message to brazosvozsla or catrapper on here. He has years of experience with our coyote population in Southern California.
Also lion and bear hunting with dogs are now illegal so no more good lion or bear hunters in the state. Maybe Arizona and Nevada now.... Lions have been protected for a while. First year for bears was last year.

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GrayGhost
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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by GrayGhost » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:07 am

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:Foot hold traps are no big deal,I have had dogs caught in them & never had one injured yet,you can set them off on your hand & it is not going to break bones let alone cripple you.Trappers have the right to trap just as we do to hunt heck if everything that some one doesn't like was done away with we would all be setting on our butts all the time.Regardless of what it is some body or some group is against it.
I think we need more trappers to keep predators down.I use to go with my dad when he trapped before I was even in school,never had the predator problems we have now.

Thanks for that information, like I said it my nervousness was all do to ignorance of an unknown, trapping, when in reality I had little reason to be nervous. I agree, we all have a right to be there and if we treat each other with respect we'll all be a lot happier co-existing together.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by birddogger » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:11 pm

GrayGhost wrote:
Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:Foot hold traps are no big deal,I have had dogs caught in them & never had one injured yet,you can set them off on your hand & it is not going to break bones let alone cripple you.Trappers have the right to trap just as we do to hunt heck if everything that some one doesn't like was done away with we would all be setting on our butts all the time.Regardless of what it is some body or some group is against it.
I think we need more trappers to keep predators down.I use to go with my dad when he trapped before I was even in school,never had the predator problems we have now.

Thanks for that information, like I said it my nervousness was all do to ignorance of an unknown, trapping, when in reality I had little reason to be nervous. I agree, we all have a right to be there and if we treat each other with respect we'll all be a lot happier co-existing together.
And be more successful in protecting our outdoor pursuits. We must stand together!!

Charlie

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gonehuntin'
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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by gonehuntin' » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:20 am

You better believe coyote run in packs. around here you will commonly see and hear 6-8 hunting together. in the winter they group to make the hunting more effective. i was in Yellowstone one winter and a ranger told me they'd seen packs of up to 80 working the elk.

Last person I worry about in the woods is a trapper. unless killer snares are legal and 330's on land. If a dog gets in either of those it's a dead dog.

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Pastor Brown
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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Pastor Brown » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:03 am

I was told this is not just a california thing..

I believe connecticut, & maryland are also trying similar things...

Thank God for the people on the coasts.. their doing such a great job running their states & economies; they are able to help us simple inlanders run our... :)

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:53 am

gonehuntin' wrote:You better believe coyote run in packs. around here you will commonly see and hear 6-8 hunting together. in the winter they group to make the hunting more effective. i was in Yellowstone one winter and a ranger told me they'd seen packs of up to 80 working the elk.

Last person I worry about in the woods is a trapper. unless killer snares are legal and 330's on land. If a dog gets in either of those it's a dead dog.
Again I don't doubt you just never witnessed it in PA, unless our population is not what other states have. Like I said I do hear them at night at our camp and it sounds like a symphony but never see more then 1 or 2 at a time. I walk around after it snows a lot too and still the same track wise, single or 2 together. Seeing 8 work to bring down an elk would be awesome though, you did mean 8 didn't you?

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Pastor Brown
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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Pastor Brown » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:11 am

we have TONS TONS TONS of yotee's here in ND, & BIG... a lot bigger than I have seen in other states..

and they are pack hunters... but I too have never seen mores than 2-4 together, nor have I tracked more than a few in a group after a fresh snow

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Grange
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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Grange » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:39 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:You better believe coyote run in packs. around here you will commonly see and hear 6-8 hunting together. in the winter they group to make the hunting more effective. i was in Yellowstone one winter and a ranger told me they'd seen packs of up to 80 working the elk.

Last person I worry about in the woods is a trapper. unless killer snares are legal and 330's on land. If a dog gets in either of those it's a dead dog.
220 conibear traps are set on land and they will kill a dog even if legally set, as my father almost found out.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:49 pm

Pastor Brown wrote:we have TONS TONS TONS of yotee's here in ND, & BIG... a lot bigger than I have seen in other states..

and they are pack hunters... but I too have never seen mores than 2-4 together, nor have I tracked more than a few in a group after a fresh snow
We can hunt coyotes all year long in PA but I never see anyone hunting them except for some volunteer hose co.s in February. It's a pool like $50.00 to enter and the biggest gets the pot. I think they get some around the 50lb weight class. I never called in a coyote but did call in fox a few times for fun, mostly greys.

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Re: Hearing to Ban all Hunting Dogs in California

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:25 am

Grange wrote:220 conibear traps are set on land and they will kill a dog even if legally set, as my father almost found out.
A friend of mine used to use them to trap beaver but always in under water sets. I could see them being dangerous on land, especially to dogs. And since trappers use bait or lures to attract animals to the set that makes it all the more worrisome.

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