A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

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SCT
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A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by SCT » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:19 pm

I've got a young bitch (2 years old), never been bred, that I am going to breed this summer and was wondering about false pregnancies. My question is, if a female has a false pregnancy after a regular heat cycle, would it be assumed that she had a normal ovulation cycle to have a false pregnancy?? Or, can they have a false pregnancy without previously ovulating normally??

Thanks,

Steve

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by rinker » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:33 am

I do not consider myself a breeder, but I have raised several litters of puppies over the years, and I'm going to raise one this year as well. I think that you are over thinking the whole thing. When she comes in to heat, breed her. If it isn't a complete cycle then she either will not accept the male at all, or she won't conceive. If it is a complete cycle, then you will probably have a litter of puppies.

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by SCT » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:52 pm

That's what I do, I over-think everything. In this case I have to drive her a long way and then after she's bred I have to drive back and get her. It's going to cost me $500 or so for gas and 'bout that for stud fee. Just looking for someone with technical knowledge like a veterinarian that specializes in such things. My assumption would be that she is having a normal ovulation since she does have these false pregnancies. But, you're right, I will be making the trip either way :)

Thanks for your answer though rinker.

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by Fun dog » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:06 pm

False pregnancy is not all that common and generally happens with dogs that haven't been bred, but think they are. It often takes longer for a dog to recover from false pregnancy than it would take to recover from raising pups. If your dog is prone to false pregnancy I would not breed her and get her spayed. If the dog is not prone to false pregnancy, I would breed her and expect a nice litter of pups.

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by birdogg42 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:23 pm

What breeding are you looking to make?

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by mountaindogs » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:41 pm

I think you'll have to call the vet for details but if you are traveling and time is an issue you might have the vet run progesterone tests on her. I do not believe false pregnancies usually alter the anestrus time but my only experience with it was decades ago.

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:03 pm

I have never heard where false pregnancy has anything to do with normal reproduction. It is normally caused by hormones and certain dogs seem to run into that problem.

Ezzy

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by hi-tailyn » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:43 pm

False Pregnancy is more of a pain than a problem. They don't usually alter their normal cycle from one heat to another.

Having to deal with possible mastitis or pyro are the things to watch for.

You will be able to breed her normally after going through a false pregnancy. I have done it a couple times. No problems. They seem to be even more attentive mothers.

If your female does it very often, and you are not going to breed her, and it becomes a problem then you might think about spaying her.

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by SCT » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:57 pm

Thanks everyone. Yes, she is 2 and never been bred, but this was her 2nd false pregnancy. This one lasted 30 days, the last one lasted 40 days. I was told to either breed her or spay her. I won't spay her until she's older, so I am going to breed her. I would have been breeding her anyway on this next cycle. Her heat history tells me she will come back into heat in 13 weeks.

My bitch is Branscum's Calamity Kate and She will be bred to Touch's Match Point if all goes well. Both pedigrees are on perfectpedigrees.com.

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by Frankug » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:32 pm

So i have a female that has had lots of false pregnancies. i bred her twice. Had trouble with tumors, probably should of spayed, could of avoided that. I was told by a vet that a false pregnancy is actually part of the heat cycle. I can not regurgitate verbatim maybe there is a vet on here that can. The part we see is about 21 days, but it actually is a longer cycle. Like 6 weeks or something. The false pregnancy is post the visible cycle, then no embryos, but cycling like there were. Out of all the females that I have (8) I don't remember it disrupting the time frame between heats. Can't say factually though, just trying to remember. I have never been told by a vet it would be a reason to not breed. I have never noticed a prolonged recovery from a false pregnancy. Once again just me. A vet on here may say something totally different. I am not a Vet. Talk to yours.

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by Frankug » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:34 pm

I am not a breeder either, just have lots of dogs.

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by rinker » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:32 pm

If I was going to pay a large stud fee and travel a substantial distance, I would not breed a young female that had never been bred before. Not all female dogs are good mothers. Some are difficult to get bred and some just do not do a good job raising puppies. It might be too late before you find out.

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by SCT » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:26 am

Well rinker, gotta breed her at some point and there's no stud dog locally that I like, and seeings how nobody on here knows of any problems caused by false pregnancy, then I will gitterdone and hope for the best. Already have people wanting pups out of her so now is as good a time as any.

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by rinker » Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:07 am

I understand, and it will probably work out perfectly. You just stand a little greater chance of dropping $1,000 or so for nothing, than if you had a female that had been bred a few times and raised litters of puppies.

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by KwikIrish » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:23 pm

Steve,
In my expierence, false pregnancies either happen or they don't. The only way to assume a normal cycle is to track the progesterone and lh surge. The falsie has no indication of anything except she knows she went in season and now she thinks she is pregnant. I can't imagine why someone would spay a bitch for that reason....
Good luck with your breeding, and well done selecting a sire of quality and not something local solely because it has testicles and can point.
Last edited by KwikIrish on Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by SCT » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:41 pm

Thanks Kwik, I agree it is a tough, but important decision on which male to use for her. She has everything that I want in a pointer, except she's on the small side, and this male matches up very well, and he's on the large side. If she has a nice healthy litter then I can use her for years to come.

Steve

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by Peter » Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:09 pm

Short answer: A flase pregnancy occurs after a normal ovulation, and will not affect the next ovulation.

Long answer: Directly after a female goes outof estrus, a female goes into diestrus. During this time, a female has a spike in progesterone (the hormone of pregnancy), regardless if the female is bred or not. During this time the female is either in a period of pregancy if bred or pseudo pregancy if not. As the progersterone starts to fall, a bred female and a female that will exhibit signs of false pregancy (or overt pseudo pregancy), will begin to devolop mammary tissues and nesting habits. Other unbred females will simply clear and move into the period of anestrus until her next heat cycle. ( This is a bare bones description and other hormones such as dopamine and prolactin play into this) This does tell us that a normal cycle has occured and that the next ovuation has the potential to be succesful.

Peter

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by SCT » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:01 pm

Exactly the answer I was looking for. Thank you Peter.

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by kninebirddog » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:36 am


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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by Meller » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:38 am

[quote="SCT"]Thanks Kwik, I agree it is a tough, but important decision on which male to use for her. She has everything that I want in a pointer, except she's on the small side, and this male matches up very well, and he's on the large side. If she has a nice healthy litter then I can use her for years to come.
That's a big If; What if she don't, what did you see in her training when you were breaking her that make's you think she's worth breeding?
If shes had false pregnancy's before, not even been bred;just doesent make sense to me.

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by SCT » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:44 pm

Meller, it's actually not a BIG if at all. You can look at the peds I posted the link to and see they match up on paper, assuming you know the lines. You're welcome to come out and run/hunt HER with me and see her style running and on point. You can also check out her conformation while you're here. You can see how extremely smart she is and check out her ground speed and bold personality. You could also see what an easy keeper she is around the house etc, etc. You cannot see what an early starter she was, pointing and holding birds until I got there at a young age. I didn't break her, but she was steady to wing and shot in a very short time and before she was two. I'd say she handled it very well. And, besides matching up on paper, the stud (from what I've heard from many sources) is a hard driving, very stylish dog running and on point. He's an AF horseback Champion Shooting Dog on the prairies. Won't know what the puppies will be like without giving it a shot.

Your sentence about false pregnancies is the thing that doesn't make sense. Too bad you couldn't find something to ad to the thread.

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by Meller » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:13 pm

If she has never been bred, why is she having false pregnancy. just does"nt make sense to me. If never been bred before why is her body telling her that she is going to have puppies. You talked about her being small is her chest cavity going to be big enough to have the puppies? As far as matching up on paper , that can be crap shoot till proven, if she has never been bred the end result is unknown. Hey you ask the question!

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:17 pm

False pregnancy has nothing to do with being bred or not it has to do with hormones. :roll:

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by Meller » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:41 pm

Something caused the imbalance in the dog to cause the hormones to go out of wack, either upstairs or downstairs, we are talking about a never bred dog here. :)

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Re: A question for breeders about false pregnancy?

Post by wems2371 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:59 pm

False pregnancies are quite normal according to my vet and from what I've read. I'd have to check my yearly records, but I believe my female had 3 of them prior to my mating her at 4 years old. She had 7 puppies with no problems. Her falsies were a matter of getting thick in the flank, puffiness of her mammaries, and she liked to carry around a stuffed toy. I believe I was able to squeeze a drop of milk out, although she never got as big as some dogs do with a falsie.

http://www.vcahospitals.com/main/pet-he ... -dogs/1059
What is meant by false pregnancy?
False pregnancy, phantom pregnancy, pseudo-pregnancy or pseudocyesis are all terms that refer to a display of maternal (mothering) behavior combined with the physical signs of pregnancy following estrus ("heat") in a female dog that is not actually pregnant. A false pregnancy may occur in a dog, regardless of whether or not she was mated. The majority of intact female dogs will show some signs of false pregnancy after an estrus cycle.

What are the signs of false pregnancy and when do they occur?

Symptoms of false pregnancy usually begin four to nine weeks after the previous heat period, and mimic the symptoms of true pregnancy. The more common signs of pseudo-pregnancy include mammary gland enlargement with or without the production of milk, lethargy, periodic vomiting, and fluid retention. The female often has a decreased appetite but seldom appears to lose weight, probably due to the amount of excess fluid she retains.

These symptoms can occur at any age and do not necessarily follow every estrus. The severity of the clinical signs varies between individuals and may vary from one cycle to the next in the same dog.

Behavioral changes of pseudo-pregnancy include nesting, mothering activity, restlessness, decreased interest in physical activity and occasionally even aggression. Some affected dogs will show signs of a false labor and then protectively guard toys or other small objects.

Why do these symptoms occur?

After the female dog has an estrus cycle, her ovaries begin to produce hormones, regardless of whether she is pregnant or not. These hormones prepare the uterus to receive the fetuses and maintain pregnancy. If the dog is pregnant, the hormones will continue to be produced until shortly before the puppies are born. If she is not pregnant, the levels of the hormones begin to decline after 4-6 weeks. In the early stages, the increased levels of circulating hormones cause changes that mimic pregnancy. As the hormone levels decline in the non-pregnant dog, they send signals to the body that stimulate false labor and mammary gland development. The reason that these hormonal changes occur in the non-pregnant dog remains a mystery.

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